Is Wikileaks a threat to national security?

[Dos Equis]

Would you support having a Jack Bauer-type person take out the head of Wikileaks, or take some kind of action to stop the release of documents that threaten national security?

[Kazan]

The assholes over at wikileaks have most likely already signed the death warrant for a lot of Afghans who are helping the US by releasing their names in the last batch.

If "someone" wants to rid of this guy, it will look like an accident I can guarantee that

[Straw Man]

What happened?

Did they out a covert CIA agent?

[Dos Equis]

The assholes over at wikileaks have most likely already signed the death warrant for a lot of Afghans who are helping the US by releasing their names in the last batch.

If "someone" wants to rid of this guy, it will look like an accident I can guarantee that

It's an interesting moral question.  I've been watching 24 for the first time and, although the scenarios are unrealistic, some of the issues it raises are thought provoking.  Just how far do we go to protect national security?  Is killing one or a few to save thousands or even millions acceptable?  

[AE]

It's an interesting moral question.  I've been watching 24 for the first time and, although the scenarios are unrealistic, some of the issues the raises are thought provoking.  Just how far do we go to protect national security?  Is killing one or a few to save thousands or even millions acceptable? 

Given the huge popularity of 24, the answer is a clear yes.

[Dos Equis]

Given the huge popularity of 24, the answer is a clear yes.

Good show.   

Also raises questions about the use of torture. 

[Straw Man]

Good show.   

Also raises questions about the use of torture. 

what questions does it raise about torture

btw - Obama ordered the assasination of a US citizen and I'm sure it's nothing new.  We don't even pretend we don't do it anymore

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html

[Fury]

What happened?

Did they out a covert CIA agent?

No, but they released the full names of dozens of Afghan informants and others working undercover, basically signing their death warrant. Hope they're proud of that.

The leaks weren't really much but I think it's ridiculous to release state secrets like that in the middle of a war. Not to mention their heavy editing of everything they release to try to dictate the way the leaks are perceived and the fact that Assange only releases leaks when he needs more money to fund his jet-setting lifestyle and the site is a joke.

The little punk that leaked all this shit should be executed for treason, though.

what questions does it raise about torture

btw - Obama ordered the assasination of a US citizen and I'm sure it's nothing new.  We don't even pretend we don't do it anymore

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html

So what? Because he's an American citizen he should be exempt from repercussions? Do you know anything about Al-Awlaki? He's a bonafide terrorist, a jihadi, and a major problem. He had a chance to clean up his act. He chose to go down the path of terrorist. Now he has to pay the piper.

But don't worry, the ACLU is helping his father sue the CIA. 

[AE]

what questions does it raise about torture

btw - Obama ordered the assasination of a US citizen and I'm sure it's nothing new.  We don't even pretend we don't do it anymore

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html

One of my favorite programs, saw every episode. Sorry to see it end.

The question it raises about torture is should we do it, not are we doing it and again I'm sure the fans would say yes in specific circumstances.

[Straw Man]

One of my favorite programs, saw every episode. Sorry to see it end.

The question it raises about torture is should we do it, not are we doing it and again I'm sure the fans would say yes in specific circumstances.

I've never watched the show

does it answer the question as to whether torture actually works or not?

Do they ever torture someone who turns out to not know anything

Do they ever torture someone who doesn't know shit but confesses to anything and everything and sends everyone off on wild goose chases?

[Straw Man]

No, but they released the full names of dozens of Afghan informants and others working undercover, basically signing their death warrant. Hope they're proud of that.

The leaks weren't really much but I think it's ridiculous to release state secrets like that in the middle of a war. Not to mention their heavy editing of everything they release to try to dictate the way the leaks are perceived and the fact that Assange only releases leaks when he needs more money to fund his jet-setting lifestyle and the site is a joke.

The little punk that leaked all this shit should be executed for treason, though.

I agree - outing a covert operative -whether Afghan or more importantly American certainly sounds like treason to me

So what? Because he's an American citizen he should be exempt from repercussions? Do you know anything about Al-Awlaki? He's a bonafide terrorist, a jihadi, and a major problem. He had a chance to clean up his act. He chose to go down the path of terrorist. Now he has to pay the piper.

But don't worry, the ACLU is helping his father sue the CIA. 

What's your problem man?

Did I say I had any problem with killing that guy?

I'm all for it

[Fury]

I agree - outing a covert operative -whether Afghan or more importantly American certainly sounds like treason to me


What's your problem man?

Did I say I had any problem with killing that guy?

I'm all for it

I apologize. I took your post to read that you had a problem with Obama putting al-Awlaki on the targeted killing list. As far as I'm concerned, he should be on there. The US govt. gave him a chance to clean up his act because he is a citizen but he chose to get 10x worse. His loss.

[Straw Man]

I apologize. I took your post to read that you had a problem with Obama putting al-Awlaki on the targeted killing list. As far as I'm concerned, he should be on there. The US govt. gave him a chance to clean up his act because he is a citizen but he chose to get 10x worse. His loss.

I'm saying we've done it before, we do it now and we no longer pretend we don't do it

I don't see any problem with targeting someone who is actively waging war against our country, planning/financing/conducting terrorist attacks, etc...

[tonymctones]

I've never watched the show

does it answer the question as to whether torture actually works or not?

Do they ever torture someone who turns out to not know anything

Do they ever torture someone who doesn't know shit but confesses to anything and everything and sends everyone off on wild goose chases?

id go on a wild goose chase 99 times if it meant the 100 time we got the correct info we needed...

[Eyeball Chambers]

Would you support having a Jack Bauer-type person take out the head of Wikileaks, or take some kind of action to stop the release of documents that threaten national security?

No

[Dos Equis]

No

In 24, there is a very interesting tug-of-war between the people who want to use any means necessary to protect innocent lives, and those who believe you go "by the book" no matter what. 

[Eyeball Chambers]

In 24, there is a very interesting tug-of-war between the people who want to use any means necessary to protect innocent lives, and those who believe you go "by the book" no matter what. 

I guess I'm a "by the book" kind of nerd... 

The Constitution has served us well for hundreds of years, knee jerk reactions haven't...

[Dos Equis]

I guess I'm a "by the book" kind of nerd... 

The Constitution has served us well for hundreds of years, knee jerk reactions haven't...

I don't think knee jerk reactions are the issue.  What I'm talking about is where you draw the line . . . or cross the line. 

In one sense it's like a Hobson's Choice:  violate the Constitutional rights of one or a few to save thousands or millions, or protect the rights of someone who is causing the death of many (or placing their lives and our security in danger).
 

[Eyeball Chambers]

I don't think knee jerk reactions are the issue.  What I'm talking about is where you draw the line . . . or cross the line.  

In one sense it's like a Hobson's Choice:  violate the Constitutional rights of one or a few to save thousands or millions, or protect the rights of someone who is causing the death of many (or placing their lives and our security in danger).
  

I don't think we're advanced enough to make these kinds of decisions.  The Patriot Act is a good example, it wasn't passed as a measure to protect Americans, it's just an assault on our freedom.  I don't mind (maybe) things like this happening "unofficially".  I do think we need groups to keep a close eye on stuff like this though.  I think it's a very slippery and dangerous slope.

I don't understand why this wiki leaks guy can't be charged with a crime and prosecuted?  

[Eyeball Chambers]

I don't understand why this wiki leaks guy can't be charged with a crime and prosecuted?  

Never mind, I know now...

[Dos Equis]

I don't think we're advanced enough to make these kinds of decisions.  The Patriot Act is a good example, it wasn't passed as a measure to protect Americans, it's just an assault on our freedom.  I don't mind (maybe) things like this happening "unofficially".  I do think we need groups to keep a close eye on stuff like this though.  I think it's a very slippery and dangerous slope.

I don't understand why this wiki leaks guy can't be charged with a crime and prosecuted?  

It's very dangerous.  But we live in a dangerous world.  I think this is above my pay grade too.  

I don't know if he's committed a crime.  The "soldier" who gave him the intel should hang, but not sure what they can do with the Wikileaks owner.  Officially.  

[Eyeball Chambers]

I don't really know much about this, the soldier committed treason I think.

We'll disagree on this, I don't know if I can really blame these wiki leaks people.  I like to know people are out there who are making it harder on governments that commit unethical and immoral acts.

[Dos Equis]

I don't really know much about this, the soldier committed treason I think.

We'll disagree on this, I don't know if I can really blame these wiki leaks people.  I like to know people are out there who are making it harder on governments that commit unethical and immoral acts.

If you don't have a problem with these people publishing classified documents that threaten lives and national security, then yeah we disagree.  Pretty hard to justify IMO.  But the media has no conscience.  Anything for a story.   

I'm really talking about how to deal with things like this. 

[Eyeball Chambers]

If you don't have a problem with these people publishing classified documents that threaten lives and national security, then yeah we disagree.  Pretty hard to justify IMO.  But the media has no conscience.  Anything for a story.   

I'm really talking about how to deal with things like this. 

If they're publishing documents related to honest, ethical operations that are legal and in the interest of the United States than I'm completely against what they're doing. 

If they're publishing documents related to our illegal, immoral wars in the Middle East, and the crimes committed against citizens of this country in the name of the "war on terror" than I support them one hundred percent.

[240 is Back]

Hey, it's not like the patriot act was written BEFORE 911, right?