.

[Figo]

Uprights, medium grip.

Ray Mcneil and Yates had some of the best complete traps ever.

[dyslexic]

Sorry to say bro there are just some muscles on a natural that will never "pop" like that.  It's the cold hard truth.  That's why guys use steroids.  You can achieve a decent, impressive physique naturally but as a natural there are some things you'll never achieve.  Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass like a pro or juiced up bodybuilder don't expect to look like them.  It's naive and will set you up for disappointment.  Obviously the idiots in this thread arguing over what exercise is best are too inexperienced or too stupid to realize this.  If you want to look like a juicer you'll have to use drugs like a juice does.  Otherwise we'd all be training naturally if we could achieve the same results.  3/4 of the people giving you advice on here have probably never trained on drugs so they don't understand that.  Or they have never trained long enough naturally to realize what a real natural can attain without drugs. 

I love seeing all these natural guys in the gym doing countless amounts of shrugs thinking they are going to have huge traps one day.  In my experience and in my opinion huge, muscular traps are one of the biggest dead giveaways a guy is on the juice.  A natural just can't develop his traps like a guy on drugs with the ability to put on more mass can.  There is no special exercise to make a muscle "pop".  It either gets bigger through hard heavy work or it doesn't.  Any idiot that says otherwise is just that.  This whole nonsense of bringing up a "lagging" body part is something that steroid using bodybuilders can do.  Not naturals.  Or atleast not to the same degree.  Your muscles just don't grow as fast as a natural. 

I had to copy and paste this into Microsoft Word. I've never really heard anyone come out and say it, but I've always believed it.


You watch a juiced bodybuilder "bring up a lagging bodypart" for the next show. What do you really see? What are you really seeing?


We have all seen the genetic freaks who don't even work out. Big huge calves, traps, delts, nice abs-- that's where the first statement rings true "Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass"-- but I have never seen a natty truly bring up a lagger. I've even seen heavy juicers bust their asses to try and bring up calves. That rarely even works.


Sad thing is; statements like these can kill the motivation for some hard workin' folks. Sad, but true...

[Coach is Back!]

why didnt you use a pic. of nasser to show your point in a clearer way

Because we've seen Nassers back.

[Thin Lizzy]

I had to copy and paste this into Microsoft Word. I've never really heard anyone come out and say it, but I've always believed it.


You watch a juiced bodybuilder "bring up a lagging bodypart" for the next show. What do you really see? What are you really seeing?


We have all seen the genetic freaks who don't even work out. Big huge calves, traps, delts, nice abs-- that's where the first statement rings true "Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass"-- but I have never seen a natty truly bring up a lagger. I've even seen heavy juicers bust their asses to try and bring up calves. That rarely even works.


Sad thing is; statements like these can kill the motivation for some hard workin' folks. Sad, but true...

It's not exactly some great, Jesus-like enlightenment to point out that nattys can't make the gains of steroid users.

However, nattys commonly have good enough arm and chest development so that it's obvious  they work out.  That said, from the back, most of these same guys don't look like they train at all.

Why? Because they either don't work their backs, or don't know how to do so properly. There's a difference between a lagging bodypart and one that isn't developed to its potential because you don't know how to train it.

[Hulkotron]

Tom Prince had good hamstrings and he was a great natural athlete.

[_bruce_]

well , unless you are carrying around the bodyweight of mike francois, your upper middle back will NEVER pop out like that


but what i believe works are controlled 3/4 deadlifts on the smith machine with a flexing of the upper back (roll your shoulders back) at the top of teh movement

 

[tbombz]

bent over barebll rows with a more narrow grip and slightly bent upwards

[Earl1972]

shrugs with your head facing down?

E

[MadeYaMelt]

That's just pure nonsense.  My entire high school wrestling team all had very well developed shoulder girdles and necks.

Yup.  People who claim steroids make a certain bodypart "pop out" are just showing their ignorance.  Hormones don't work that way - use some freakin common sense. 

That said, traps and calves really are some of the most genetically pre-determined body parts.  You can improve them, but if lack the genetics, they'll never "pop" and be outstanding points in your physique. 

[pellius]

Hmmm. I'm going to try this today. Thanks for the tip, Coach.

[El Diablo Blanco]

Hmmm. I'm going to try this today. Thanks for the tip, Coach.

Couldn't you just use a rope?

[Coach is Back!]

Couldn't you just use a rope?

We usually use a towel for grip strength. The knobs at the end of the ropes make it too easy to relax on the grip.

[pellius]

Couldn't you just use a rope?

LOL! I didn't even realize he was using a towel until you pointed it out. Funnier since it says "towel" in the title. I just assumed you would use a rope so that's what I "made" myself see.  I wouldn't consider doing any exercises with a towel.  

What's with the towel, Coach?

[pellius]

We usually use a towel for grip strength. The knobs at the end of the ropes make it too easy to relax on the grip.

But you're not training your grip. (Remember the wrist wraps for curls?)

[Coach is Back!]

But you're not training your grip. (Remember the wrist wraps for curls?)

I was using the wraps when I was training for that contest (bodybuilding). When we train for strength, I will try to incorporate some kind of grip strength in most movements for my athletes and especially my fighters.

[Van_Bilderass]

I had to copy and paste this into Microsoft Word. I've never really heard anyone come out and say it, but I've always believed it.


You watch a juiced bodybuilder "bring up a lagging bodypart" for the next show. What do you really see? What are you really seeing?


We have all seen the genetic freaks who don't even work out. Big huge calves, traps, delts, nice abs-- that's where the first statement rings true "Unless you are carrying around a certain amount of fat free mass"-- but I have never seen a natty truly bring up a lagger. I've even seen heavy juicers bust their asses to try and bring up calves. That rarely even works.


Sad thing is; statements like these can kill the motivation for some hard workin' folks. Sad, but true...

I've said it many times. People never change their proportions to any significant degree. Show me an advanced bb, natural or otherwise, who changed their proportions. Never happen, unless they were totally ignoring a bodypart before.

Now a natural who goes on the juice will most of the time increase their trap size and delt width as a response to the hormones. It's no myth, there is a certain androgen look and trap size is part of it.

[pellius]

I was using the wraps when I was training for that contest (bodybuilding). When we train for strength, I will try to incorporate some kind of grip strength in most movements for my athletes and especially my fighters.

I just feel that your grip is a weak link when training the back. Your back muscles are far stronger than your grip and your grip will fail before your lats do. First things first. I train grips/forearms separately by doing wrist curls/wrist extension and those grip squeeze things. I started focusing on grip strength when I first started training with a gi many years ago. I don't train with a gi anymore but still do grip/forearm exercises.

[Fatpanda]

I've said it many times. People never change their proportions to any significant degree. Show me an advanced bb, natural or otherwise, who changed their proportions. Never happen, unless they were totally ignoring a bodypart before.

Now a natural who goes on the juice will most of the time increase their trap size and delt width as a response to the hormones. It's no myth, there is a certain androgen look and trap size is part of it.

arnolds calves 

[Van_Bilderass]

arnolds calves 

People always talk about Arnold's calves but to me they were always good and in proportion. Great insertions too. Post some pics where they look like shit and seriously lagging compared to the rest.

[Lion666]

It's not exactly some great, Jesus-like enlightenment to point out that nattys can't make the gains of steroid users.

However, nattys commonly have good enough arm and chest development so that it's obvious  they work out.  That said, from the back, most of these same guys don't look like they train at all.

Why? Because they either don't work their backs, or don't know how to do so properly. There's a difference between a lagging bodypart and one that isn't developed to its potential because you don't know how to train it.

qft

backs a tough muscle to get the mind into, takes a while of doing it right to get it right

[Fatpanda]

People always talk about Arnold's calves but to me they were always good and in proportion. Great insertions too. Post some pics where they look like shit and seriously lagging compared to the rest.

ok here are his calves before he really focussed on them:


here they are after he took my advices:

[pellius]

I've said it many times. People never change their proportions to any significant degree. Show me an advanced bb, natural or otherwise, who changed their proportions. Never happen, unless they were totally ignoring a bodypart before.

Now a natural who goes on the juice will most of the time increase their trap size and delt width as a response to the hormones. It's no myth, there is a certain androgen look and trap size is part of it.

Spot as usual. I noticed that it's the trap/delt size and roundness that's a sure sign of heavy hormone use.

[pellius]

ok here are his calves before he really focussed on them:

Even in that pic it shows a good "base."

[Fatpanda]

Even in that pic it shows a good "base."