Author Topic: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..  (Read 28047 times)

bigbobs

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2010, 04:54:43 PM »
Did you not read what I said about Chris Cormier? He lost to Cutler 3x, when CC had the better physique, more cuts, density, and shape. Cutler looked like a brick with arms. Could they have been buying the hype that Cutler was "next", that he was the one push Ronnie? Could CC's issues with Ahmo Hight back in 96 have been following him, and some judges viewed him as a woman beater, so it would not have been good PR (for the contest or Arnold himself) to have him win the AC, lord knows what the headlines could have read.

Judges have been known to punish bbers. Look what they did at Flex at the 95 Mr. O, or recently Wolfe this past yr. Or Phil and Dex and Kai.

Look I give props for Nasser being a top bber, but let's face it, Flex was better. Period, he has Arnold's stamp on that, and he is basically Zeus when it comes to those decrees.

You think judges were unfairly placing Nasser ahead of Levrone in some shows, in contrast I feel judges were unfairly placing Wheeler ahead of Nasser in some shows.  Like I said my question about why nasser would win 99 AC to a "more muscular" Levrone is mainly towards ND since he t hinks judging never has flaws.

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2010, 04:55:44 PM »
was in response to Parker saying that Levrone was "punished" for coming in too small in 99 AC - that would only make sense if Levrone was placing higher than  Nasser before the 99 AC then all of a sudden came smaller, but like my post said that wasn't the case.

Doesnt surprise me that you weren't able to follow the logic of my post ;)

I don't even have to read your posts anymore at this point Bobs....."YAYYYYYYY.... NASSER!!!!" pretty much covers them all.

bigbobs

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2010, 04:56:30 PM »
I don't even have to read your posts anymore at this point Bobs....."YAYYYYYYY.... NASSER!!!!" pretty much covers them all.

typical easy response when you can't follow my higher logic and IQ :D

bigbobs

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2010, 05:05:27 PM »
Back to Parker, you said that Cormier deserved to beat Cutler but didn't because he has a bad rep and may have been a woman beater, but there are stories of Dexter beating his wife before and he won the Olympia.  Also stories of Wheeler acting violent to women (he got 5 years probation in one instance), and of course the grapefruit sexer Kai yet that didn't stop him from winning it.  Bannout even  won the Olympia even though he had domestic violence issues for many years.  Samir once even choked Joe Weider in his office and knocked out a British judge after the British Grand Prix which got him a "lifetime" suspension at the time that was later lifted.  When you see these types of instances not holding back some pros from their victories, yet other obvious joke-decisions (like 94 NOC and 97 Olympia), it looks like judges pick and choose depending on numerous factors that are not always clear to outsiders - Nasser has seconded this as well.  

Manion once said to Ronnie Coleman during a guest posing at his yearly Pittsburgh (May) show where Ronnie was guest posing for free, that he had to return to the stage (he had gone backstage after just one minute of guest posing) otherwise Manion threatened to Ronnie that he would not win the next upcoming Mr. Olympia!  Ronnie was told this directly by Manion who went backstage to give him that message personally.  Ronnie hurried up and went back onstage and guest posed for many more minutes.  

Simply BS to assume there are no factors beyond one's physique alone that influence judging decisions!

Nirvana

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2010, 05:10:56 PM »
this is back when winners were only judged by their back, all their other bodyparts (lack their of) were ignored

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2010, 06:48:07 PM »
You didnt answer my question - if Nasser was indeed less muscular than Levrone - he must have been far ahead in some other criteria?  What criteria would that be?  Like you said Nasser won because Kevin's muscularity was off, yet according to the judges Kevin's muscularity was still greater than Nasser's - yet Nasser won - so what's missing here?

You're asking me to speculate on what was on the judges mind and I'm only working on assumption seeing I never seen the contest and don't recall seeing any pics

And I'm confused on what contest you're talking about? 99 where he won but lost the most muscular award? if that's the case Kevin may have been more muscular but still down in other aspects of the criteria , theyb have similar structures so no real advantage could have been a case of Nasser being sharper in the prejudging and edging out Kevin and then Kevin coming back at the night show sharper , but again I can't say because I have no information

but the point stands don't equate size with muscularity

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2010, 06:49:48 PM »
and lemme guess, Levrone was also "off" in the 96 Olympia, 97 Arnold Classic, 97 Olympia, 98 Olympia, 98 Arnold Classic and of course 99 Arnold Classic too?  ::)

Off from his usual and Nasser was on? sure absolutely

when Kevin was on he routinely beat Nasser when he was off he lost

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2010, 06:58:18 PM »
You're saying the judges punished Levrone for being too light at the 99 Arnold Classic but he lost to Nasser in every major show (Olympia and AC) prior to that all the way back to the 95 Olympia (95 Owas the last major show that Levrone beat Nasser in until the 99 Olympia which is after the 99 AC).  Or were the judges punishing Levrone for being light in all these shows?   ::)

Anyway I'm more curious on ND's explanation of how Nasser would win if Levrone is more muscular (since muscularity is one of Nasser's strongpoints), and since ND believes judging is ALWAYS right and there is no politics or "punishing"

Quote
You're saying the judges punished Levrone for being too light at the 99 Arnold Classic but he lost to Nasser in every major show (Olympia and AC) prior to that all the way back to the 95 Olympia (95 Owas the last major show that Levrone beat Nasser in until the 99 Olympia which is after the 99 AC).  Or were the judges punishing Levrone for being light in all these shows?   ::)

I always said , you get two versions of the Kevin , the light/shredded or huge/softish when he found the balance he was deadly and when he wasn't he was touchable

Quote
Anyway I'm more curious on ND's explanation of how Nasser would win if Levrone is more muscular (since muscularity is one of Nasser's strongpoints), and since ND believes judging is ALWAYS right and there is no politics or "punishing"

muscularity isn't really one of Nasser's strong points well let me amend that it was from the front and when he turned around he was soft , a very odd combo. Nasser was like Kevin in the same respects of lighter/harder and bigger/softer and I NEVER once claimed that the judges didn't punish competitors so do yourself a favor and don't put quotations around things I never claimed

The judges do punish guys especially if their conditioning is lacking , that usually more than anything separates first from second and stick politics up your ass , if there were politics involved in any win , it was involved in ALL of Nassers you can't have it both ways

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2010, 07:05:17 PM »
You think judges were unfairly placing Nasser ahead of Levrone in some shows, in contrast I feel judges were unfairly placing Wheeler ahead of Nasser in some shows.  Like I said my question about why nasser would win 99 AC to a "more muscular" Levrone is mainly towards ND since he t hinks judging never has flaws.

You're forgetting that all rounds are physique rounds , so when all things are considered Nasser could at that particular contest could satisfy ALL of the criteria better than Kevin on that day and still not be ' more muscular '

your problem is you don't know how contests are judged and draw your own conclusions , seeing all rounds are physique one can can have a clear advantage in a PART of the criteria in this case muscularity and still not win the contest because it doesn't favor part it favors the whole , one guy can't have outstanding symmetry but lacks muscular bulk and density & dryness , it's the man who satisfies the whole of the criteria is determined the winner

geneticmarvel

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2010, 07:51:16 PM »
Where are the fake calves? And the syn went into the delts...

The calves that nobody ever saw him train, or let anyone touch. Those ones.

bigbobs

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2010, 08:06:01 PM »
I always said , you get two versions of the Kevin , the light/shredded or huge/softish when he found the balance he was deadly and when he wasn't he was touchable

muscularity isn't really one of Nasser's strong points well let me amend that it was from the front and when he turned around he was soft , a very odd combo. Nasser was like Kevin in the same respects of lighter/harder and bigger/softer and I NEVER once claimed that the judges didn't punish competitors so do yourself a favor and don't put quotations around things I never claimed

The judges do punish guys especially if their conditioning is lacking , that usually more than anything separates first from second and stick politics up your ass , if there were politics involved in any win , it was involved in ALL of Nassers you can't have it both ways

I used quotations meaning Parker's definition he applied saying Levrone got "punished" by the judges meaning it was a political decision that they put him behidn Nasser even though Levrone looked better (all according to Parker).  But that would only make sense if Levrone was beating Nasser before the 99 AC and as I said that was not the case, so still curious for Parker to elaborate

However because you claim judging is always fair and there are never politics, I asked how can Nasser beaten Levrone overall while losing "muscularity", i.e. what rounds did Nasser beat Levrone in to not only overcome losing muscularity but winning overall - and I think you basically said you're not sure.

bigbobs

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2010, 08:07:28 PM »

when Kevin was on he routinely beat Nasser when he was off he lost

When Nasser was on he routinely beat Kevin when Nasser was off he lost

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2010, 08:47:40 PM »
Why dont you show other poses?  Oh yeah, because you are biased, forgot ;)


bobs could you plz make a pic. from that video when both nasser and flex were hitting the most muscular beside each other by the end of the posedown?!.. nasser was much better SHAPE wise and of course SIZE wise!!..

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2010, 08:50:09 PM »
There is a big difference muscular size and muscularity , which is why Dorian beat Haney in the muscularity round despite being 10lbs lighter

Nasser is carrying more size but it's not that dense , hard stripped muscular size , less fat less water = better muscularity

ok so according to you why didnt levrone beat him in 1999 since he was denser, had lesser BF, less water?? ::)

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2010, 08:54:19 PM »
You didnt answer my question - if Nasser was indeed less muscular than Levrone - he must have been far ahead in some other criteria?  What criteria would that be?  Like you said Nasser won because Kevin's muscularity was off, yet according to the judges Kevin's muscularity was still greater than Nasser's - yet Nasser won - so what's missing here?

sorry bobs i asked him the same question before noticing you had done it ;)


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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2010, 09:00:48 PM »
Can we just end all of this by saying:

Nasser is a great bodybuilder.

and

He is DESPISED as a person by a lot of people that influenced his destiny for a wide array of reasons.

Lesson in life people:

Life isn't black and white. It's shades of grey. People will be influenced by the grey. That's life. Always has been and always will be. Don't hate the players, hate the game. Better yet, play to win the game if you are going to play.

If you have the personality and likability factor of Nasser, you won't do as well in life as you could if you had the ability to influence people in a positive manner.

You will be complaining about contest placings 15 years later.

Don't make a Nasshole out of yourself.

School's out, kiddies!


Palpatine Q

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2010, 09:20:44 PM »
bobs could you plz make a pic. from that video when both nasser and flex were hitting the most muscular beside each other by the end of the posedown?!.. nasser was much better SHAPE wise and of course SIZE wise!!..

Shape wise........HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nasser looked like a big block of cheap sandwich meat next to the Great Flex Wheeler.

No comparison, Flex was a much, much better BBer than Nasser el ShitBacky

Danimal77

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2010, 09:23:26 PM »


I think Ronnie should have come in ahead of Mike Francois. For everyone bashing Nasser, because of his flaws, Wheeler had many flaws as well. His thighs were thin and narrow. His triceps were piss poor. You even see wheeler flexing his tiny and undefined triceps next to Nasser and nothing is really happening. Lastly, Wheeler had the tiniest chest I've ever seen on a pro bodybuilder. He had no size/no mass in that department whatsoever. Was he scared of doing bench presses? He just didn't impress me. That being said, his 1993 physique did.

The way I would have placed it was: 1. Nasser, 2. Coleman, 3. Wheeler, 4. Taylor, 5. Dillet, 6. Francois.

Danimal77

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2010, 09:26:53 PM »
;D

Yeah but ND, turn them around and it's a different song altogether. Wheeler looked like a boy next to Nasser from the front (with exception to biceps).

Would have liked to have seen Levrone compete that year.

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2010, 11:05:35 PM »
Yeah but ND, turn them around and it's a different song altogether. Wheeler looked like a boy next to Nasser from the front (with exception to biceps).

Would have liked to have seen Levrone compete that year.

levrone was there but he was clearly off and placed 8th!!..

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2010, 11:55:50 PM »
Can we just end all of this by saying:

Nasser is a great bodybuilder.

and

He is DESPISED as a person by a lot of people that influenced his destiny for a wide array of reasons.

Lesson in life people:

Life isn't black and white. It's shades of grey. People will be influenced by the grey. That's life. Always has been and always will be. Don't hate the players, hate the game. Better yet, play to win the game if you are going to play.

If you have the personality and likability factor of Nasser, you won't do as well in life as you could if you had the ability to influence people in a positive manner.

You will be complaining about contest placings 15 years later.

Don't make a Nasshole out of yourself.

School's out, kiddies!



that sums it up...

dry those tears nasserboys... and stop living in the past...

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2010, 01:37:31 AM »
ok so according to you why didnt levrone beat him in 1999 since he was denser, had lesser BF, less water?? ::)

T

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2010, 02:29:22 AM »
Why are people comparing Nasser to Flex. You can make an easy argument for putting Flex in the top 5 bodybuilders of ALL time, yet Nasser is far into the rankings in the double figures.

Parker

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2010, 02:41:30 AM »
Back to Parker, you said that Cormier deserved to beat Cutler but didn't because he has a bad rep and may have been a woman beater, but there are stories of Dexter beating his wife before and he won the Olympia.  Also stories of Wheeler acting violent to women (he got 5 years probation in one instance), and of course the grapefruit sexer Kai yet that didn't stop him from winning it.  Bannout even  won the Olympia even though he had domestic violence issues for many years.  Samir once even choked Joe Weider in his office and knocked out a British judge after the British Grand Prix which got him a "lifetime" suspension at the time that was later lifted.  When you see these types of instances not holding back some pros from their victories, yet other obvious joke-decisions (like 94 NOC and 97 Olympia), it looks like judges pick and choose depending on numerous factors that are not always clear to outsiders - Nasser has seconded this as well.  

Manion once said to Ronnie Coleman during a guest posing at his yearly Pittsburgh (May) show where Ronnie was guest posing for free, that he had to return to the stage (he had gone backstage after just one minute of guest posing) otherwise Manion threatened to Ronnie that he would not win the next upcoming Mr. Olympia!  Ronnie was told this directly by Manion who went backstage to give him that message personally.  Ronnie hurried up and went back onstage and guest posed for many more minutes.  

Simply BS to assume there are no factors beyond one's physique alone that influence judging decisions!
Cormier's incident happened about a yr after the OJ incident. Flex or Musclemag even ran a article comparing the two.  Ahmo was a prominant figure model, and far more prettier than Nicole Brown Simpson (and Ahmo is rumored to be a cokehead). Then you have CC's drug habit (nubain and rec drugs) that was getting bad.  Cutler was coming along at a time where he was being propped up as the "savior", because Gunter was failing at it. If you look at 2002,03,04 Arnold's you'll see that Culter didn't deserve any wins. And when they turned their backs, who Cormier had him beat by miles.

Dex's issues, were almost a decade after CC's, and CC's was at time time when that type of incident involving BM/WW would have been put under a manifying glass. I think there were judges that remember that, and also see CC as some type of pimp/thug with his cornrows, smirk, and tats.

Wheeler's situation was tha he apparently had threatened his brother's girlfriend about his brother going to jail...Basically victim/witness intimidation. Which there are charges for. Now I do agree that judges tend to pick and choose. But less face it, as Mattazzo had said, "Flex looks like he was hand painted by God", this was in regards to his 1993 conditioning and shape. He just "looks" aesthetically better, and at the end of the day, the judges will pick what maybe most pleasing to the eye, with the required amount of musculature and conditioning. Unfortunatedly Nasser was the odd man out, and Milos was even more so. Imagine having that physique but somehow you cannot develop arms to match it.

Also, for Flex's 1997 vid, "Mass Construction" he did chest, and for his 1993 vid he did chest. Remember, Flex was 5'9-5'10 and 215-230 at his best in contest, he was not by any means a mass monster. Because he had tiny joints and small waist, he gave the illusion of size---size which he didn't have.

Wiggs

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Re: AC 1997 (Nasser's Routine + Finals)!!..
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2010, 02:45:07 AM »
LMAO!!  You gotta love you Bobs is trying to compare Flex Wheeler one of the greatest of all time to Nasser who in most cases couldn't beat Wheeler and he outweighed him by 50lbs...It goes to show you how awesome Flex was everything was in the right place and in most cases his conditioning was never what it could have been with the exception of 93 AC, 93 O, and 98 AC.  Nasser isn't even on Flex's level.  You can say what you want about him outsizing him, cause it just makes Nasser look worse that a guy 50lbs lighter beat him when he was in shape.

BTW Bobs, Kai rapes Nasser like a grapefruit on a Saturday night.  How do you like them apples?
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