2010 Team Universe

[lvtolft]

The term "natural" seems to be more of an objective term than anything else.  Drugfreeforlife seems to adhere to the more strict sense of what natural means where you also have Flex Wheeler claiming he is a natural freak.  If you believe you are natural that is all that matters.  Anyone else who says your not is jealous and they normally don't look as good.

[Krankenstein]

The term "natural" seems to be more of an objective term than anything else.  Drugfreeforlife seems to adhere to the more strict sense of what natural means where you also have Flex Wheeler claiming he is a natural freak.  If you believe you are natural that is all that matters.  Anyone else who says your not is jealous and they normally don't look as good.

Exactly....I am sure there are those that take it so far to the extreme that protein powder consumption isnt natural.  Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF? 

[Van_Bilderass]

Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen  only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective as real steroids your a fool.
What are you guys going to say next? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."
The bible says "Dont point a speck of dust in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in your own"
You guys might want to read that pasage.People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol

I'm sorry but you are a fucking retard. You can't even define what a "real" steroid hormone is. And you brag about your high IQ?  

Natural is what is sold legally over the counter? It can't be a "real" steroid if its' sold over the counter. What a joke. DHEA is a fucking steroid hormone whether you think so or not. As long as it's sold over the counter any synthetic man made steroid hormone is completely natural.  

The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.

It's not so plain and simple. Considered natural by who? Not according to the orgs drugfree4life competes in. Who agrees with your definition? Who? Give me an example of a sporting org which claims it's a natural and drug free org and allows anything which is legal. The bottom line is that pretty much NO ONE agrees with your definition of natural.

[Van_Bilderass]

Exactly....I am sure there are those that take it so far to the extreme that protein powder consumption isnt natural.  Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF?  

I think the whole term "natural bodybuilding" is a joke. But since you carry the banner of "drug free for life" so proudly yet think synthetic man made hormones are completely natural and not drugs, as long as they're legal and not very effective, it makes me wonder why you even compete in so called natural shows. Actually I know why, you're not good enough to compete with the honest guys who don't bother with all this natural crap.

[GetItOnNY]

Curt this argument is really stupid,,,I cant believe that people are even questioning Androstene, and DHEA when there are scum bags like Delino Dixon who won the MuscleMania World then lost his job because he failed a preemployment drug test.True story.I knew Delino Dixon for many many years.He was a 180-190lbs naturally lean muscular black guy.Then he disappears for a few years, and comes back weighing an amazing 230 lbs on stage.His arms were 21" and his traps were friggin huge.He swears up and down he is natural, but I know he wasn't, I knew people who sold him stuff.
How he lost his job.He worked at Bally's casino as a 21 dealer, and when the Paris Hotel opened next door he wanted to transfer, because it was better money.Now I know for a fact that Bally and the Paris, test for steroids, because my friend who was a Craps dealer was going to do the same thing, but he was on a cycle at the time, and didn't want to risk his job by coming up dirty on the drug test.Well Delino being Mr so called Mr Natural , did fail his preemployment drug test, for having anabolics in his body.I know someone in human resources, who showed my the pink slip.
So how embarrassing is that?? Whats even more pathetic, was I competed in that show, and got 4th in the pro division.I missed my peak because Lou Zwick, the scum bag, changed the prejudging date from Friday to Saturday, but only told his "key' athletes.He didn't sell as many tickets as he thought, so he changed the prejudging date.I didn't find out until I got there, at the weigh ins.
So I already carb loaded, cut my water, and was ready to step on stage Friday.To this day, I am still upset.
I would say about 60% of the athletes looked off, but all Lou Zwicks favorites like Tito Raymond and Delino Dixon looked great because he called to tell them he changed the prejudging day.You cant change the prejudging day, and not tell people the day of prejudging, especially if they are natural.Its not like we can take a diuretic.I was so pissed, my body released cortisol and I was way off......
But who could blame me?
Anyways, after I found out Delino lost his job, because he failed the drug test 2 weeks after the show, I decided to call Lou Zwick and tell him.I think if someone fails a drug test, they should have there title pulled from them.I am not a narc, but the guy failed a drug test for godsake!!!!!!All Lou Zwick said, was I will look into it....Nothing ever happened....
The funny thing is Musclemania randomly drug tests there athletes right??? They only tested the urine of 2 guys a novice lightweight, and a novice Bantamweight.Not one open guy got tested!!!!!
I cant believe we are arguing about Androstene, when there are so many athletes like Delino Dixon using fuc%$# gear and entering natural shows.To me there is nothing worse then a scum bag who goes into natural shows full of drugs!!!!

[nolotil]

Exactly....I am sure there are those that take it so far to the extreme that protein powder consumption isnt natural.  Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF? 

you still dont get it? your not natural and what the guy above wrote (lvrolft) is absolute rubbish. im not jealous at all.

you took hormones thus you arent natural. not only that you have a nickname that is hypocritical. but i already wrote this, but you wont listen so i have nothing further to say. you and getionny are just talking alot of rubbish. i dont believe a word that getionny writes. im out. there is nothing more to discuss.

[Van_Bilderass]

John, are you saying this Wiki entry of DHEA is wrong?

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is an endogenous[1] steroid that has been implicated in a broad range of biological effects in humans and other mammals. Together with its sulfate ester (DHEA-S), it is the most abundant steroid in humans.[citation needed] DHEA is produced by adrenal glands, but also synthesized de novo in the brain.[citation needed] It acts on the androgen receptor both directly and through its metabolites, which include androstenediol and androstenedione, which can undergo further conversion to produce the androgen testosterone and the estrogens estrone and estradiol.[2] DHEA is also a potent sigma-1 agonist.[3] It is considered a neurosteroid.[2]

How the fuck does it act on the steroid receptors directly? It's not a steroid according to noted biochemist John DiLauro!

[GetItOnNY]

Van, your post is so idiotic, I wont even reply.Van your a waste of space, my IQ is 4 times yours.....I forgot more about bodybuilding then you will ever know !!!
Your just a internet troll who hides behind his mother computer, and cut and paste Patrick Arnold's Info to make yourself seem smart.

[Krankenstein]

I think the whole term "natural bodybuilding" is a joke. But since you carry the banner of "drug free for life" so proudly yet think synthetic man made hormones are completely natural and not drugs, as long as they're legal and not very effective, it makes me wonder why you even compete in so called natural shows. Actually I know why, you're not good enough to compete with the honest guys who don't bother with all this natural crap.

And you are good enough to compete with the "honest" guys who dont bother with all this natural crap?  I would bet any money you wouldnt find 10 guys who did nationals this year who would admit to even 50% of what shit they are taking.  And you call them "honest".  Will you be honest and tell everyone what you take?

[Van_Bilderass]

Van, your post is so idiotic, I wont even reply.Van your a waste of space, my IQ is 4 times yours.....I forgot more about bodybuilding then you will ever know !!!
Your just a internet troll who hides behind his mother computer, and cut and paste Patrick Arnold's Info to make yourself seem smart.

You won't reply because you can't reply. You pretend like you're some type of biochemistry expert while it's painfully obvious to anyone reading you know next to nothing about the subject at hand.

You're so smart no one else in the world knows what you know, which is that DHEA isn't a steroid hormone. A steroid hormone is something that will take John's body weight to 280lbs. That should be the dictionary definition of a steroid hormone.

The current definition is wrong:

Steroid hormones are steroids that act as hormones. Steroid hormones can be grouped into five groups by the receptors to which they bind: glucocorticoids, mineralocorticoids, androgens, estrogens, and progestagens. Vitamin D derivatives are a sixth closely-related hormone system with homologous receptors, though technically sterols rather than steroids.

[Krankenstein]

you still dont get it? your not natural and what the guy above wrote (lvrolft) is absolute rubbish. im not jealous at all.

you took hormones thus you arent natural. not only that you have a nickname that is hypocritical. but i already wrote this, but you wont listen so i have nothing further to say. you and getionny are just talking alot of rubbish. i dont believe a word that getionny writes. im out. there is nothing more to discuss.

Melt-fucking-down.  Arent you the guy who is supposedly like 270lbs+ and eats like 3 meals a day when he "diets down"?  Riiight

[GetItOnNY]

Van, the more you post the dumber you appear.Yes DHEA is a hormone.So Van what your saying is if a guy takes 400MG of DHEA, he will get the same gaines he will on 400 mg of Testosterone.......No he wont.He might just go bald from the DHEA because it raises DHT levels, but thats about it.Van i what your saying is correct why doesnt every bodybuilder in the Mr Olympia just use DHEA, since its such a powerful Steroid, lol.I met some stupid people in my day, but Van you take the cake,lol
Van,,,,, your such a Jack ass......The Jack ass award goes to Vanbiledasshole, lol

[timfogarty]

What are you guys going to say next? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."

The key here is intent.  If you took a supplement because it may allow you to make gains over what you could make without it, then you're not a natural bodybuilder.

People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol

It's perfectly ok to take performance enhancing drugs.  It's hypocritical to do it and claim to be natural.

[timfogarty]

Heres a question.....should a competitor who is say 50+ yrs old...on HRT from his doctor be allowed to compete in the WNBF?  

No.  It's against the rules as stated by the WNBF.

[Method101]

If you take any substances which are on the banned list for the olympics then you are not natural.

End of discussion.

[timfogarty]

Van, the more you post the dumber you appear.Yes DHEA is a hormone.So Van what your saying is if a guy takes 400MG of DHEA, he will get the same gaines he will on 400 mg of Testosterone.

it has nothing to do with the amount of gains you may or may not make.   drug free bodybuilding is just that, free of all drugs.  if you're going to market yourself that way, yet don't follow that rule, then don't be surprised when you're called a hypocrite or liar.

[Van_Bilderass]

So Van what your saying is if a guy takes 400MG of DHEA, he will get the same gaines he will on 400 mg of Testosterone.......

That's what I'm saying? Really?

Is 400mg of Proviron as effective as 400mg of Test? No? Oh, I guess Proviron isn't a drug, is completely natural, is a prohormone and not an anabolic steroid.

A steroid is something that takes John's bodyweight to 280lbs. If it only adds 5-10lbs it isn't a steroid. Look it up, that's what the dictionary definition is of a steroid hormone.

You are such a retard. 

[GetItOnNY]

Listen....I started this thread, so I am going to finish this thread.I was a natural bodybuilder for 16 years.
Natural= Anything available over the counter, that is not" laced' or Spiked" with steroids!!!
I formulate supplements, and trust me, there is no supplement in the world, that is even 10% as good as real steroids.
So to say a person who takes supplements, is not natural is stupid !!!!!
Trust me, I know.The most I ever gained from a supplement is 5lbs.Should Rogaine be banned to?? I gained 5lbs from that!??
My first cycle of Anabolics I gained 30 lbs.How can you compare gaining 5lbs from a supplement to gaining 30 lbs on anabolics??
You cant!!!!!! If it isnt banned by the FDA, and is not illegal, its should be considered natural.Trust me even if you took 1000 mg of Androstene you wouldnt gain more then 5 lbs.
We should be more worried about guys entering natural shows on gear, then woryying about natural guys using a prohormone that might contain DHEA....oH WAIT Van thinks DHEA is as strong as testosterone,lol......
The bottom line is this supplements will NEVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH STERODS EVER !!!

[Krankenstein]

No.  It's against the rules as stated by the WNBF.

Actually.....they can, and they have.  Method101....we arent talking about the Olympics.

[Van_Bilderass]

Listen....I started this thread, so I am going to finish this thread.I was a natural bodybuilder for 16 years.
Natural= Anything available over the counter, that is not" laced' or Spiked" with steroids!!!
I formulate supplements, and trust me, there is no supplement in the world, that is even 10% as good as real steroids.
So to say a person who takes supplements, is not natural is stupid !!!!!
Trust me, I know.The most I ever gained from a supplement is 5lbs.Should Rogaine be banned to?? I gained 5lbs from that!??
My first cycle of Anabolics I gained 30 lbs.How can you compare gaining 5lbs from a supplement to gaining 30 lbs on anabolics??
You cant!!!!!! If it isnt banned by the FDA, and is not illegal, its should be considered natural.Trust me even if you took 1000 mg of Androstene you wouldnt gain more then 5 lbs.
We should be more worried about guys entering natural shows on gear, then woryying about natural guys using a prohormone that might contain DHEA....oH WAIT Van thinks DHEA is as strong as testosterone,lol......
The bottom line is this supplements will NEVER BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH STERODS EVER !!!

I think DHEA is as strong as Test? Can you fucking read?

Hey, I once took three 2mg Zambon Winstrol tabs a day and didn't gain jack shit. Was I natural?

When are you going to define what a steroid is? Oh wait, a steroid makes John's weight shoot up to 280lbs, that's the definition. Primo, Winny, Anavar, none of that shit is steroids. Steroids = trenbolone and test, that's it. Maybe Anadrol too.

[timfogarty]

We should be more worried about guys entering natural shows on gear, then woryying about natural guys using a prohormone that might contain DHEA.

sports organizations should follow their own rules.  what rules they set is up to them.

the issue here is individuals marketing themselves.  if you claim to be life time drug free, then you better never have taken a drug with the intent of athletic performance enhancement.

[Krankenstein]

sports organizations should follow their own rules.  what rules they set is up to them.

the issue here is individuals marketing themselves.  if you claim to be life time drug free, then you better never have taken a drug with the intent of athletic performance enhancement.

So...by your definition, is someone who has never taken a prohormone but has used caffeine in their contest prep considered drug free?

[GetItOnNY]

Tim, I respect your opinion, but Jesus was the only person who ever walked on water,lol.
As far as Natural bodybuilding goes, I think they should be able to use anything that is legal and not banned by the FDA.
Trust me, I don't care how many Androstene ,DHEA, Tribulus, or Longfolia you take, its not going to make much of a difference.
You guys are acting Like DHEA and Androstene are like steroids, lol.They both aren't even 5% as strong as a good steroid.
Curt your natural,because the Androstene you took wasn't even real anyways, most weren't.
I cant believe you guy are beating this already dead horse.....If you don't know the difference between a supplement and a steroid....Stop going to the gym, and go buy a gun and shoot yourself in the head, because your brain dead...
I don't care how cutting edge supplements get, they will never ever ever be even close to the real thing.
With the exception of Muscltech, I mean they are above and beyond all supplements!!! Especially there hardcore line....
It is actually what Jay used to win the Mr O title.
 ;On a serious note,Jay did use a certain persons Waxy Maze for his contest prep

[temper35]

John DiHomo benches 405 for 15 reps while on Halotestin.  If John DiHomo benches 405 for 17 reps while on 1000mg of Test, he is natural while on Halo.

One thing he will not do is take the deadly Ultram because it is a silent killer.  Nevermind the Halo...ULTRAM WILL DESTROY YOUR SOUL!!!!

[GetItOnNY]

Temper there is always one bad apple out of the bunch.Calling me a homo, and making fun of me because I was trying to help people not get addicted to Ultram.Because Doctors
 are writing prescriptions for a pain killer and telling people not to worry, its non habit forming and non addictive.Then it ruins there lives.
I come on this board to educate and inform people with intelligent knowledge.
You come on this board, and act like a 12 year old, and belittle people so you can feel better about yourself.Temper why you don't post a pic of yourself, so we can see what a pathetic, bitter loser looks like.I bet your probably not even 175lbs, and your 35 years old living with your mother.In her basement.You tell all your friends, the few you have, its my house, I am letting my mom stay with me, lol.Temper its so nice of you to let your mom live upstairs in your house, while you stay in the basement....Thats very generous of you.....lol
Temper your a typical internet loser who sometimes ruins boards, because people like me would never associate ourselves with you in real life.You also discourage people from wanting to post on the boards because they don't want to deal with the negative people such as your self....Temper god bless, you, I hope one day, you find happiness, so your wont be such a fool and lash out at others, to make yourself feel better