Author Topic: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult  (Read 886 times)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66458
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
:o  A kid as young as ten can be tried as an adult in Pennsylvania?  Bad law.

Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
By Chris Togneri
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Ten years is not enough time to rehabilitate a Lawrence County boy charged with killing his father's pregnant fiancee, a judge ruled yesterday.

"A more horrific crime is difficult to imagine," Common Pleas Judge Dominick Motto wrote in ruling Jordan Brown will stand trial as an adult. State police say Brown, then 11, placed a shotgun to the back of Kenzie Marie Houk's head and pulled the trigger last year.

If convicted of first-degree murder, Brown could be the youngest person in American history to be sentenced to life in prison without parole, legal experts said.

"I'm in shock," defense attorney Dennis Elisco said. "This is certainly the lowest point of my 29-year career. We're just devastated."

Motto denied a request by defense attorneys to move the case to juvenile court. Had the case been tried there, the state could not hold Brown, 12, beyond his 21st birthday.

During hearings this year, Motto heard conflicting testimony from experts on whether Brown could be rehabilitated.

"It is not likely defendant can be rehabilitated prior to the expiration of the juvenile court jurisdiction," Motto wrote. "(Brown) is an individual with significant personality problems that are complicated by his presenting to people in authority a version of himself that does not include the negative aspects."

Brown is charged with the February 2009 shooting deaths of Houk and her unborn son, Christopher. Police say Brown shot Houk as she lay in bed in the family's New Galilee home, and then left the house to get on the school bus.

Defense attorney David Acker said he and Elisco are considering an appeal.

Christopher Brown, Jordan's father, did not comment. He drove to the Edmund L. Thomas Adolescent Detention Center in Erie, where his son is housed, to explain Motto's decision.

The boy cried throughout the visit, Elisco said. "I don't know if he really understands the meaning of 'the rest of your life.' "

Motto said he considered several factors, including Jordan Brown's amenability to rehabilitation, psychological evaluations of the boy and the impact of the crime. He considered the nature and circumstance of the crime, noting that Houk was 8 1/2 months pregnant and defenseless.

"There is no indication of any provocation by the victim that led to her killing. This offense was an execution-style killing of a defenseless pregnant young mother," Motto wrote.

He placed the case on the May trial list but did not set a trial date.

Houk's mother, Deborah Houk, said she is "pleased" Jordan Brown will be tried as an adult.

"I don't see how it could have been handled any other way," she said. "But it's not a victory. There is no victory. Not with the loss of a child and a grandchild."

Motto's ruling stunned some legal observers.

"I am shocked," said Jeffrey Shook, a professor of social work at the University of Pittsburgh and an expert on the juvenile justice system. "We know a lot about young people and how they're different, and to treat someone who is 11 at the time of their offense as an adult really rejects a lot of what we know about adolescent brain development."

Laurence Steinberg, a developmental psychologist at Temple University in Philadelphia and expert on adolescent behavior and brain biology, said "the idea of taking a child this age and locking them up for life is pretty repugnant. What he (allegedly) did is repugnant also. But the heinousness of the crime does not make him an adult."

Robert Schwartz, executive director of the Juvenile Law Center in Philadelphia, believes Brown could receive the treatment he needs.

"It seems from the opinion that the judge treats an 11-year-old's state of mind as if it were an adult's state of mind," he said. "Anybody who knows anything about 11-year-olds knows that that's a stretch."
 
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/regional/s_674015.html

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 03:54:44 PM »
:o  A kid as young as ten can be tried as an adult in Pennsylvania?  Bad law.


Sounds like a great law to me.  Ideally, we'd off this little shit before he can murder anybody else.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66458
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 03:56:37 PM »

Sounds like a great law to me.  Ideally, we'd off this little shit before he can murder anybody else.

You think a kid at age 11 (when this crime was committed) should be treated like an adult? 

Tito24

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20638
  • I'm a large man but.. one with a plan
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 04:00:33 PM »
You think a kid at age 11 (when this crime was committed) should be treated like an adult? 

I think it's wrong to try the kid as an adult.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66458
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 04:01:32 PM »
I think it's wrong to try the kid as an adult.

Me too.

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 04:03:53 PM »
You think a kid at age 11 (when this crime was committed) should be treated like an adult? 

For a crime this heinous...absolutely.  Try him and fry him.  Better for society, he's going to be just as bad if they hold him and then let him out.

drkaje

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18182
  • Quiet, Err. I'm transmitting rage.
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 04:07:42 PM »
Someone capable of doing that at age 11 is very likely a sociopath and beyond rehabilitation.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66458
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 04:12:49 PM »
For a crime this heinous...absolutely.  Try him and fry him.  Better for society, he's going to be just as bad if they hold him and then let him out.

Well, he can't be executed, so max would be life in prison.  

I do think (actually know) that a kid's personality and character are pretty much set by around age five or so, but what they're unable to do, sometimes into their twenties, is appreciate and understand the long-term consequences of their conduct.  With the possible exception of pedophiles, I think young kids like this can be rehabilitated.  As they mature they can better understand how to look beyond themselves and how acts today can have permanent consequences.  

We could still take a kid like this, punish him, educate him, and make him a productive member of society.  

tu_holmes

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15922
  • Robot
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 04:17:48 PM »
I think it really comes down to intent.

According to reports, this kid planned a really heinous murder... I'm in agreement with it.

He's not going to get the death penalty... Welcome to a life behind bars kid.

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2010, 04:23:01 PM »
Well, he can't be executed, so max would life in prison. 

I do think (actually know) that a kid's personality and character are pretty much set by around age five or so, but what they're unable to do, sometimes into their twenties, is appreciate and understand the long-term consequences of their conduct.  With the possible exception of pedophiles, I think young kids like this can be rehabilitated.  As they mature they can better understand how to look beyond themselves and how acts today can have permanent consequences. 

We could still take a kid like this, punish him, educate him, and make him a productive member of society.   



Then I wouldn't mind seeing the law changed so we can off these kids.

I don't buy that an 11 yr old doesn't understand the finality of blowing somebody's head off.  Lock him up, throw away the key.  He won't be rehabilitated, he'll be a hardened con.  And more people in society will suffer as a result.

drkaje

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18182
  • Quiet, Err. I'm transmitting rage.
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 04:27:55 PM »
I don't feel he can be helped but executing him now or as an adult won't bring anyone back.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66458
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 04:30:30 PM »

Then I wouldn't mind seeing the law changed so we can off these kids.

I don't buy that an 11 yr old doesn't understand the finality of blowing somebody's head off.  Lock him up, throw away the key.  He won't be rehabilitated, he'll be a hardened con.  And more people in society will suffer as a result.

We'd have to amend the Constitution, because the supreme court has already determined we cannot execute minors. 

At what age would you draw the line?  It's ten in Pa. 

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 05:34:36 PM »
We'd have to amend the Constitution, because the supreme court has already determined we cannot execute minors.

Fine, amend it.


Quote
At what age would you draw the line?  It's ten in Pa. 

9 or 10 sounds reasonable.  Certainly below 9 I don't think they can appreciate the consequences.

And at what age would you set the bar?

Eyeball Chambers

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14348
  • Would you hold still? You're making me fuck up...
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2010, 05:36:13 PM »
This sucks either way...  :-\

If sentenced, would he be in a juvenile facility until he was older?
S

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66458
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Some observers shocked that 12-year-old will be tried as adult
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2010, 05:57:54 PM »
Fine, amend it.


9 or 10 sounds reasonable.  Certainly below 9 I don't think they can appreciate the consequences.

And at what age would you set the bar?

Probably 16.  Maturity levels vary greatly between kids, but as a society we don't treat them like adults for most things till about age 16.