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Author Topic: Serious question: What's the replacement plan for Obamacare?  (Read 1174 times)
Vince G, CSN MFT
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2017, 04:54:22 PM »

Simple


Abortion...take the stairs

Broken arm....stick and twine


Surgery needed....die
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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2017, 04:55:51 PM »

We're still trying to find out the "plan" for Obamacare.

This is just weak Coach.  You can do better than this.
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2017, 05:13:45 PM »

Simple


Abortion...take the stairs

Broken arm....stick and twine


Surgery needed....die

Yes, because that's what we had in place before this disaster of a law. 
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AbrahamG
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2017, 06:32:49 PM »

Yes, because that's what we had in place before this disaster of a law. 

For about 32 million people, yes.  That was essentially it.  Don't get sick and if you do, die.
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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2017, 06:39:06 PM »

For about 32 million people, yes.  That was essentially it.  Don't get sick and if you do, die.

I don't believe that number.  Never did.  And it was never die if you get sick.  People who cannot afford preventative health care could always get treatment.  State and county hospitals do not charge them.  Medicare, Medicaid, and their state equivalents were always available for people living in poverty.  Anti-patient dumping exists in probably every state, which requires hospitals to treat anyone who shows up at the ER, regardless of their ability to pay.  So to say people simply died without treatment is absolutely false. 
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« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2017, 07:21:32 PM »

I don't believe that number.  Never did.  And it was never die if you get sick.  People who cannot afford preventative health care could always get treatment.  State and county hospitals do not charge them.  Medicare, Medicaid, and their state equivalents were always available for people living in poverty.  Anti-patient dumping exists in probably every state, which requires hospitals to treat anyone who shows up at the ER, regardless of their ability to pay.  So to say people simply died without treatment is absolutely false.  

I do have a serious question here.

Has anyone done any studies discussing the percentages of people who have not died because of preventative medicine and correlated it with the extra numbers of people on insurance because of the healthcare act, and in turn, determined if the healthcare bill has in fact, saved some number of lives?

If so, what was the number of lives saved, or the percentage of lives that were made longer and by how long were they increased due to the healthcare mandate / tax / whatever you want to call it?

Just wondering if it was or was not worth the trouble.

Another question.

How much more have Insurance companies pocketed (percentages per year if any) than before the mandate?
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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2017, 07:26:34 PM »

I do have a serious question here.

Has anyone done any studies discussing the percentages of people who have no died because of preventative medicine and correlated it with the extra numbers of people on insurance because of the healthcare act, and in turn, determined if the healthcare bill has in fact, saved some number of lives?

If so, what was the number of lives saved, or the percentage of lives that were made longer and by how long were they increased due to the healthcare mandate / tax / whatever you want to call it?

Just wondering if it was or was not worth the trouble.

Another question.

How much more have Insurance companies pocketed (percentages per year if any) than before the mandate?

Good question, but I have no idea.  Not sure I would trust any kind of study done by the government anyway. 

And don't even get me started on insurance companies.  They are almost as bad as the gas/oil companies, who always maintain their profit margin.  I remember some years back one of our HMOs had almost a billion dollar reserve and was still raising rates. 
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« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2017, 09:09:44 PM »

I don't believe that number.  Never did.  And it was never die if you get sick.  People who cannot afford preventative health care could always get treatment.  State and county hospitals do not charge them.  Medicare, Medicaid, and their state equivalents were always available for people living in poverty.  Anti-patient dumping exists in probably every state, which requires hospitals to treat anyone who shows up at the ER, regardless of their ability to pay.  So to say people simply died without treatment is absolutely false. 

Not everyone that wasn't able to afford preventative health care survived.  In many cases they died before, during and after "treatment".
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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2017, 03:38:34 AM »

Just heard on WSJ radio: There will need to be 60 senators on board to replace Obamacare. Not sure if there are enough centrists, or senators up for re-election, to make 60.

So now I see why they are saying it might not be until 2018...  Angry

Jesus, what a mess.
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« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2017, 03:22:43 PM »

Why not?
.

What other countries healthcare systems where you don't reside also interest you.
How do they compare to our system or the unnamed country where you live?
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« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2017, 03:27:43 PM »

I don't think he can eliminate the mandate without Congress changing the law.  He has to enforce the law until Congress changes it.  Or least that's the way it's supposed to work. 

If they get rid of the buy in mandate, premium costs will skyrocket.
If you don't require younger, healthier people to buy in, that removes the lowest risk/best health bunch from the pool. This will leave an older, less healthy group of clients. That will INCREASE costs.
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« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2017, 05:16:14 PM »

Not everyone that wasn't able to afford preventative health care survived.  In many cases they died before, during and after "treatment".

Pretty broad statement.  Can you narrow it down some?  What people are you talking about who died because they could not obtain medical treatment? 
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« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2017, 07:45:43 PM »

Pretty broad statement.  Can you narrow it down some?  What people are you talking about who died because they could not obtain medical treatment? 

People who never made it to the ER.  People who got to the ER too late.  People that had cancer which at one point in their life was treatable, if not curable. 
If you are asking for names you are just being a douche.  You know that these things have happened and probably continue to happen.
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« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2017, 04:38:17 AM »

.

What other countries healthcare systems where you don't reside also interest you.
How do they compare to our system or the unnamed country where you live?

That's on a "need to know" basis.
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« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2017, 10:50:08 AM »

People who never made it to the ER.  People who got to the ER too late.  People that had cancer which at one point in their life was treatable, if not curable. 
If you are asking for names you are just being a douche.  You know that these things have happened and probably continue to happen.

No need to be a punk.  I'm just trying to understand your point.  If you're telling me that large numbers of people who wanted healthcare, but could not obtain it, got sick or injured, were unable to obtain treatment, and died as a result, I say prove it.  I could be wrong, but I don't believe that's true. 
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« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2017, 12:48:21 PM »

Remeber Obama stole 2008 and 2012.
acorn vote fraud and IRS suppression of tea party along with fake news and union bussing.
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« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2017, 01:45:39 PM »

Remeber Obama stole 2008 and 2012.
acorn vote fraud and IRS suppression of tea party along with fake news and union bussing.

There is zero proof of any of this.

Please. Can this be moved to the conspiracy board?
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« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2017, 01:49:10 PM »

There is zero proof of any of this.

Please. Can this be moved to the conspiracy board?

That troll's days are numbered. 
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« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2017, 05:19:36 PM »

No need to be a punk.  I'm just trying to understand your point.  If you're telling me that large numbers of people who wanted healthcare, but could not obtain it, got sick or injured, were unable to obtain treatment, and died as a result, I say prove it.  I could be wrong, but I don't believe that's true. 

Not trying to be a punk.  But you are not being honest/realistic.  You don't think people without insurance have ignored warning signs, dealt with chronic pain popped otc drugs until the pain or effects of whatever disease/illness you want to use to fill in the blank and then when they finally can't take it anymore or it becomes debilitating they end up in the ER only to find out they have a death sentence?  But by you asking me to "prove it", you are being a douche.  This shit has happened and will continue to happen.  Something as simple as high blood pressure aka the silent killer could be detected via the yearly physical that is now fully covered thanks to the ACA.  I'd venture that a great number of people have succumbed to heart attacks and strokes due to high blood pressure. 
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« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2017, 05:31:25 PM »

That's on a "need to know" basis.

What's the problem with sharing your knowledge of other countries health care systems and how they compare to the US (for better or worse)

You seem to have studied these things.  You don't need to specify the country where you reside in order to discuss this.
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« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2017, 05:33:42 PM »

Not trying to be a punk.  But you are not being honest/realistic.  You don't think people without insurance have ignored warning signs, dealt with chronic pain popped otc drugs until the pain or effects of whatever disease/illness you want to use to fill in the blank and then when they finally can't take it anymore or it becomes debilitating they end up in the ER only to find out they have a death sentence?  But by you asking me to "prove it", you are being a douche.  This shit has happened and will continue to happen.  Something as simple as high blood pressure aka the silent killer could be detected via the yearly physical that is now fully covered thanks to the ACA.  I'd venture that a great number of people have succumbed to heart attacks and strokes due to high blood pressure. 

Calling someone a douche because they ask you to clarify or provide more information is acting like a punk.  Really unnecessary.  I don't ask set-up/gotcha questions.  

You are mixing scenarios.  Of course there are people who ignore warning signs, don't get treatment, and suffer and die as a result.  But you're also saying that large numbers of these people actually wanted healthcare but were unable to obtain it because of cost, etc.  That's where we disagree.

If you look at my state for example, we have a law that requires employers to provide health insurance for every employee who works at least 20 hours a week for 4 consecutive weeks.  In other words, anyone with at least slightly more than part-time job has health insurance.  For those who are unemployed, or employed less than 20 hours, they qualify for Quest, which is our state equivalent of Medicaid.  Quest includes preventive healthcare.  Are there people who still slip through the cracks?  Yes.  But it's not a large number of people, despite what some activists say.  People by and large choose not to take advantage of available resources.      
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« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2017, 07:58:19 PM »

Calling someone a douche because they ask you to clarify or provide more information is acting like a punk.  Really unnecessary.  I don't ask set-up/gotcha questions.  

You are mixing scenarios.  Of course there are people who ignore warning signs, don't get treatment, and suffer and die as a result.  But you're also saying that large numbers of these people actually wanted healthcare but were unable to obtain it because of cost, etc.  That's where we disagree.

If you look at my state for example, we have a law that requires employers to provide health insurance for every employee who works at least 20 hours a week for 4 consecutive weeks.  In other words, anyone with at least slightly more than part-time job has health insurance.  For those who are unemployed, or employed less than 20 hours, they qualify for Quest, which is our state equivalent of Medicaid.  Quest includes preventive healthcare.  Are there people who still slip through the cracks?  Yes.  But it's not a large number of people, despite what some activists say.  People by and large choose not to take advantage of available resources.      

Ok.  No more "douche" talk.  My bad.  If a hundred people slip through the cracks, that's too many for me.  I'm certain that it is much higher than that anyways.  It's never going to be a good or at the very least a fair system for everyone as long as the profit motive drives health care. 
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« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2017, 12:25:02 PM »

Ok.  No more "douche" talk.  My bad.  If a hundred people slip through the cracks, that's too many for me.  I'm certain that it is much higher than that anyways.  It's never going to be a good or at the very least a fair system for everyone as long as the profit motive drives health care. 

No worries. 

I agree that we ought to do something to provide a safety net for people who slip through the cracks.  What I don't think we should do is turn the system upside to help those folks.  People who were happy with their healthcare and doctors should not have been forced into plans designed by the government. 
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