True Adonis (Adam) has been completely exposed...

[clued-up]

anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', jsut what works for you and what you can get away with.

Exactly.

[drkaje]

fancy degrees dont mean shit other than that youve spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours/years memorizing shit out of textbooks, especially one in 'nutrition' LMAO

bottom line is everyone's body is completely different when it comes to this shit, anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', jsut what works for you and what you can get away with.

You're generally a reasonable poster so it's possible you may understand the above statement is 100% wrong.

Someone without the proper foundation lacks the ability to discriminate fact from opinion, good from bad science, or even understand why statistics make no sense. For example... you can go on Wiki, YouTube or Google and search for "laptop computer construction", yet still not be able to assemble one successfully without having an actual foundation in electronics.

See my point?

True, every person is a little different but the basic physiology (among typical people) is pretty standard. I'm not arguing a cookie cutter approach will every one, simply that there's a basic set of rules that apply to most people.

You can't beat genetics, though. Look at how hard VinceG has tried!

[ManBearPig...]

See, stuff like this dude. Like I said, you WERE something. Now you are the equivalent to that giant chick in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.

Meanwhile, Goodrum and Adonis are still young, and getting better and better.

As for everyone laughing at them, what do you think people are doing when you ride around Walmart in that fat guy wheelchair thing?

adonis and vince are close to or over 30, and still neither have accomplished dick.

[Vince B]

Doing what works for you is an empty theory and therefore worthless.

[MindSpin]

fancy degrees dont mean shit other than that youve spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours/years memorizing shit out of textbooks, especially one in 'nutrition' LMAO

bottom line is everyone's body is completely different when it comes to this shit, anyone whose been at this long enough should know that genetics dictate everything. there is no 'right way' or 'wrong way', jsut what works for you and what you can get away with.

Connelly agrees with that.

[The True Adonis]

Why don't they just do the case study? 1 dude follows Adonis's stuff, the other guy gets fat, er, I mean does the bodybuilding diet. Have them both tested (just use the air fair and hotel money), and then measure the gains/losses.

Just debating would not work. Everyone blindly follows that crap, and Adonis will be walking into a controlled situation with him set up to fail.

You need a case study type thing.

Exactly.

The "debate" would just be fruitless as I would just show up with a box load of studies, set them on the table and ask, "Where do we begin".  I don`t think anyone would be willing to sit for hours to go through the studies on a video.

[Coach is Back!]

Connelly Diet - 3,000 to 4,000 calories

1 Bucket of KFC - 1725 calories



So if my caloric intake is equal to 2 buckets of KFC Fried Chicken but my macro-nutrients are balanced...I'm still going to lose weight......


I'm sorry but I used to follow the 300-400 grams of protein a day and etc.  But now I know better.  In order for the body to burn fat, it has to be in a caloric deficiency and need the extra calories for fuel. 

Adonis is right.  Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder.

I never counted calories in 30 + years when I came down for shows.

[MindSpin]

Adam, if get Connelly himself to post on here and invite you to the debate, will you accept then?  We'll have Ron verify the identity.

[Coach is Back!]

Can Dr. Connelly or yourself site those sources? Not doubting one bit, but for the last month I've been reading some studies about monozygotic twins compared with dizygotic twins suggesting that genetic factors contribute to dietary intake.

Mindspin can you answer this?

[The True Adonis]

Adam, if get Connelly himself to post on here and invite you to the debate, will you accept then?  We'll have Ron verify the identity.

I`d like to discuss it with him as I think an experiment would certainly prove more useful for everyone than a video debate.   Or a video debate after an experiment is completed.  I feel confident that this would be more beneficial for everyone as well.  No amount of debate will change a dogmatic mindset, but if we can create a case study based on evidence, that will add to the knowledge base and also provide a factual basis for people to derive knowledge from, I think that can be EXTREMELY useful. 

Dr. Connelly should not be opposed to this if he really believes strongly in his hypotheses and wants to truly test his theories.  This is a perfect opportunity to do so.  Also, we have a pool of willing participants ready and willing to do it all in the open.  As I said, I am sure 240orBust would be willing to set up a site to where we could follow daily which would contain blogs, methodology, supporting studies etc...

Lets let the results and evidence speak for themselves and then we can interpret them with a healthy debate. THAT is the way Science works.  I do not wish to market any products indirectly without being compensated and I certainly do not wish to market anything that has no Scientific basis or verifiable result.

[drkaje]

Adam, if get Connelly himself to post on here and invite you to the debate, will you accept then?  We'll have Ron verify the identity.

How good is his Wikijitsu?

[The True Adonis]

How good is his Wikijitsu?

I think Dr. Connelly knows the value of Published studies. (at least I hope so)  Do you think he should not have access to any?

[noworries]

I`d like to discuss it with him as I think an experiment would certainly prove more useful for everyone than a video debate.   Or a video debate after an experiment is completed.  I feel confident that this would be more beneficial for everyone as well.  No amount of debate will change a dogmatic mindset, but if we can create a case study based on evidence, that will add to the knowledge base and also provide a factual basis for people to derive knowledge from, I think that can be EXTREMELY useful. 

Dr. Connelly should not be opposed to this if he really believes strongly in his hypotheses and wants to truly test his theories.  This is a perfect opportunity to do so.  Also, we have a pool of willing participants ready and willing to do it all in the open.  As I said, I am sure 240orBust would be willing to set up a site to where we could follow daily which would contain blogs, methodology, supporting studies etc...

Lets let the results and evidence speak for themselves and then we can interpret them with a healthy debate. THAT is the way Science works.  I do not wish to market any products indirectly without being compensated and I certainly do not wish to market anything that has no Scientific basis or verifiable result.

You do realize Dr. Connelly has nothing to prove.  He has a couple decades of proof and mega success and worldwide exposure.  You on the other hand do not have one thing.  For him to even be in the same room with you is actually lowering his standards by alot.  You sure have alot of balls for someone who has nothing to bring to the fight but other peoples info and studies.  Honestly you are so laughable I don't even know how to say it.  You are even worse than your neighbor Goodrum

[drkaje]

I think Dr. Connelly knows the value of Published studies. (at least I hope so)  Do you think he should not have access to any?

Studies?! He don't need no steenkin' studies!

[The True Adonis]

My point is that nobody on this forum in a world authority in human nutrition. Many consider they are expert re nutrition for bodybuilding. However, I doubt much is really known about this area because it has not been studied independently because there is little academic interest in bodybuilders. The supplement companies are keenly interested and have sponsored some research but that is not what I call independent research.

Usually,we have to extrapolate from nutrition studies with athletes and/or the general population. Almost nothing is known about the nutritional needs of professional and amateur bodybuilders.

Your last statement is not true at all.  



http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/2/767

Journal of Applied Physiology, Vol 73, Issue 2 767-775, Copyright © 1992 by American Physiological Society

ARTICLES

Protein requirements and muscle mass/strength changes during intensive training in novice bodybuilders

P. W. Lemon, M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. Atkinson
School of Biomedical Sciences, Kent State University, Ohio 44242.

This randomized double-blind cross-over study assessed protein (PRO) requirements during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training and determined whether supplemental PRO intake (PROIN) enhanced muscle mass/strength gains. Twelve men [22.4 +/- 2.4 (SD) yr] received an isoenergetic PRO (total PROIN 2.62 g.kg-1.day-1) or carbohydrate (CHO; total PROIN 1.35 g.kg-1.day-1) supplement for 1 mo each during intensive (1.5 h/day, 6 days/wk) weight training. On the basis of 3-day nitrogen balance (NBAL) measurements after 3.5 wk on each treatment (8.9 +/- 4.2 and -3.4 +/- 1.9 g N/day, respectively), the PROIN necessary for zero NBAL (requirement) was 1.4-1.5 g.kg-1.day-1. The recommended intake (requirement + 2 SD) was 1.6-1.7 g.kg-1.day-1. However, strength (voluntary and electrically evoked) and muscle mass [density, creatinine excretion, muscle area (computer axial tomography scan), and biceps N content] gains were not different between diet treatments. These data indicate that, during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training, PRO needs are approximately 100% greater than current recommendations but that PROIN increases from 1.35 to 2.62 g.kg-1.day-1 do not enhance muscle mass/strength gains, at least during the 1st mo of training. Whether differential gains would occur with longer training remains to be determined.

[The True Adonis]

You do realize Dr. Connelly has nothing to prove.  He has a couple decades of proof and mega success and worldwide exposure.  You on the other hand do not have one thing.  For him to even be in the same room with you is actually lowering his standards by alot.  You sure have alot of balls for someone who has nothing to bring to the fight but other peoples info and studies.  Honestly you are so laughable I don't even know how to say it.  You are even worse than your neighbor Goodrum

Keith,  I met someone not too long ago that knew you from your charity work with Muscular Dystrophy and the Special Olympics.  He had nothing but kind words to say about you and considered you to have a "heart of gold".  After hearing from him how much you at one time cared for the less fortunate, (he said you were very emotional when it came to seeing disadvantaged children) I refuse to say anything negative about you.  

I personally feel that it will do you no good  for me or anyone to continually dump insults on you or in a reciprocating fashion.  Despite your current circumstances, I am sure the Keith with the "heart of gold" is in there somewhere and I do not want to do anything that would inhibit that side from showing.

I am truly sorry if I offended you in the past (I also wasn`t aware of other things that I was told) and I can promise you that you won`t hear a cross word from me.

I hope you get better overall and I do not want to see you go down a bitter route.  According to your friend, that is not you and I don`t think it is either.

[240 is Back]

i havent read this thread, but Vince is right on this one:

"Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder. "

[The True Adonis]

My point is that nobody on this forum in a world authority in human nutrition. Many consider they are expert re nutrition for bodybuilding. However, I doubt much is really known about this area because it has not been studied independently because there is little academic interest in bodybuilders. The supplement companies are keenly interested and have sponsored some research but that is not what I call independent research.

Usually,we have to extrapolate from nutrition studies with athletes and/or the general population. Almost nothing is known about the nutritional needs of professional and amateur bodybuilders.

This one is for you to peruse Vince given the age of the participants-What are your thoughts on this particular study?

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/274/4/E677

     ABSTRACT
  
This study tested the hypothesis that increasing the protein content of isocaloric meals increases the rate of myofibrillar synthesis in muscle of healthy subjects over 60 yr old and enhances the stimulation of myofibrillar synthesis induced by resistance exercise. Myofibrillar synthesis of sedentary and exercised quadriceps muscle was determined by incorporation of L-[1-13C]leucine. During the tracer infusion, subjects consumed meals with a low (7% of energy, n = 6)-, normal (14%, n = 6)-, or high (28%, n = 6)-protein content. In sedentary muscle, the mean (± SE) myofibrillar synthesis was 1.56 ± 0.13%/day in the low-protein group, 1.73 ± 0.11 %/day in the normal-protein group, and 1.76 ± 0.10%/day in the high-protein group (P = 0.42). Myofibrillar synthesis was faster in exercised muscle (mean 27%, P < 106) in all groups (2.10 ± 0.14 %/day in low protein; 2.18 ± 0.10 %/day in normal protein; 2.11 ± 0.09 %/day in high protein; P = 0.84). The stimulation of myofibrillar synthesis by exercise was not significantly different among low-protein [0.54 ± 0.12 %/day (37 ± 9%)], normal-protein [0.46 ± 0.08 %/day (28 ± 5%)], and high-protein groups [0.34 ± 0.04 %/day (20 ± 3%); P = 0.31]. We conclude that high-protein meals do not enhance the stimulation of myofibrillar protein synthesis induced by resistance exercise.

[Coach is Back!]

Adam quit posting shit you don't understand, seriously.

[MindSpin]

Adam, are you interested in funding a study?  If so let me know.  If not, let's have the debate.  I want to you describe your "Adonis Principles" and then hear what Scott has to say about them.

[nycbull]

i havent read this thread, but Vince is right on this one:

"Calories do count and while you can't just eat candy and sugar all day, you certainly can't fall for nutritional nonsense thats being circulated to sell more protein powder. "

I dont think Adonis said to eat candy and sugar all day, he said as long as you get the USRDA of nutrients then you could eat whatever you want albeit sugar and candy,and lose weight as long as you were burning more caloiries.

[MindSpin]

Mindspin can you answer this?

Coach, there are several great studies on this.  Let me find the links and I'll post it.

[Coach is Back!]

Ok, thanks.

[The True Adonis]

Adam, are you interested in funding a study?  If so let me know.  If not, let's have the debate.  I want to you describe your "Adonis Principles" and then hear what Scott has to say about them.

I am HIGHLY interested in funding a study.

[noworries]

I am HIGHLY interested in funding a study.

Good idea.  Since you are so rich you should have done this before.  Can you tell us now when you will start the study.  Do you know how much it will take and are you going to make the deposit into the account tomorrow.  Can you tell us how much you will be using to fund the study.  Thanks and good job stepping forward to fund this study.  Finally you are stepping up to the plate.  I am proud of you.