Police State - Official Thread

[The Enigma]

Yes but in those 93% of cases you bet your ass that the guy who did it will be prosecuted.

Incorrect, 46% of Baltimore murders go unsolved, thus not prosecuted.

Please get your 'facts' straight before discussing subject matter.

[whork]

Incorrect, 46% of Baltimore murders go unsolved, thus not prosecuted.

Please get your 'facts' straight before discussing subject matter.

There will be no prosecution if the murder goes unsolved.
But thanks for pointing out the obvious.

[Skip8282]

There will be no prosecution if the murder goes unsolved.
But thanks for pointing out the obvious.

 

[Agnostic007]

So it's ok when cops gravely injure someone who is in their custody and then repeatedly refuse to provide prompt emergency medical car because he has a rap sheet? Go fuck yourself troll.

I think it is inconclusive at this point if the cops gravely injured Freddie Gray. They may have, but at this point that is not clear. What is clear is the lack of concern for his distress. That they did not call for EMS is not right. 

[avxo]

I think it is inconclusive at this point if the cops gravely injured Freddie Gray. They may have, but at this point that is not clear. What is clear is the lack of concern for his distress. That they did not call for EMS is not right. 

Whether they did or not isn't important to the point I was trying to make. 2Thick suggested that what happened is, somehow ok, because of Gray's rap sheet; he basically suggests that if you have a rap sheet you're a second class citizen, whose life can be snuffed out by cops. This is legally wrong and fundamentally immoral.

To your point: I'm not privy to all the evidence so I can't say if these cops injured Gray. Not that my opinion will matter since I won't be on the jury. But from what we have heard - and seen - so far the conclusion that Gray suffered grave injuries at some point after he was originally arrested and before arriving at the station, while in the custody of Baltimore police is inescapable. Furthermore, the type of injury he is alleged to have is unlikely to be self inflicted, especially in the confined space he was in. And if the injury wasn't self-inflicted, there's only one other option. We'll see what comes out during the trial.

By the way, I take exception at the FOP statement that these officers did their job. The FOP, and statements like that, is why the public is growing weary. Even if the cops hadn't injured Gray, Gray was in their custody and they had a duty and an obligation to provide him with prompt medical attention which they didn't do.

[Agnostic007]

Whether they did or not isn't important to the point I was trying to make. 2Thick suggested that what happened is, somehow ok, because of Gray's rap sheet; he basically suggests that if you have a rap sheet you're a second class citizen, whose life can be snuffed out by cops. This is legally wrong and fundamentally immoral.

To your point: I'm not privy to all the evidence so I can't say if these cops injured Gray. Not that my opinion will matter since I won't be on the jury. But from what we have heard - and seen - so far the conclusion that Gray suffered grave injuries at some point after he was originally arrested and before arriving at the station, while in the custody of Baltimore police is inescapable. Furthermore, the type of injury he is alleged to have is unlikely to be self inflicted, especially in the confined space he was in. And if the injury wasn't self-inflicted, there's only one other option. We'll see what comes out during the trial.

By the way, I take exception at the FOP statement that these officers did their job. The FOP, and statements like that, is why the public is growing weary. Even if the cops hadn't injured Gray, Gray was in their custody and they had a duty and an obligation to provide him with prompt medical attention which they didn't do.

If I don't point out these things as they come up, 240 will likely quote it as fact. I agree with you. Regardless of a persons rap sheet, or how depraved an individual is, (this includes any person arrested by the police for any crime) once they are in police custody they should not be at risk of further injury by the police. I was shocked to hear that the seatbelt policy only came into effect 9 days before this happened. We've had a policy that prisoners must be seatbelted in prior to transport since at least the mid 90's.

I think when they were placing him in the van initially there were indications an injury had occurred. It may have been aggravated by rolling around in the van, or the damage may already have been done. That they didn't call EMS is just plain stupid on their part and they dropped the ball. Someone died, maybe due to the medical care not being given 30 minutes sooner, maybe not but I would hold them responsible for not acting upon information they had.

I too dislike FOP blanket statements like that. It does more harm than good. I have quit my Association 2 times in 22 years over disagreements like that. We should call a duck a duck. The TRUTH is what is important and what should always matter in any event. When we play politics, we become the very people we detest.   

 

[avxo]

If I don't point out these things as they come up, 240 will likely quote it as fact. I agree with you. Regardless of a persons rap sheet, or how depraved an individual is, (this includes any person arrested by the police for any crime) once they are in police custody they should not be at risk of further injury by the police. I was shocked to hear that the seatbelt policy only came into effect 9 days before this happened. We've had a policy that prisoners must be seatbelted in prior to transport since at least the mid 90's.

I think when they were placing him in the van initially there were indications an injury had occurred. It may have been aggravated by rolling around in the van, or the damage may already have been done. That they didn't call EMS is just plain stupid on their part and they dropped the ball. Someone died, maybe due to the medical care not being given 30 minutes sooner, maybe not but I would hold them responsible for not acting upon information they had.

I too dislike FOP blanket statements like that. It does more harm than good. I have quit my Association 2 times in 22 years over disagreements like that. We should call a duck a duck. The TRUTH is what is important and what should always matter in any event. When we play politics, we become the very people we detest.

We need more officers like you.

[whork]

If I don't point out these things as they come up, 240 will likely quote it as fact. I agree with you. Regardless of a persons rap sheet, or how depraved an individual is, (this includes any person arrested by the police for any crime) once they are in police custody they should not be at risk of further injury by the police. I was shocked to hear that the seatbelt policy only came into effect 9 days before this happened. We've had a policy that prisoners must be seatbelted in prior to transport since at least the mid 90's.

I think when they were placing him in the van initially there were indications an injury had occurred. It may have been aggravated by rolling around in the van, or the damage may already have been done. That they didn't call EMS is just plain stupid on their part and they dropped the ball. Someone died, maybe due to the medical care not being given 30 minutes sooner, maybe not but I would hold them responsible for not acting upon information they had.

I too dislike FOP blanket statements like that. It does more harm than good. I have quit my Association 2 times in 22 years over disagreements like that. We should call a duck a duck. The TRUTH is what is important and what should always matter in any event. When we play politics, we become the very people we detest.   

Can/will you elaborate on this?

[Agnostic007]

Can/will you elaborate on this?

We have collective bargaining in our state. Unions are not permitted for cops. Everyone is encouraged to join and you pay monthly dues. They are supposed to be a collective voice for the rank and file. The first time I quit was as a Detective in the mid 90's when I opposed some of the contract issues as well as some political things going on with the representatives at the time. After that administration left I rejoined and things were fine for awhile. I didn't agree with everything they did but that is normal. As I rose up the ranks I noticed the association was focused more on the officer level and would tend to support officers for things I felt didn't need supporting. A new radical president was elected who was anti management and very antagonistic towards management and the Chief in particular. It got to the point he was painting management as bad guys when we were ALL officers and ALL paying dues. After repeated attempts to address his behavior I decided it was silly to pay money to an organization that was attacking me at every opportunity. (The officer rank makes up a vast majority of members so they tend to pander to them and ignore the others. ) I quit for several years until recently when they got a new president in that appears to be level headed and reasonable.   

[Agnostic007]

We need more officers like you.

Ironically, most of the officers I work around think about the same way. They just don't have an account here.

[whork]

We have collective bargaining in our state. Unions are not permitted for cops. Everyone is encouraged to join and you pay monthly dues. They are supposed to be a collective voice for the rank and file. The first time I quit was as a Detective in the mid 90's when I opposed some of the contract issues as well as some political things going on with the representatives at the time. After that administration left I rejoined and things were fine for awhile. I didn't agree with everything they did but that is normal. As I rose up the ranks I noticed the association was focused more on the officer level and would tend to support officers for things I felt didn't need supporting. A new radical president was elected who was anti management and very antagonistic towards management and the Chief in particular. It got to the point he was painting management as bad guys when we were ALL officers and ALL paying dues. After repeated attempts to address his behavior I decided it was silly to pay money to an organization that was attacking me at every opportunity. (The officer rank makes up a vast majority of members so they tend to pander to them and ignore the others. ) I quit for several years until recently when they got a new president in that appears to be level headed and reasonable.   

Thanks.

You seem very intelligent and reasonable and I bet you are a good cop as well.

[Agnostic007]

Thanks.

You seem very intelligent and reasonable and I bet you are a good cop as well.

Thank you. I'm not certain about the intelligent part, but from day 1 I've strived to be a good cop. It can get easy to forget the importance almost anything we do in uniform in public has. From responding to a high risk call all the way down to simply eating your lunch at a diner. Everything is watched and everything is judged. I always try to remember that. My brother was a cop in Ft. Worth who retired a few years ago. He would tell me he had a game he would play whenever he felt burned out, or was going to another one of those calls you really hate to take. He said he would make it a point that on that call, on that day, he would do his very best to give that person the best police service they had ever seen. I used that trick many many times in my career and it served me well.

I've got about 12-18 months left before I throw in the towel. It's been at times very trying, very frustrating, and mentally and physically exhausting at times, but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. I hope I leave my Department and the units I have worked for and overseen better than when I found them.

[illuminati]

Thank you. I'm not certain about the intelligent part, but from day 1 I've strived to be a good cop. It can get easy to forget the importance almost anything we do in uniform in public has. From responding to a high risk call all the way down to simply eating your lunch at a diner. Everything is watched and everything is judged. I always try to remember that. My brother was a cop in Ft. Worth who retired a few years ago. He would tell me he had a game he would play whenever he felt burned out, or was going to another one of those calls you really hate to take. He said he would make it a point that on that call, on that day, he would do his very best to give that person the best police service they had ever seen. I used that trick many many times in my career and it served me well.

I've got about 12-18 months left before I throw in the towel. It's been at times very trying, very frustrating, and mentally and physically exhausting at times, but I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. I hope I leave my Department and the units I have worked for and overseen better than when I found them.

What you say there is very admirable.
👍🏻

[Agnostic007]

Thank you, that's very kind











What you say there is very admirable.
👍🏻

[avxo]

Ironically, most of the officers I work around think about the same way. They just don't have an account here.

Well, that is a problem. Do they even lift!?

[Skeletor]

Suburban Georgia sheriff 'who shot woman inside a model home' is allowed to leave the scene after he refuses to cooperate with police questioning

-Clayton County, Georgia, Sheriff Victor Hill believed to have shot woman at model home near Atlanta suburb Lawrenceville on Sunday night
-Victim Gwenevere McCord, a real estate agent who knew him, was taken to hospital in critical condition and still unconscious Monday morning
-Hill legally allowed to leave scene because he is an active police officer and can't be arrested without warrant from Superior Court judge
-Sheriff re-elected after beating more than 20 corruption charges in 2013 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3067089/Georgia-sheriff-accused-shooting-woman-Atlanta-suburb.html

[avxo]

Suburban Georgia sheriff 'who shot woman inside a model home' is allowed to leave the scene after he refuses to cooperate with police questioning

-Clayton County, Georgia, Sheriff Victor Hill believed to have shot woman at model home near Atlanta suburb Lawrenceville on Sunday night
-Victim Gwenevere McCord, a real estate agent who knew him, was taken to hospital in critical condition and still unconscious Monday morning
-Hill legally allowed to leave scene because he is an active police officer and can't be arrested without warrant from Superior Court judge
-Sheriff re-elected after beating more than 20 corruption charges in 2013 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3067089/Georgia-sheriff-accused-shooting-woman-Atlanta-suburb.html

What a bunch of fucking bullshit is this?

[whork]

Suburban Georgia sheriff 'who shot woman inside a model home' is allowed to leave the scene after he refuses to cooperate with police questioning

-Clayton County, Georgia, Sheriff Victor Hill believed to have shot woman at model home near Atlanta suburb Lawrenceville on Sunday night
-Victim Gwenevere McCord, a real estate agent who knew him, was taken to hospital in critical condition and still unconscious Monday morning
-Hill legally allowed to leave scene because he is an active police officer and can't be arrested without warrant from Superior Court judge
-Sheriff re-elected after beating more than 20 corruption charges in 2013 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3067089/Georgia-sheriff-accused-shooting-woman-Atlanta-suburb.html

He was just doing his job nothing to see here.

[Agnostic007]

He was elected AFTER he was indicted for felony charges. This one isn't all on the police system. For whatever reason, the public hired him for the job even with the red flags. They shouldn't be too upset about the results   

[Skeletor]

He was elected AFTER he was indicted for felony charges. This one isn't all on the police system. For whatever reason, the public hired him for the job even with the red flags. They shouldn't be too upset about the results   

True, same with other places that vote for various shady types as sheriffs.
My problem is with this: Hill legally allowed to leave scene because he is an active police officer and can't be arrested without warrant from Superior Court judge

And this (from the article):

Possible charges against Hill would proceed differently since he's a sheriff, police said.

'When you're an active sheriff in the state of Georgia, there are certain legal requirements and steps that have to be taken,' Doan told reporters at the scene.

'It's not just an average citizen where you can take out a warrant for their arrest.'

Georgia police officers including sheriffs can only be arrested with a warrant from a Superior Court judge, said.

[Agnostic007]

True, same with other places that vote for various shady types as sheriffs.
My problem is with this: Hill legally allowed to leave scene because he is an active police officer and can't be arrested without warrant from Superior Court judge

And this (from the article):

Possible charges against Hill would proceed differently since he's a sheriff, police said.

'When you're an active sheriff in the state of Georgia, there are certain legal requirements and steps that have to be taken,' Doan told reporters at the scene.

'It's not just an average citizen where you can take out a warrant for their arrest.'

Georgia police officers including sheriffs can only be arrested with a warrant from a Superior Court judge, said.

The article is probably not written technically correct. For example it first states because he is an active officer, but I think the reality is that he is a Sheriff. They are a unique entity as they are elected. Historically Sheriffs were afforded extra protections due to political entities attempting to use the law for their political purposes. To afford some immunity to them so they could fairly enforce the laws without fear of reprisal some protections were put in place. In this case, it certainly shows the flaw in the system. At any shooting there is forensic evidence. For example, was a swab done of the his hands prior to being able to leave? If not, that would be a big mistake. As far as "cooperating" he would be afforded similar rights as to any citizen with regard to speaking about it. He can't legally be compelled to provide a statement at that moment. I suspect a warrant will be forthcoming   

[blacken700]

The article is probably not written technically correct. For example it first states because he is an active officer, but I think the reality is that he is a Sheriff. They are a unique entity as they are elected. Historically Sheriffs were afforded extra protections due to political entities attempting to use the law for their political purposes. To afford some immunity to them so they could fairly enforce the laws without fear of reprisal some protections were put in place. In this case, it certainly shows the flaw in the system. At any shooting there is forensic evidence. For example, was a swab done of the his hands prior to being able to leave? If not, that would be a big mistake. As far as "cooperating" he would be afforded similar rights as to any citizen with regard to speaking about it. He can't legally be compelled to provide a statement at that moment. I suspect a warrant will be forthcoming  

it was written incorrectly for a reason, to stir up the idiots

[Agnostic007]

it was written incorrectly for a reason, to stir up the idiots

Possible, or the author doesn't get the difference. In any case.. doesn't look good for the Sheriff at this point. If he is found guilty, maximum sentence would be appropriate.

[blacken700]

"When you're an active sheriff in the state of Georgia, there are certain legal requirements and steps that have to be taken," said Doan. "It's not just an average citizen where you can take out a warrant for their arrest."

[Agnostic007]

"When you're an active sheriff in the state of Georgia, there are certain legal requirements and steps that have to be taken," said Doan. "It's not just an average citizen where you can take out a warrant for their arrest."

yeah...