Dorian Yates - overrated!

[RocketSwitch625]

Youre the one in denial, you ruckin fetard.
Ronnie Coleman HIMSELF has stated that 98 was his best several times. (Oh, and hint, its not the night he won the show, cause hes gonna say he was better last year. Lol)
Btw, Ronnie is fuller in 99 but not as dry.
Mass+conditioning+Balance=win 98 Ronnie would beat 99 Ronnie everytime. He was DRYER.
But I guess you know better than Ronnie himself, right Hulkster?

No matter how many times you tell Sulkster he's not going to listen. His mind is already made up. Someone needs to tell him that opinions are like aresholes.

[Option D]

You just think i'm an asshole because I make fun of you for having gay drunken parties where you kiss other dudes, and feel up college bois thighs, and generally act gay.

 It's your fault for posting those pics online....

Thats hilarious

[lovemonkey]

 

[FREAKgeek]

Don't be playin' the oversharpend card now.

[JP_RC]

He's a gimmick he's posted in the Truce thread and knows they whole ' argument ' the best part is he's defending Hulkster and the 99 screencaps it's probably Bizzy LMFAO he disappeared after Kevin Horton exposed him lol poor Hulkster was forced to take all the embarrassment himself

lol, you're funnier than I am.

I'm not a gimmick and I'm not this "Bizzy" character you're referring to.

And I did post in the truce thread though, he probably knows this. I'm not trying to defend Hulkster, just showing how good Ronnie looked in 1999 as opposed to what this pro Dorian guy posted in a video first.

[NarcissisticDeity]

lol, you're funnier than I am.

I'm not a gimmick and I'm not this "Bizzy" character you're referring to.

And I did post in the truce thread though, he probably knows this. I'm not trying to defend Hulkster, just showing how good Ronnie looked in 1999 as opposed to what this pro Dorian guy posted in a video first.

You're a gimmick don't bother wasting your time. and Ronnie looked awesome in 1999 NOT his best specifically because his density & dryness was lacking from the previous year and compared to 2001

I think Ronnie looks better fuller however it doesn't change the fact he wasn't as hard or as dry

[JP_RC]

You don't even know wtf im arguing with Hulkster about, yet you jump in and try and defend him. Lol. And you call us nut huggers. 

I wasn't trying to defend him, I'm just standing on what I see and I see Ronnie with amazing conditioning in 1999.
Plus, I didn't mind much about your "argument" with Hulkster. I was just refuting your original bad quality video posted of Ronnie in 1999, to show how he actually looked better as in the accused prejudging video.

I never called any of you a "guy" by the way.

[JP_RC]

Hahahahaha you're a funny gimmick  Ronnie looked awesome in 1999 , it's not his best by a long shot and still not on par with Yates

Ronnie looked awesome in 1999

Agreed 100%

it's not his best by a long shot and still not on par with Yates

I can't agree with you here, especially on the Yates comparison.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I wasn't trying to defend him, I'm just standing on what I see and I see Ronnie with amazing conditioning in 1999.
Plus, I didn't mind much about your "argument" with Hulkster. I was just refuting your original bad quality video posted of Ronnie in 1999, to show how he actually looked better as in the accused prejudging video.

I never called any of you a "guy" by the way.

You were defending him stop being contrary

[JP_RC]

You're a gimmick don't bother wasting your time. and Ronnie looked awesome in 1999 NOT his best specifically because his density & dryness was lacking from the previous year and compared to 2001

I think Ronnie looks better fuller however it doesn't change the fact he wasn't as hard or as dry

You were saying I'm this Bizzy guy, but I'm not.

I agree Ronnie wasn't as dry as 1998, but he was bigger, fuller and greatly conditioned too. I see Ronnie being sharper in 99 compared to 98, his detail and separations were much more pronounced and the striations were crazy. Those things as important in my eyes as far as conditioning goes, not only dryness.
Overall I think his best was 1999. I know you're basing the statement of 1998 being his best on the fact that he was drier and I know all judges look for are muscular bulk and dryness/density. The question is was it enough to top his 99 form? I don't think so.

[NarcissisticDeity]

You were saying I'm this Bizzy guy, but I'm not.

I agree Ronnie wasn't as dry as 1998, but he was bigger, fuller and greatly conditioned too. I see Ronnie being sharper in 99 compared to 98, his detail and separations were much more pronounced and the striations were crazy. Those things as important in my eyes as far as conditioning goes, not only dryness.
Overall I think his best was 1999. I know you're basing the statement of 1998 being his best on the fact that he was drier and I know all judges look for are muscular bulk and dryness/density. The question is was it enough to top his 99 form? I don't think so.

You're contradicting yourself you're agreeing he wasn't as dry in 98 then say he was sharper in 99 with better detail and separations and crazy striations

you need to learn what conditioning is because you're flat-out saying he's better conditioned in 99 but admitting he's not

[JP_RC]

You were defending him stop being contrary

If that's what you want to think, I'm fine with that. 

[JP_RC]

You're contradicting yourself you're agreeing he wasn't as dry in 98 then say he was sharper in 99 with better detail and separations and crazy striations

you need to learn what conditioning is because you're flat-out saying he's better conditioned in 99 but admitting he's not

So when someone is drier it means he automatically has to have better separations and detail?

As an example of what I was trying to say is this: Dorian was probably the driest competitor back in the 90's, but did he have the best separations and details? No, Shawn Ray had much better separations and detail despite not being as dry.

[NarcissisticDeity]

So when someone is drier it means he automatically has to have better separations and detail?

As an example of what I was trying to say is this: Dorian was probably the driest competitor back in the 90's, but did he have the best separations and details? No, Shawn Ray had much better separations and detail despite not being as dry.

NO separations and striations and detail are all genetic , obviously someone needs to be devoid of bodyfat and water to see them but in the end genetics

It's exactly the reason why Munzer as was Hamdullah Aykutlu were unmatched in this area

And Shawn was probably just as dry as Dorian the difference between Shawn and Dorian was density , it's one thing to be 205 pounds and dry and hard and next to impossible to be the same being 260 , which is why Ronnie's density & dryness suffered with just a 8 pound size advantage from 98-to-99

The combo of size , hardness and dryness is highly prized by the judges

[JP_RC]

NO separations and striations and detail are all genetic , obviously someone needs to be devoid of bodyfat and water to see them but in the end genetics

It's exactly the reason why Munzer as was Hamdullah Aykutlu were unmatched in this area

And Shawn was probably just as dry as Dorian the difference between Shawn and Dorian was density , it's one thing to be 205 pounds and dry and hard and next to impossible to be the same being 260 , which is why Ronnie's density & dryness suffered with just a 8 pound size advantage from 98-to-99

The combo of size , hardness and dryness is highly prized by the judges

Ok, I can understand your point.

[Shockwave]

NO separations and striations and detail are all genetic , obviously someone needs to be devoid of bodyfat and water to see them but in the end genetics

It's exactly the reason why Munzer as was Hamdullah Aykutlu were unmatched in this area

And Shawn was probably just as dry as Dorian the difference between Shawn and Dorian was density , it's one thing to be 205 pounds and dry and hard and next to impossible to be the same being 260 , which is why Ronnie's density & dryness suffered with just a 8 pound size advantage from 98-to-99

The combo of size , hardness and dryness is highly prized by the judges

qft
I noticed a lot of people on here like to explain why the judges would pick Ronnie over Dorian, or say things like taper striations, etc, when throughout BB history it's almost always the guy that has the best combo of size, hardness, and dryness while still being complete. Regardless of how you feel like bb should be judged, that is how it is.
Size, density (hardness), and dryness it's that simple.

[NarcissisticDeity]

qft
I noticed a lot of people on here like to explain why the judges would pick Ronnie over Dorian, or say things like taper striations, etc, when throughout BB history it's almost always the guy that has the best combo of size, hardness, and dryness while still being complete. Regardless of how you feel like bb should be judged, that is how it is.
Size, density (hardness), and dryness it's that simple.

Great post ! you sir get exactly how it works. It ain't whose physique is ' prettier ' or who has the smaller waist and joints it's who has the best combo of size , density , dryness , balance & proportion and posing & presentation and that was Dorian

The combo of size , density & dryness can't be understated it's what carried Yates to victory in 1997

[JP_RC]

qft
I noticed a lot of people on here like to explain why the judges would pick Ronnie over Dorian, or say things like taper striations, etc, when throughout BB history it's almost always the guy that has the best combo of size, hardness, and dryness while still being complete. Regardless of how you feel like bb should be judged, that is how it is.
Size, density (hardness), and dryness it's that simple.

I don't think size is related 100% to bodyweight though. There are many other things that determine how much a person weighs, its the visual impact of muscle   mass that seems more important to me. Whether the competitor is a bit lighter or heavier.

One of the most important things you mentioned here is: "while still being complete", Dorian wasn't always complete in my eyes. He had the muscular bulk, he had the density and dryness, but he wasn't complete all the time.

[Hulkster]

Not a huge fan of either but Ronnie's pregnant look is an abomination to everything bb is about.

agreed about the gut but realize that dorian yates himself started this trend way back when ronnie was getting beat by people with names like Alq and Porter

[JP_RC]

Great post ! you sir get exactly how it works. It ain't whose physique is ' prettier ' or who has the smaller waist and joints it's who has the best combo of size , density , dryness , balance & proportion and posing & presentation and that was Dorian

The combo of size , density & dryness can't be understated it's what carried Yates to victory in 1997

I've been realizing that what the judges looked for back then was just that: Size, density & dryness and who had the biggest-widest back.
Its the only explanation I can understand of why Dorian won six straight Olympias.
I'm not pretty sure if judges were taking balance & proportion and symmetry into consideration though, at the 1992, 1994 and 1997 Olympias.
And they definitively didn't care about things like muscle separation, striations, details, tie-ins, muscle shape, taper, etc.

I've realized judging was much simpler than I thought.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I don't size is related 100% to weight though. There are many other things that determine how much a person weighs, its the visual impact of muscle   mass that seems more important to me. Whether the competitor is a bit lighter or heavier.

One of the most important things you mentioned here is: "while still being complete", Dorian wasn't always complete in my eyes. He had the muscular bulk, he had the density and dryness, but he wasn't complete all the time.

I don't size is related 100% to weight though. There are many other things that determine how much a person weighs, its the visual impact of muscle   mass that seems more important to me. Whether the competitor is a bit lighter or heavier.

the visual impact of muscle? all muscle isn't muscle per sa , there is a vast difference between 257 pounds and hard as nails and dry as hell , than 257 pounds and lacking in these areas . hence why the judges clearly favor density , size and dryness

One of the most important things you mentioned here is: "while still being complete", Dorian wasn't always complete in my eyes. He had the muscular bulk, he had the density and dryness, but he wasn't complete all the time.

he was always ' complete ' albeit had torn muscles , at his best he was the most complete , balanced , dry , hard and massive bodybuilder to this day

[Hulkster]

I see Ronnie being sharper in 99 compared to 98, his detail and separations were much more pronounced and the striations were crazy. Those things as important in my eyes as far as conditioning goes, not only dryness.
Overall I think his best was 1999. I know you're basing the statement of 1998 being his best on the fact that he was drier and I know all judges look for are muscular bulk and dryness/density. The question is was it enough to top his 99 form? I don't think so.

well said. and every word is corroborated by the pics and videos.

much to the dismay of the nuthuggers on this thread. 

[JP_RC]

the visual impact of muscle? all muscle isn't muscle per sa , there is a vast difference between 257 pounds and hard as nails and dry as hell , than 257 pounds and lacking in these areas . hence why the judges clearly favor density , size and dryness

he was always ' complete ' albeit had torn muscles , at his best he was the most complete , balanced , dry , hard and massive bodybuilder to this day

the visual impact of muscle? all muscle isn't muscle per sa , there is a vast difference between 257 pounds and hard as nails and dry as hell , than 257 pounds and lacking in these areas . hence why the judges clearly favor density , size and dryness

You can have a bodybuilder weighing more than another, but the latter "looking" or giving the impression of being bigger because of things like small joints, better muscle insertions, better shape, etc. Its the same reason you were saying how Flex beat Nasser despite being lighter.

he was always ' complete ' albeit had torn muscles , at his best he was the most complete , balanced , dry , hard and massive bodybuilder to this day

I'm going to have to disagree. I didn't see Dorian being complete everytime as far as balance & proportions and symmetry compared to his top competition back then.

[MindSpin]

OP is an asshole but I agree. 

That's the best avatar I've seen in a while.

[Hulkster]

The old Ronnie is a liar bit huh? Ronnie is a liar according to you every single time except when he said right after the 1999 Olympia he was better than last year but then he got it all right lmao HYPOCRITE

facts are Ronnie was harder & drier in 1998 and his best showing was 2001 ASC , keep denying them it's all you have left 

you STILL don't understand the definition of the word "liar" do you?

you are not using the word correctly at all.