This will be my last thread on the issue.

[che]

not really. how much muscle mass you are able to retain at low body fat % is governed by genetics. 

That's what we are talking about here (muscles ), in Auschwitz they were all shredded ,but .......

[wes]

Wave is right,but I still prefer to follow a more structured plan as it helps me to stay organized and focused.

I also believe in eating cleran to get ripped,especially as you get older.

If you are 18 with a fast metabolism,you can eat everything and stay ripped to the bone.

[WillGrant]

For anyone who wants to get ripped and never has achieved it since:

You only need to follow 3 simple rules:

- eat enough protein (about 1g / lb of lean body mass a day).
- perform intense anaerobic training.
- reduce calories to lose about 1-2 lbs a week.

I guarantee anybody who does that for long enough to get ripped to shredds. Forget about books, fitness trainers, and "gurus". They are all bullshitters who want to steal your money. The whole industry is just a bunch of liars and crooks.

This is basic stuff and true but the fact is you = full of shit when it comes to dieting on takeaways and junk food 

[che]

Wave is right,but I still prefer to follow a more structured plan as it helps me to stay organized and focused.

I also believe in eating cleran to get ripped,especially as you get older.

If you are 18 with a fast metabolism,you can eat everything and stay ripped to the bone.

Wes , Do you believe that  a  200 cal piece of chocolate (candy or beer )  has the same effect in your muscles  than a 200 cal piece of sweet potato ?
I don't.

[nolotil]

Wave is right,but I still prefer to follow a more structured plan as it helps me to stay organized and focused.

I also believe in eating cleran to get ripped,especially as you get older.

If you are 18 with a fast metabolism,you can eat everything and stay ripped to the bone.

i dont think wave is saying that the diet necessarily has to be unstructured.

as for the clean vs dirty food...wont get into that as i know you have your very firm opinions     but i will say that no one is saying you should diet on only soda and mcdonalds food. and you can certainly get totally shredded even if you include 'dirty' food in your diet..i have done this many times and so have people i have helped.

even if your  47 years old you can include for example ice cream into your diet and get ripped as long as you keep track of calories.

[nolotil]

Wes , Do you believe that  a  200 cal piece of chocolate (candy or beer )  has the same effect in your muscles  than a 200 cal piece of sweet potato ?
I don't.

plz dont use that kinda logic. because no one has claimed that. every time a thread such as this pops up someone mentiones that..but no one has said to base you diet on chocolate.

[wes]

Che,no I don`t beleive in "The Adonis Principles" !! 


If you eat garbage,you`re gonna` look like garbage regardless of cals or training.

[nolotil]

Che,no I don`t beleive in "The Adonis Principles" !! 


If you eat garbage,you`re gonna` look like garbage regardless of cals or training.

wes..whats the adonis principles?

and i havent seen anyone on here saying you should base your diet on garbage. come on wes 

please dont make it into an either or debate.

[che]

plz dont use that kinda logic. because no one has claimed that. every time a thread such as this pops up someone mentioned that..but no one has said to base you diet on chocolate.

Wave likes to eat junk food on his diet ,for him all carbs are the same.
He doesn't say nothing about carbs here :- eat enough protein (about 1g / lb of lean body mass a day).
                                                             - perform intense anaerobic training.
                                                             - reduce calories to lose about 1-2 lbs a week

[wes]

The Adonis Principles were started by board member and friend "The True Adonis" who stated that you can get ripped eating anything as long as there is a calorie deficit.......kinda` like what Wave says in a way.

I`m not beating this dead horse with you again nolotil,don`t worry bud!! 

[che]

Che,no I don`t beleive in "The Adonis Principles" !! 


If you eat garbage,you`re gonna` look like garbage regardless of cals or training.

Thank you.
 
Do you know that Wave support the Adonis principles ?

[wes]

Yes,and I don`t agree with it.......I agree with the calorie deficit part,but clean bodybuilding foods make a huge difference in your physique.

On a sidenote,the lack of a fucking quote function sux!!! 

[nolotil]

i think you should avoid all kind of extremes. no..not all calories are the same but waves initial post is still correct.  

for example eating only empty sugars as a carb source is not smart during a diet but yes in theory you can diet on table sugar and protein shakes. but who does that in real life? no serious bodybuilder does that.

[che]

Yes,and I don`t agree with it.......I agree with the calorie deficit part,but clean bodybuilding foods make a huge difference in your physique.

On a sidenote,the lack of a fucking quote function sux!!! 

Exactly ,  losing weight and losing fat aren't the same thing.

[che]

i think you should avoid all kind of extremes. no..not all calories are the same but waves initial post is still correct.  

for example eating only empty sugars as a carb source is not smart during a diet but yes in theory you can diet on table sugar and protein shakes. but who does that in real life? no serious bodybuilder does that.

You are getting smarter Nolotil 

[wes]

Che,we are finally converting nolotil into a person who makes good sense!

I go waaaay back with Wave and Adonis and they`re both friends,but their stuff won`t work for me.

[nolotil]

Exactly ,  losing weight and losing fat aren't the same thing.

both require a caloric deficit. and no one has in this thread said that you should base your food intake on chocolate.

che why are you making this into an extreme debate. lets say you need 2500 calories to be weight stable and choose to diet on 2000 calories...and you have at the eaten 1750 calories and have eaten adequate protein..do you think it will matter if the next 250 calories come from ice cream or oatmeal? and notice no one is saying ONLY eat ice cream. answer: it wont.

[The Showstoppa]

I just bought two pairs of these......should be totally ripped in no time.

[nolotil]

You are getting smarter Nolotil 

no im saying exactly same thing as before  

just that you interpreted my post with 'extreme version glasses'....because it makes the debate easier for you  

[wes]

We`re not debating,just teaching!! 

[nolotil]

We`re not debating,just teaching!! 

and im trying to teach you too..

i think this is a case of:

you do A+B+C and get D but in reality its only A that really makes you get D...B+C are not important. i call it factor confusion. 

clean vs dirty food is kinda weird debate as it should never be an either or situation.

[che]

We`re not debating,just teaching!! 

I'm done

[nolotil]

I'm done

yes me too..im out. i think the positions are locked 

[myt1]

Yes,and I don`t agree with it.......I agree with the calorie deficit part,but clean bodybuilding foods make a huge difference in your physique.

On a sidenote,the lack of a fucking quote function sux!!! 

Why the hell can't you and some others qoute?  It makes following what you're saying tough.

I agree with you.  I think maybe there's more of an ability to let a calorie be a calorie when you're TA's age at the time he went off about that.  I think most of us over 30 have learned that does not stay true.  (Being on a ton of gear would except that)  

Anyway, to me it only makes sense that when you are hitting weights, cardio, and diet to lean out that a gram of protein outweighs the value of a gram of a simple sugar carb.  Personally, I used to eat a grilled stuft steak burrito and a steak gordita from TB every single day on top of my other meals and I had abs.  I continued that past 31-32 and ended up with an ab.  Trying now to get back to my normal look, and it hasn't been ez at all

[wes]

I agree my friend.

The quote function has been srewed up for a while now for some of us.

Happy holidays bro.

I`m out too!!