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Author Topic: Layne Norton - 765 Band Deficit Deadlift.  (Read 6903 times)
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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2010, 02:19:07 PM »

Layne in da` hizouse!!
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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2010, 04:18:35 PM »

Matt, the point of bands is to more specifically train up higher in your movement.  Say if you have a sticking point at the midpoint, by increasing the weight, you can train the top, stronger portion - but you need to get it up there, so you need bands to offset the increased strength required.  It really depends on where you stick.  I don't stick atall, either it moves off the floor and I finish it or it doesn't move atall, so you could argue that I should either conventional deadlift or do deficits to try to get my starts more effective.

Layne's combo there is that he's effectively training his start range (ie, using a deficit) AND at the same time trying to train his finish range .  It's an interesting way of training.
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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2010, 05:26:30 PM »

Matt, the point of bands is to more specifically train up higher in your movement.  Say if you have a sticking point at the midpoint, by increasing the weight, you can train the top, stronger portion - but you need to get it up there, so you need bands to offset the increased strength required.  It really depends on where you stick.  I don't stick atall, either it moves off the floor and I finish it or it doesn't move atall, so you could argue that I should either conventional deadlift or do deficits to try to get my starts more effective.

Layne's combo there is that he's effectively training his start range (ie, using a deficit) AND at the same time trying to train his finish range .  It's an interesting way of training.

Should I buy a pair?  My one rep max deadlift attempt on Saturday will be 440 @ 175 body weight.
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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2010, 05:29:01 PM »

Should I buy a pair?  My one rep max deadlift attempt on Saturday will be 440 @ 175 body weight.
175? wtf, still recovering from the adonis principles eh?  Grin
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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 05:59:02 PM »

I've just come to accept that I do not have genetics for gaining mass.  It simply is what it is.  The main reason for this is because I feel satiated off 1,800 calories each day.  I can even consume as few as 1,200 calories per day and not feel hungry - beyond 1,800 is force feeding for me.  I believe it is my appetite more than anything that is really stalling my gains but I also decided that I would rather just consume low calories for health reasons.  Of course I would love to be 205 pounds and in the same condition, but I'm not sure how realistic that would be in the long term, or if it would even be possible for me without steroids at all.  My strength is reasonable though:

http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/showpost.php?p=46993&postcount=30

The pin squats are only from the sixth pin so the range of motion is around 14" for me.  I would like to try 675 next week with a belt but no chalk.  I will deadlift 425 and see how I feel and from there I will go 435-445, likely 445 depending on how I feel.

I will be proud once my deadlift reaches 500.

You are a strong dude matzi, but you will always be a tiny tit
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« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2010, 06:19:39 PM »

I think the answer to that question is in what you think about my explanation of the point of bands.  However, I would say, not yet.

What has been finally working for me and that is not deadlifting in the very low 1-2 range every week, trying to get stronger that way.  That is fine exploiting gained strength, ramping up to going and doing a single at a meet and so forth, but the problem for me with the lower rep range is that it simply requires so much initial concentration and committment that even a slight bit of bad back angle, poor prep, lack of committment, heat, etc and you're not going to doing as well as you did last week and you're going to be discouraged.

Trying to iteratively ramp up using 1 rep sets is difficult.  Whereas if you back it off a bit and shoot for 5-6 reps, you can warm into a set, as opposed to having to be very much 100% on it from the outset.  So much of this is mental, so adding an extra rep on top of the 4 you got last week, to get 5 is far more likely than managing to get it all right on the +2.5kg (or whatever) you're going for with a single.

More than anything, with deadlifts, you have to do it every week and you have to red face it every single time.  If you want to get stronger above a certain value it will undoubtably be the toughest lift you do every week.

Groinkypoo might laugh at Powerlifters but when it comes to deadlifting and squatting, they prove that twinks can get way stronger than bodybuilders would have you believe.  I think you should check out your local powerlifting meet and reevaluate what you think you might be capable of.  It might just be you're training wrong.
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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2010, 06:20:09 PM »

I've just come to accept that I do not have genetics for gaining mass.  It simply is what it is.  The main reason for this is because I feel satiated off 1,800 calories each day.  I can even consume as few as 1,200 calories per day and not feel hungry - beyond 1,800 is force feeding for me.  I believe it is my appetite more than anything that is really stalling my gains but I also decided that I would rather just consume low calories for health reasons.  Of course I would love to be 205 pounds and in the same condition, but I'm not sure how realistic that would be in the long term, or if it would even be possible for me without steroids at all.  My strength is reasonable though:

http://www.ilovepsam.com

The pin squats are only from the sixth pin so the range of motion is around 14" for me.  I would like to try 675 next week with a belt but no chalk.  I will deadlift 425 and see how I feel and from there I will go 435-445, likely 445 depending on how I feel.

I will be proud once my deadlift reaches 500.
fixed. and outed.

what are you benching now?
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2010, 06:22:28 PM »

You are a strong dude matzi, but you will always be a tiny tit
We are waiting for Team Nasser to chime in.
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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2010, 06:23:12 PM »

You are a strong dude matzi, but you will always be a tiny tit

Yes, this is true.

And to be honest, I see 445 coming up this week NO PROBLEM.  I honestly think I will be doing 525 soon enough and not break 175.

Having said that, I think most on this board do not want to be pro size but would like to be big.  For me, I think 205 would be phenomenal.  It's not realistic, but I never really wanted to be pro size [obviously, it's not like that was going to happen anyway], but wanted large size but not too large to create disadvantages in daily life.  200+ is not exactly small if it's fairly lean muscle.
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2010, 06:24:30 PM »

I think the answer to that question is in what you think about my explanation of the point of bands.  However, I would say, not yet.

What has been finally working for me and that is not deadlifting in the very low 1-2 range every week, trying to get stronger that way.  That is fine exploiting gained strength, ramping up to going and doing a single at a meet and so forth, but the problem for me with the lower rep range is that it simply requires so much initial concentration and committment that even a slight bit of bad back angle, poor prep, lack of committment, heat, etc and you're not going to doing as well as you did last week and you're going to be discouraged.

Trying to iteratively ramp up using 1 rep sets is difficult.  Whereas if you back it off a bit and shoot for 5-6 reps, you can warm into a set, as opposed to having to be very much 100% on it from the outset.  So much of this is mental, so adding an extra rep on top of the 4 you got last week, to get 5 is far more likely than managing to get it all right on the +2.5kg (or whatever) you're going for with a single.

More than anything, with deadlifts, you have to do it every week and you have to red face it every single time.  If you want to get stronger above a certain value it will undoubtably be the toughest lift you do every week.

Groinkypoo might laugh at Powerlifters but when it comes to deadlifting and squatting, they prove that twinks can get way stronger than bodybuilders would have you believe.  I think you should check out your local powerlifting meet and reevaluate what you think you might be capable of.  It might just be you're training wrong.
good post, and good to see you making serious posts about training.

I assume you're just a recreational lifter? do you use much variation in your deadlifts?
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2010, 06:30:46 PM »

Yeah, I don't see the point in really discussing that much training on this board.  There isn't really a massive amount of science needed to most lifts.  However, deadlifts are a bit of a pet project that I've got involved in, so if I can learn anything about them, I'm interested.

I don't vary my deadlifts, yet because I know I have a fair bit left in me with conventional stuff.  The only variation I'm doing at the moment is what I do as a supplementary exercise.  I'm still a twink in my own eyes.  I did a set of deficits in last workout of the year a few weeks back and I can see how they are quite useful, though.
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2010, 06:40:06 PM »

Cool.. what i found helped me the most of fixing up my form and finding an optimal stance/grip through practice.
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2010, 06:43:20 PM »

Joe Lanier said that bands were the #1 technique to increase strength and he's no weak sauce.
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2010, 07:25:39 PM »

fixed. and outed.

what are you benching now?

260 for 10.  I would put my bench at 325 for sure, hard to say how much more, depends on the day.  My max ever was 345.
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