Author Topic: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals  (Read 1399 times)

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Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« on: March 08, 2010, 11:32:29 AM »
I hope they slam these idiots. 

Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
By Bill Mears, CNN Supreme Court Producer
March 8, 2010 11:20 a.m. EST
 
Washington (CNN) -- A small Kansas church that has gained nationwide attention for protesting loudly at funerals of U.S. service members will receive a Supreme Court hearing over free speech rights.

The justices Monday accepted an appeal from the father of a U.S. Marine killed in Iraq over efforts to keep members of the Topeka-based Westboro Baptist Church from demonstrating near memorial services and burials.

The Marine's family won a $5 million judgment from the protesters, which lower courts overturned.

The church, led by pastor Fred Phelps, said it believes God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events such as soldiers' deaths.

Members have traveled the country, shouting at grieving family members at funerals and displaying such signs as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Blew Up the Troops."

At issue is a balancing test between the privacy rights of grieving families and the free speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message.

Several states have attempted to impose specific limits on when and where the church can protest.

Westboro members appeared outside the 2006 funeral for Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder in Westminster, Maryland, outside Baltimore.

A jury awarded Snyder's family $2.9 million in compensatory damages plus $8 million in punitive damages. Those damages later were reduced to $5 million. It was the first lawsuit against the church over the protests.

Snyder's father, Albert, testified his son was not gay, but church members said their broader message was aimed at the unspecified actions of the military and those who serve in it.

The Supreme Court has never addressed the specific issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased. But the high court has recognized the state's interest in protecting those from unwanted protests or communications while in their homes.

The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.

According to a legal brief it filed with the high court, church members believe it is their duty to protest at certain events, including funerals, to promote their religious message: "That God's promise of love and heaven for those who obey him in this life is counterbalanced by God's wrath and hell for those who do not obey him."

The congregation is made up mostly of Phelps and his family. The pastor has 13 children and at least 54 grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren. He described himself as an "old-time" gospel preacher in a CNN interview in 2006, saying, "You can't preach the Bible without preaching the hatred of God."

Church members have participated in hundreds of protests across the country.

In a separate appeal, the high court last year blocked Missouri's effort to enforce a specific law aimed at the Westboro church.

Phelps, his daughter Shirley Phelps-Roper and other church members protested near the August 2005 funeral of an Army soldier in St. Joseph, Missouri.

State lawmakers later passed the Spc. Edward Lee Myers Law, criminalizing picketing "in front or about" a funeral location or procession.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/08/homosexuality.protest/index.html?iref=allsearch

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 11:40:52 AM »
I'm for free speech but these people are fucked.

drkaje

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 11:52:06 AM »
We should deport them to Iran or Somalia for a little perspective.

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 11:55:58 AM »
I'm all for free speech too, including offensive speech, but there are limits. 

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 12:05:54 PM »
As much as I would like a garbage truck to loose control and plow into one of their protests, being an asshole is not a good enough reason to silence these people. Fortuantly we have groups like the Patriot Guard who do their best to shield the families from these bastards.
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Dos Equis

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 12:09:30 PM »
As much as I would like a garbage truck to loose control and plow into one of their protests, being an asshole is not a good enough reason to silence these people. Fortuantly we have groups like the Patriot Guard who do their best to shield the families from these bastards.

I think there's more to it than that.  These are grieving families who just want to bury their dead in peace.  I have no problem at all with a buffer zone under those circumstances. 

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 12:14:15 PM »
I think there's more to it than that.  These are grieving families who just want to bury their dead in peace.  I have no problem at all with a buffer zone under those circumstances. 

Oh there is, but they do everything right, get the permits. Dot the i's and cross the t's., thats why when they are assaulted they sue and win. They know how to work the system.
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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 12:15:48 PM »
I hope they slam these idiots. 

Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
By Bill Mears, CNN Supreme Court Producer
March 8, 2010 11:20 a.m. EST
 
Washington (CNN) -- A small Kansas church that has gained nationwide attention for protesting loudly at funerals of U.S. service members will receive a Supreme Court hearing over free speech rights.

The justices Monday accepted an appeal from the father of a U.S. Marine killed in Iraq over efforts to keep members of the Topeka-based Westboro Baptist Church from demonstrating near memorial services and burials.

The Marine's family won a $5 million judgment from the protesters, which lower courts overturned.

The church, led by pastor Fred Phelps, said it believes God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events such as soldiers' deaths.

Members have traveled the country, shouting at grieving family members at funerals and displaying such signs as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Blew Up the Troops."

At issue is a balancing test between the privacy rights of grieving families and the free speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message.

Several states have attempted to impose specific limits on when and where the church can protest.

Westboro members appeared outside the 2006 funeral for Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder in Westminster, Maryland, outside Baltimore.

A jury awarded Snyder's family $2.9 million in compensatory damages plus $8 million in punitive damages. Those damages later were reduced to $5 million. It was the first lawsuit against the church over the protests.

Snyder's father, Albert, testified his son was not gay, but church members said their broader message was aimed at the unspecified actions of the military and those who serve in it.

The Supreme Court has never addressed the specific issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased. But the high court has recognized the state's interest in protecting those from unwanted protests or communications while in their homes.

The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.

According to a legal brief it filed with the high court, church members believe it is their duty to protest at certain events, including funerals, to promote their religious message: "That God's promise of love and heaven for those who obey him in this life is counterbalanced by God's wrath and hell for those who do not obey him."

The congregation is made up mostly of Phelps and his family. The pastor has 13 children and at least 54 grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren. He described himself as an "old-time" gospel preacher in a CNN interview in 2006, saying, "You can't preach the Bible without preaching the hatred of God."

Church members have participated in hundreds of protests across the country.

In a separate appeal, the high court last year blocked Missouri's effort to enforce a specific law aimed at the Westboro church.

Phelps, his daughter Shirley Phelps-Roper and other church members protested near the August 2005 funeral of an Army soldier in St. Joseph, Missouri.

State lawmakers later passed the Spc. Edward Lee Myers Law, criminalizing picketing "in front or about" a funeral location or procession.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/08/homosexuality.protest/index.html?iref=allsearch
I think a good question with this is, when does this equate to harrassment? When services are private, and protesters come and get in your face, if physically defending yourself is a decision that one feels they needed to do, can this be considered self-defense?

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 12:19:05 PM »
They need to stop it because eventually violence will break out at a freaking funeral.

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 12:19:33 PM »
Oh there is, but they do everything right, get the permits. Dot the i's and cross the t's., thats why when they are assaulted they sue and win. They know how to work the system.

They certainly do.

Dos Equis

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 12:23:45 PM »
I think a good question with this is, when does this equate to harrassment? When services are private, and protesters come and get in your face, if physically defending yourself is a decision that one feels they needed to do, can this be considered self-defense?

I think protesting at a funeral, while making derogatory comments about the deceased, is pure harassment. 

I do think these folks should be able to have their protests, just not a funeral. 

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 12:24:56 PM »
I think protesting at a funeral, while making derogatory comments about the deceased, is pure harassment. 

I do think these folks should be able to have their protests, just not a funeral. 

You don't like our rights as Americans very much do you Beach Bum?

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 12:29:37 PM »
Free speech is not an absolute right.

Normally I'd say justices hearing this case is a good thing because the court is a little right leaning. That being said, there's no way for them to do the right thing and keep the ability to protest at planned parenthood and other abortion places intact. There's a very good chance the court will do nothing.

It sucks when idiots abuse First Amendment rights. Typically we all end up losing a little something to stop a few from extreme behavior.

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 12:32:05 PM »
they should just pass a law making it legal to kick the shit out of protesters at funerals.

if you protest, etc, then assault/battery laws are not in place for that day/location.

Let a few of these protesters enjoy some physical pain, and they'll settle down.

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 12:34:35 PM »
You don't like our rights as Americans very much do you Beach Bum?



lol.  What??  lol . . . .

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2010, 12:35:58 PM »
Free speech is not an absolute right.


Ding!   :)  We've always imposed limits. Time, place, and manner. 

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2010, 12:56:22 PM »
Ding!   :)  We've always imposed limits. Time, place, and manner. 

Is there much difference between saying "This was God's punishment" among the grieving and "Fire!" in a movie theater?!

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2010, 12:59:23 PM »
Is there much difference between saying "This was God's punishment" among the grieving and "Fire!" in a movie theater?!

Probably not.  I'd also compare it to something like racial epithets, or "fighting words," which are not protected speech either. 

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2010, 01:02:29 PM »
Probably not.  I'd also compare it to something like racial epithets, or "fighting words," which are not protected speech either. 

I would think someone as knowledgeable of the law as yourself would see a difference in yelling "fire" which is a blatant lie to induce panic, and yelling "this was god's punishment", which may be a sincere belief of these psychos?

 ???
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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2010, 01:09:47 PM »
I would think someone as knowledgeable of the law as yourself would see a difference in yelling "fire" which is a blatant lie to induce panic, and yelling "this was god's punishment", which may be a sincere belief of these psychos?

 ???

See my prior post making a better comparison of "this was God's punishment" being yelled at a funeral with racial epithets and "fighting words." 

Although I think this example fits, I can also see an argument for comparing what they're doing to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, because protesting in the manner those idiots do can induce fighting, mayhem, etc.  At least if I was attending the funeral it would. 

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 01:13:45 PM »
I would think someone as knowledgeable of the law as yourself would see a difference in yelling "fire" which is a blatant lie to induce panic, and yelling "this was god's punishment", which may be a sincere belief of these psychos?

 ???

Someone with psychotic delusions may truly believe there to be a fire. That belief doesn't necessarily trump the right of others to peacefully exist.

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 01:14:04 PM »
Seems like what they are doing could fall under:

Incitement to illegal activity and/or imminent violence

Maybe defamation and libel and intimidation as well


www.ncac.org


Under the First Amendment, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacefully to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” As the Supreme Court has explained, “If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable.” (Texas v. Johnson)

Though the text of the First Amendment limits only Congress’ ability to abridge speech, the courts have interpreted the First Amendment as being applicable to any “state action” by officials at any level of government. Thus, the First Amendment pertains to regulations by the FCC, acts of Congress, and the local police department. Private organizations, such as private art galleries or colleges, in contrast, are not technically bound by the First Amendment.

“Speech” has been broadly defined by the courts to include not only verbal expression, but also visual art, music, theater, dance, and other expressive conduct and non-verbal forms of communication. However, First Amendment rights are not absolute, and have some exceptions.

Unprotected speech includes:

Incitement to illegal activity and/or imminent violence;

Defamation and libel;

Obscenity;

Threats and intimidation; and

False advertising.

Government suppression of otherwise legal speech can be justified only if the government can advance a compelling reason. For example, national security concerns might justify suppression of an article describing military strategy in wartime. More often, free speech cases involve claims that government regulations are vague or overly broad, or that the government is engaging in viewpoint discrimination – trying to suppress speech because of opposition to the message it conveys. As this website details, different forms of expression are protected to varying degrees, often depending on where the expression occurs, and whether the regulation is formulated or applied to affect the content or viewpoint of the speech in that forum.

Associated Cases:

Boggs v. Bowron
Burstyn v. Wilson
Interstate Circuit, Inc. v. City of Dallas
Nitke v. Gonzalez
Nussenzweig v. DiCorcia
Simeonov v. Tiegs
Yurkew v. Sinclair



 

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Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 01:19:24 PM »
I personally think their protests are obscene...

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to run these people down with a dump truck...
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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 01:21:31 PM »
I personally think their protests are obscene...

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to run these people down with a dump truck...

we need Epic Beard Man at a few of these funerals. 

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Re: Justices to hear case over protests at military funerals
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 01:22:25 PM »
we need Epic Beard Man at a few of these funerals. 

 ;D
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