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muscleman-2013
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« on: October 23, 2014, 02:05:07 AM »

Project MKULTRA, The CIA's
Program Of Research In
Behavioral Modification
JOINT HEARING
BEFORE THE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON
INTELLIGENCE
AND THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
HEALTH AND SCIENTIFIC
RESEARCH
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HUMAN
RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
NINETY-FIFTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
____________
AUGUST 3, 1977
Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Intelligence
and Committee on Human Resources
 
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON: 1977
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office
Washington, D.C. 20402
Stock No. 052-070-04357-1
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 02:06:56 AM »

Senator KENNEDY.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. We are
delighted to join together in this very important area of public inquiry and
public interest.
Some 2 years ago, the Senate Health Subcommittee heard chilling
testimony about the human experimentation activities of the Central
Intelligence Agency. The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over
30 universities and institutions were involved in an "extensive testing and
experimentation" program which included covert drug tests on unwitting
citizens "at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign."
Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to "unwitting
subjects in social situations."

At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The
Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense.
The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.
The tests subjects were seldom accessible beyond the first hours of the
test. In a number of instances, the test subject became ill for hours or days,
and effective followup was impossible.

-3-

Other experiments were equally offensive. For example, heroin addicts
were enticed into participating in LSD experiments in order to get a
reward -- heroin.

Perhaps most disturbing of all was the fact that the extent of
experimentation on human subjects was unknown. The records of all these
activities were destroyed in January 1973, at the instruction of then CIA
Director Richard Helms. In spite of persistent inquiries by both the Health
Subcommittee and the Intelligence Committee, no additional records or
information were forthcoming. And no one -- no single individual -- could
be found who remembered the details, not the Director of the CIA, who
ordered the documents destroyed, not the official responsible for the
program, nor any of his associates.
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 02:16:47 AM »

Senator KENNEDY.
Admiral Turner, this is an enormously distressing
report that you give to the American Congress and to the American people
today. Granted, it happened many years ago, but what we are

-16-

basically talking about is an activity which took place in the country that
involved the perversion and the corruption of many of our outstanding
research centers in this country, with CIA funds, where some of our top
researchers were unwittingly involved in research sponsored by the
Agency in which they had no knowledge of the background or the support
for.

Much of it was done with American citizens who were completely
unknowing in terms of taking various drugs, and there are perhaps any
number of Americans who are walking around today on the east coast or
west coast who were given drugs, with all the kinds of physical and
psychological damage that can be caused. We have gone over that in very
careful detail, and it is significant and severe indeed.
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 02:20:19 AM »

Senator SCHWEIKER.

Does it concern you, Admiral, that we used a
subterfuge which resulted in the use of Federal construction grant funds to
finance facilities for these sorts of experiments on our own people?
Because as I understand what you are saying, while the CIA maybe only
put up $375,000, this triggered a response on the part of the Federal
Government to provide on a good faith basis matching hospital funds at
the same level. We put up more than $1 million of matching funds, some
based on an allegedly private donation which was really CIA money.




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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 02:23:47 AM »

Senator INOUYE.
In February 1954, and this was in the very early stages
of MKULTRA, the Director of Central Intelligence wrote to the technical
services staff officials criticizing their judgment because they had
participated in an experiment involving the administration of LSD on an
unwitting basis to Dr. Frank Olson, who later committed suicide. Now, the
individuals criticized were the same individuals who were responsible for
subproject 3, involving exactly the same practices. Even though these
individuals were clearly aware of the dangers of surreptitious
administration and had been criticized by the Director
of Central Intelligence, subproject 3 was not terminated immediately after
Dr. Olson's death.

In fact, according to documents, it continued for a number of years. Can
you provide this committee with any explanation of how such testing
could have continued under these circumstances?

Admiral TURNER.
No, sir, I really can't.
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 02:27:52 AM »

Senator SCHWEIKER.
Subproject 54, MKULTRA, which involved
examination of techniques to cause brain concussions and amnesia by
using weapons or sound waves to strike individuals without giving and
without leaving any clear physical marks. Someone dubbed it "perfect
concussion" -- maybe that was poetic license on the part of our staff rather
than your poets over there. I wonder if you could just tell us what brain
concussion experiments were about?

Admiral TURNER.
This project, No. 54, was canceled, and never carried
out.

Senator SCHWEIKER.
Well, I do believe the first year of the project in
1955 was carried out by the Office of Naval Research, according to the
information that you supplied us. The CIA seems to have been
participating in some way at that point, because the records go on to say
that the experimenter at ONR found out about CIA's role, discovered that
it was a cover, and then the project was transferred to MKULTRA in
1956. Again, this is all from the backup material you have given us. So, it
was canceled at some time. I am not disagreeing

-41-

with that, but apparently for at least a year or two, somebody was
investigating the production of brain concussions with special blackjacks,
sound waves, and other methods as detailed in the backup material.
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 02:34:50 AM »

Senator KENNEDY.
Just talking about the two safe houses on the east
and west, coast as being the sources for the unwitting trials, now, the
importance of this and the magnitude of it, I think, is of significance,
because we have seen from your records that these we're used over a
period of 8 or 9 years, and the numbers could have been considerable. You
are unable to determine, at least, in your own research, what the numbers
would be, and what the drugs were, how many people were involved, but
it could have been considerable during this period of time.

It would certainly appear to me in examining the documents and the flow
charts of cash slips that were expended in these areas that it was
considerable, but that is a judgmental factor on it, but I think it is
important to try and find out what the Agency is attempting to do to get to
the bottom of it.

Now, the principal agent that was involved as I understand it is deceased
and has been deceased for 2 years. The overall agent, Mr. Gottlieb, has
indicated a fuzzy memory about this whole area. He has testified before
the Intelligence Committee. Yet he was responsible for the whole
program. Then, the Director had indicated the destruction of the various
materials and unfamiliarity with the project.
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 02:42:54 AM »

Senator KENNEDY.
Is it plausible that the director of the program would
not understand or know about the details of the program? Is it plausible
that Dr. Gottlieb would not understand the full range of activities in those
particular safe houses?

-46-

Admiral TURNER.
Let me say it is unlikely. I don't know Mr. Gottlieb.

Senator KENNEDY.
Has anybody in the Agency talked with Mr.
Gottlieb to find out about this?

Admiral TURNER.
Not since this revelation has come out.

Senator KENNEDY.
Not since this revelation? Well, why not?

Admiral TURNER.
He has left our employ, Senator.

Senator KENNEDY.
Does that mean that anybody who leaves is, you
know, covered for lifetime?

Admiral TURNER.
No, sir.

Senator KENNEDY.
Why wouldn't you talk with him and find out? You
have new information about this program. It has been a matter of
considerable interest both to our committee and to the Intelligence
Committee. Why wouldn't you talk to Mr. Gottlieb?

Admiral TURNER.
Well, again, I think the issue is whether this should
be done by the Justice Department or ourselves.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, are we wrestling around because you and
Attorney General Bell can't agree--

Admiral TURNER.
No, sir.

Senator KENNEDY [continuing].
On who ought to do it?

Admiral TURNER.
We are proceeding together in complete agreement
as to how to go. I have, in connection with trying to find all of these
Americans or others who were unwittingly tested, I have some
considerable concern about the CIA running around this country
interviewing and interrogating people, because I don't want to give any
impression that we are doing domestic intelligence.

Senator KENNEDY.
I am just talking about one, in this case. That was
the man who was responsible for the whole program, and to find out
whether anyone within the Agency since you have had this new material
has talked to Gottlieb since 1975, and if the answer is no, I want to know
why not.

Admiral TURNER.
The reason he was not interviewed in connection
with the 1975 hearings was that he had left the employ of the CIA and
there was a concern on the part of the Agency that it would appear to the
investigators that the CIA was in some way trying to influence him and
influence his testimony before the committee. If these committees have,
no objection, we would be happy to contact Dr. Gottlieb and see if he can
augment anything here in this new information, though I don't think there
is much in this new information that be can add to as opposed to what was
available in 1975.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, you see, Admiral Turner, you come to the
two committees this morning and indicate that now at last we have the
information. We don't have to be concerned about anything in the future
on it. Now, I don't know how you can give those assurances to the
members of these committees as well as to the American people when you
haven't since 1975 even talked to the principal person that was in charge
of the program, and the records were destroyed. He is the fellow that was
running the program, and the Agency has not talked to him since the
development of this new material.

Admiral TURNER.
Our only concern here is the proprieties involved,
and we will dig into this and work with the Justice Department on

-47-

who, if either of us, should get into discussions with Dr. Gottlieb so as not
to prejudice any legal rights that may be involved here, or to appear in any
way to be improper.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, do I understand you have not contacted the
Justice Department about this particular case since the development of this
new material about Gottlieb?

Admiral TURNER.
Not about Gottlieb specifically. We have contacted
him.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, it is amazing to me. I mean, can you
understand the difficulty that any of us might have in terms of
comprehending that when you develop a whole new series of materials
that are on the front page of every newspaper in the country and are on
every television, I mean, that means something, but it does not mean
nearly as much as the interest that we have in the fact about the testing of
unwitting Americans, and every single document that the staff reviews has
Mr. Gottlieb's name on it and you come to tell us that we don't have to
worry any more, we have these other final facts, and Mr. Gottlieb has not
been talked to?

Admiral TURNER.
Sir, I am not saying that these are in any way the
final facts. I am saying these are all the facts we have available.

Senator KENNEDY.
And you have not talked to the person who was in
charge of the program, so what kind of value or what kind of weight can
we give it?
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DroppingPlates
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2014, 02:54:36 AM »

Mushroomman deserves a ban
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visualizeperfection
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2014, 02:57:17 AM »

Mushroomman deserves a ban

X2.


He needs to find somewhere to fuck off to, quickly.
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2014, 03:01:28 AM »

Senator KENNEDY.
I want to welcome both of you to the committee. If
we could start with Mr. Goldman. Were you the project engineer for the
safe houses in either San Francisco or New York?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I know of no safe house in San Francisco.

Senator KENNEDY.
How about in New York?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I knew of one facility that was established there, but I
didn't know anything of its operation.

Senator KENNEDY.
Were you a monitor on any testing of drugs on
unwitting persons in San Francisco?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
No.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, we have a classified document here that was
provided by the Agency that lists your name as a monitor of the program
and I would appreciate it if you would look--

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I think the misunderstanding arises because I was
project officer.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, would you take a look at that?

[Mr. Goldman inspected the document.]

Mr. GOLDMAN.
This document as it states is correct. However, my--

Senator KENNEDY.
That document is correct?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
As far as I see on the first page, the project. But my--

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, could I get it back, please.
That would indicate that you were a monitor of the program.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I was in charge of disbursing the moneys to Morgan
Hall.

Senator KENNEDY.
To whom was that?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
To the individual whose name was listed at the top of
that document.

Senator KENNEDY.
And you knew that he was running the project in
San Francisco?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I knew he was the person who was in charge out there.

Senator KENNEDY.
All right.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
But I had no knowledge nor did I seek knowledge of
actually what he was doing, because there would be other things involved.

I did receive--

Senator KENNEDY.
What were you doing?

-52-

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I was collecting -- I had to be sure that all the receipts
that ever were turned in balanced with the moneys that were paid out to
see that everything was run all right. There was no illegal use of funds as
far as we could determine by the receipts and cash.

Senator KENNEDY.

So even though the Agency document indicates that
you were a monitor for the program, one of the few monitors of that
particular program which you mentioned for San Francisco and Mill
Valley, Calif., you described your responsibility only as a carrier of
money, is that correct?

Mr. GOLDMAN.

I would say as a disburser or carrying out -- seeing that
the moneys were handled properly. There was within that -- I don't know
what's done or what he did do in conjunction with other people.

Senator KENNEDY.
Were you responsible for the disbursement of all
the funds?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I was responsible for turning over the check to him.

Senator KENNEDY.
And what did you know of the program itself?

Mr. GOLDMAN.
The only thing I knew of the program was what he
furnished us in terms of receipts and that sort of thing. I didn't indulge or
concern myself in that.

Senator KENNEDY.
You still wrote, and I'll let you examine it -- it's a
classified document -- but you wrote a rather substantive review of the
program in May of 1963, talking about the experiments, the factual data
that had been collected, covert and realistic field trials, about the necessity
of those particular -- and talked about the effectiveness of the various
programs, the efficiency of various delivery systems. That doesn't sound
to me like someone who is only--

Mr. GOLDMAN.

Well, if you would refresh my memory, if I could read
this I would certainly agree with whatever is said there, if it was written.

Senator KENNEDY.
I am trying to gather what your role was. You've
indicated first of all that you didn't know about -- you knew about a safe
house in New York; now we find out that you're the carrier for the
resources as well and the agent in San Francisco. We find out now that the
CIA put you as a monitor. You're testifying that you only were the courier,
and here we have just one document, and there are many others that talk
about the substance of that program with your name on it and I am just
trying to find out exactly what role you were playing.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
The only thing I can tell you about this and I am
drawing completely on my memory is that this individual who was in
charge out there conducted these things and reported them back to the
Agency. I didn't participate in any of them. All I know was that he
furnished me with receipts for things that were done and told of the work
that they had done.

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, that document covers more than receipts.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
Yes, it tells of what -- they had conducted work out
there.

Senator KENNEDY.
It describes, does it not? Read the paragraph 2.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
"A number of covert"--

Senator KENNEDY.
Well, you can't read it, it's a classified document,
and I don't know why, quite frankly, but it relates to the substance
of those programs and your name is signed to the memorandums on it. I
am not interested in you trying to review for us now what is in the
document, but I think it would be unfortunate if we were left with the
opinion that all you were was a courier of resources when we see a
document with your name on it, signed, that talks about the substance of
the program. And what we're interested in is the substance of the program.
We have the recent documents that were provided by the Agency, which
do indicate that you were at least involved in the substance, and I'm just
trying to find out whether you're willing to tell us about that.

Mr. GOLDMAN.
I am perfectly willing to tell you everything that I can
remember.

Senator KENNEDY.
But you can't remember anything.
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2014, 03:09:07 AM »

This shit is old news.

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When God Of Hormones
muscleman-2013
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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 03:23:52 AM »

This shit is old news.



Yeah I'm sure most getbiggers are well versed in the Church Hearings.
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2014, 03:33:24 AM »

Yeah I'm sure most getbiggers are well versed in the Church Hearings.

I doubt they are. And I highly doubt they care, anyways.
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When God Of Hormones
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2014, 03:51:30 AM »

I had MK Ultra

It was one of the coolest Mortal Kombat installations
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Svengoolie
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2014, 07:26:10 AM »

I used to listen to Ultra by KMFDM when I'd work out back in the day.
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TheGrinch
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2014, 08:37:29 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8grx0gpqNH0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8grx0gpqNH0</a>
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thebrink
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2014, 11:00:57 AM »

conspiracy and didnt happen , move on
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muscleman-2013
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2014, 12:41:10 AM »

conspiracy and didnt happen , move on

lol


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