Author Topic: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality  (Read 5104 times)

Bindare_Dundat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12227
  • KILL CENTRAL BANKS, BUY BITCOIN.
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2010, 05:47:29 AM »


The way I see it and maybe this will make more sense and hit home a little harder, saying their are peace loving Muslims who only want to be part of American society is like saying there are members of the Klan who like black people.


All German were Nazi's. All Japanese Americans were evil. All Russians were Commie's in their heart. A true  Christian abstains from premaarital sex and never smokes or drinks. lol oh boy. No offense intended but try going out there and actually living life a little bit. You'd be surprised at whats out there.

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2010, 07:15:16 AM »
It is a violent, intolerant, vicious and at long last incompatible ideology with civilized society. But-- I don't care what anyone believes or doesn't believe. Until Muslims that are willing to act on what is being preached to them by their religious leaders ( and indeed by the Muslim scriptures themselves) are eradicated, terminated or shrunk to a largely ineffective/ maintainable nuisance by the intelligence community and law enforcement, I consider the religion to be a cancer on civilized society. The solution is to put pressure on the religion itself, to reveal it's violent nature and to expose its true characteristics for the world to see.

Then and only then, will the "moderates" I keep hearing and reading about emerge to turn the cancer into a benign faith that is compatible with the rest of the planet. Or, in the alternative, if Islam refuses to police itself and get with the times, it should be treated like what it is-- a violent cult.

That's where the problem is.

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2010, 07:38:21 AM »
"The reason why jihaad is prescribed," from Islam QA:

Why do Muslims wage jihad?

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah has enjoined jihad for His sake upon the Muslims, for the great benefits that result from that and because of the harm caused by abandoning jihad, some of which are mentioned in Question no. 34830.

Some of the reasons why jihad for the sake of Allaah is prescribed in Islam are as follows:

1 - The main goal of jihad is to make the people worship Allaah alone and to bring them forth from servitude to people to servitude to the Lord of people. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allaah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zaalimoon (the polytheists, and wrong-doers)"

[al-Baqarah 2:193]

"And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allaah), then certainly, Allaah is All-Seer of what they do"

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

Ibn Jareer said:

So fight them until there is no more shirk, and none is worshipped except Allaah alone with no partner or associate, and trials and calamities, which are disbelief and polytheism, are lifted from the slaves of Allaah on earth, and religion is all for Allaah alone, and so that obedience and worship will be devoted to Him alone and none else.

Ibn Katheer said: Allaah commands us to fight the kuffaar so that there will be no fitnah, i.e., shirk, and the religion will all be for Allaah alone, i.e., the religion of Allaah will prevail over all other religions.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ""I have been commanded (by Allaah) to fight the people until they testify that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and they establish regular prayer and pay zakaah, then if they do that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning will be with Allaah." Narrated by al-Bukhaari (24), Muslim (33).

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "I have been sent just before the Hour with the sword, so that Allaah will be worshipped alone with no partner or associate."

Narrated by Ahmad, 4869; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami', 2831.

This purpose of jihad was present in the minds of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) during their battles with the enemies of Allaah. Al-Bukhaari (2925) narrated that Jubayr ibn Hayyah said: 'Umar sent people to all the regions to fight the mushrikeen... so 'Umar recruited us and appointed al-Nu'maan ibn Muqarrin to lead us. When we were in the land of the enemy, the representative of Chosroes came out to us with forty thousand troops. An interpreter stood up and said: "Let one of you speak to me." Al-Mugheerah said: "Ask whatever you want." He asked, "Who are you?" He (al-Mugheerah) said: "We are some people from among the Arabs. We used to lead a harsh and miserable life, sucking on animal skins and date stones because of hunger, wearing clothes made of camel and goat hair, worshipping trees and rocks. While we were in this state, the Lord of the heavens and the earth, exalted be His name and glorified be His greatness, sent to us a Prophet from amongst ourselves, whose father and mother we know. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), commanded us to fight you until you worship Allaah alone or pay the jizyah. Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us the message from our Lord, that whoever among us is killed will go to Paradise to enjoy delights such as no one has ever seen, and whoever among us is left will become your master."

This is the truth that the Sahaabah and leaders of the Muslims proclaimed in their military campaigns.

Rab'i ibn 'Aamir said, when Rustam the commander of the Persian armies asked him, "Why have you come?": "Allaah has sent us to bring forth whomsoever He wills from the worship of man to the worship of Allaah.

When 'Uqbah ibn Naafi' reached Tangiers, he rode his horse into the water until the water was up to its chest, then he said: "O Allaah, bear witness that I have done my utmost, and were it not for this sea I would have travelled throughout the land fighting those who disbelieve in You, until none is worshipped except You."

2 - Repelling the aggression of those who attack the Muslims.

The scholars are unanimously agreed that repelling the aggression of those who attack the Muslims is fard 'ayn (an individual obligation) upon those who are able to do that.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And fight in the way of Allaah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allaah likes not the transgressors"

[al-Baqarah 2:190]

"Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths (pagans of Makkah) and intended to expel the Messenger while they did attack you first? Do you fear them? Allaah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers"

[al-Tawbah 9:13]

3 - Removing fitnah (tribulation)

Fitnah is of different types:

(i) That which is caused by the kuffaar who persecute the Muslims or apply pressure to them to make them give up their religion. Allaah has commanded the Muslims to fight in jihad in order to save those who are weak and oppressed. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allaah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help"

[al-Nisa' 4:75]

(ii) The fitnah of the kuffaar themselves and their preventing others from hearing and accepting the truth. That is because the kaafir systems corrupt the innate nature and reason of people, and make them get used to worshipping and submitting to things other than Allaah, getting addicted to alcohol, wallowing in the mire of sexual licence, and losing all characteristics of virtue. Whoever is like that can rarely tell truth from falsehood, good from evil, right from wrong. So jihad is prescribed in order to remove those obstacles that prevent people from hearing and accepting the truth and getting to know it.

4 - Protecting the Islamic state from the evil of the kuffaar.

Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ordered that the leaders of the kuffaar be killed, those who incited the enemies against the Muslims, such as the Jews Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf and Ibn Abi'l-Haqeeq.

Another aspect of jihad is to protect the borders against the kuffaar. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) encouraged that as he said: "Guarding the border for one day for the sake of Allaah is better than this world and everything in it." Al-Bukhaari, 2678.

5 - Frightening the kuffaar, humiliating them and putting them to shame.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"Fight against them so that Allaah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people,

And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allaah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allaah is All-Knowing, All-Wise"

[al-Tawbah 9:14-15]

"And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery) to threaten the enemy of Allaah and your enemy"
[al-Anfaal 8:60]

Hence it is prescribed to fight in a manner that will strike terror into the heart of the enemy.

Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah - may Allaah have mercy on him] was asked whether it is permissible for a soldier to wear silk or gold or silver when fighting or when the envoys of the enemy come to the Muslims.

He replied:

Praise be to Allaah. With regard to wearing silk in order to frighten the enemy, there are two scholarly views, the more correct of which is that it is allowed. The soldiers of Syria wrote to 'Umar ibn al-Khattaab saying: "When we met the enemy we saw that they had covered their weapons with silk and we found that this struck terror in our hearts." 'Umar wrote back to them saying: "You should cover your weapons as they do." And wearing silk is a kind of showing off, and Allaah likes showing off at the time of fighting, as it is narrated in al-Sunan that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "There is a kind of showing off that Allaah likes, and a kind of showing off that Allaah hates. The showing off that Allaah likes is when a man shows off at the time of war. The kind of showing off that Allaah hates is showing off for the purpose of pride and boasting." On the day of Uhud, Abu Dujaanah al-Ansaari showed off among the ranks, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "This is a kind of walking that Allaah hates except in this situation." Majmoo' al-Fataawa, 28/17

6 - Exposing the hypocrites

Allaah says (Interpretation of the meaning):

"But when a decisive Soorah (explaining and ordering things) is sent down, and fighting (Jihaad -- holy fighting in Allaah's Cause) is mentioned (i.e. ordained) therein, you will see those in whose hearts is a disease (of hypocrisy) looking at you with a look of one fainting to death"

[Muhammad 47:20]

At times of ease and plenty, the Muslims may be joined by those who seek to make worldly gains, and they do not want to make the word of Allaah prevail over the word of kufr. These people may conceal their real nature from many of the Muslims, and the most effective means of exposing them is jihad, because jihad means sacrificing oneself but these hypocrites are only indulging in hypocrisy in order to save themselves.

Exposing the hypocrites was one of the major purposes that Allaah wanted the believers to achieve on the day of Uhud.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"Allaah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He distinguishes the wicked from the good"

[Aal 'Imraan 3:179]

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

This means: Allaah will not leave you in the state in which you are, where the believers are indistinguishable from the hypocrites, until the believers are made distinct from the hypocrites, as they were distinguished by the test on the day of Uhud, and Allaah will not disclose to you the unseen matters by which the one group is distinguished from the other, for they are distinguished from one another in the knowledge of the unseen that He has, but He wants to distinguish them from one another in a clear and visible manner, so that His unseen knowledge will become known and visible.

7 - Purifying the believers of their sins and ridding them thereof

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And so are the days (good and not so good), that We give to men by turns, that Allaah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allaah likes not the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).

And that Allaah may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers.

Do you think that you will enter Paradise before Allaah tests those of you who fought (in His Cause) and (also) tests those who are As-Saabiroon (the patient)?"
[Aal 'Imraan 3:140-142]

8 - Acquiring booty

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "I have been sent ahead of the Hour with the sword so that Allaah will be worshipped alone, and my provision has been placed in the shade of my spear, and humiliation has been decreed for those who go against my command, and whoever imitates a people is one of them." Narrated by Ahmad, 4869; Saheeh al-Jaami', 2831.

Al-Haafiz said:

This hadeeth indicates that war booty is permissible for this ummah, and that the provision of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has been placed in war booty and not in other kinds of earnings. Hence some of the scholars said that it is the best kind of earnings.

Al-Qurtubi said:

Allaah sent provision to His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by means of his striving and He made it by means of the best kind of striving which is earning it by means of force and strength.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went out for the battle of Badr to meet the caravan of Abu Sufyaan.

Al-Qurtubi said: The fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went out to meet the caravan indicates that it is permissible to take booty because it is a halaal source of income. This refutes Maalik's view that this is makrooh, when he said that this was fighting for worldly gains.

Al-Shawkaani said: Ibn Abi Jamrah said: The scholars of hadeeth are of the view that if the primary motive is to make the word of Allaah supreme, it does not matter what else is also achieved.

9 - Taking martyrs.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), that We give to men by turns, that Allaah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allaah likes not the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).

And that Allaah may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers"

[Aal 'Imraan 3:140-141]

Martyrdom is one of the highest statuses before Allaah, and the martyrs are the closest of His slaves to Him. There is no status higher than that of siddeeq apart from martyrdom. Allaah loves to take martyrs from among His slaves, who shed their blood for His love and to earn His pleasure, preferring His pleasure and His love above themselves. There is no way to attain this status except by circumstances that may lead to it such as enemies coming against the Muslims.

This was said by Ibn al-Qayyim in Zaad al-Ma'aad.

This is the great wisdom and those who try to put the Muslims off jihad and make them fear it, and say that jihad is no more than death, and making women widows and children orphans, pale into insignificance.

10 - Ridding the world of corruption.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"For had it not been that Allaah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allaah is mentioned much would surely, have been pulled down. Verily, Allaah will help those who help His (Cause). Truly, Allaah is All-Strong, All-Mighty"

[al-Hajj 22:40]

"And if Allaah did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allaah is full of bounty to the 'Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)"

[al-Baqarah 2:251]

Muqaatil said:

Were it not that Allaah checked the mushriks by means of the Muslims, the mushriks would have overrun the earth and killed the Muslims and destroyed the mosques.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Jawaab al-Saheeh, 2/216:

So the kuffar are repelled by means of the Muslims and the worse of the two parties is repelled by the better, just as the Magians (Persians) were repelled by the Christian Byzantines, then the Christians were repelled by the believers of the ummah of Muhammad.

Al-Sa'di said: The world would be corrupted if the kuffaar and evildoers were to prevail.

These are some of the reasons why jihad is prescribed.
We ask Allaah to bring the Muslims back to their religion. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.

http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/34647/jihad

You can find them all over the Internet: windy, pseudo-intellectual diatribes purporting to establish that it's us who misunderstand and misrepresent Islamic teaching about jihad and "extremism". Say the uninformed like Bindare: you're committing "selection bias," emphasizing the views of Islam held by "extremists," and all the bad sections of the Qur'an, in prejudice to all the marvelous moderate Muslims and wonderful passages of the Islamic holy book.

And above indeed is an explanation of jihad from an "extremist," Muhammad Al-Munajjid, a Saudi Wahhabi sheikh. I'm posting it here because of its closely argued Qur'anic exposition, with an invitation to Muslim "moderates" and their apologist brethren: show where al-Munajjid is wrong on Islamic grounds. The world wants to see you refute the version of Islam of the "extremists." The "extremists," after all, aren't getting their ideas from me, but from the likes of al-Munajjid. So instead of spending all your time trying to prove me wrong, why not spend some time trying to prove them wrong -- if, that is, you really oppose what they're doing?

Come on Bindare, I'm waiting. Prove to me that it's the "extremists" that are "misinterpreting" the Koran. You argue your points without ever providing any evidence. Just opinionated bullshit that we're supposed to believe because you said it. And I see what game you're playing in this thread and it's failing miserably.


Kazan

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6803
  • Sic vis pacem, parabellum
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2010, 08:08:32 AM »

Do you believe that American foreign policy plays no role in radicalizing some groups of Muslims?

Some good points here.




First of all I think Ron Paul is nuttier than squirrel shit, but that's beside the point. Do I think plays a roll, no I think it is an excuse for the loonies to justify their actions
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2010, 08:11:00 AM »
First of all I think Ron Paul is nuttier than squirrel shit, but that's beside the point. Do I think plays a roll, no I think it is an excuse for the loonies to justify their actions

They love to ignore the fact that the Muslims have been waging jihad in some form for 1400 years now (since Moohammed had his "revelations"). It's convenient to ignore history, like their attempted conquests of Europe and India. 

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7365
  • TND
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2010, 09:26:21 AM »
Bindare, understand that the minority in this case is 80 million plus people. 80 million. Not 80,000, or 800,000- 80 million whackjobs. And these 80 million breed like roaches and pass down their insane mandate to their equally deranged children.

And the rest of the "peaceful" followers either say nothing against the 80 million nut jobs, excuse the 80 million nut jobs, or pretend like the 80 million nutjobs don't exist.

I tend to agree with Purge for the most part. But as I said, I wouldn't give two shits if Islam meant worshipping the cookie monster and eating rodents. Belief isn't what kills people and threatens my way of life. It's putting those beliefs into actions that scare me.

James

  • Guest
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2010, 09:34:29 AM »

Arnold jr

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7247
  • fleshandiron.com
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2010, 10:14:35 AM »

All German were Nazi's. All Japanese Americans were evil. All Russians were Commie's in their heart. A true  Christian abstains from premaarital sex and never smokes or drinks. lol oh boy. No offense intended but try going out there and actually living life a little bit. You'd be surprised at whats out there.

That makes no sense, no one chooses what race they are born of, hat country, etc. No, all Germans were not Nazi's just like all Arabs are not Muslims. Muslims are made up of people from several different countries and races, yes the majority are of Arab or Persian decent but that's really irrelevant.

Your "True Christian" remark...the never smoke or drink thing, that's simply retarded, the premarital sex deal, yes the bible says you shouldn't but does not condemn you to hell if you do.

As for getting out there and living life and seeing what's out there...good and bad, great and horrible, I've had my share of both...not really sure what you're getting at.

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7365
  • TND
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2010, 10:41:33 AM »
Bindare I'm surprised at you bro-- honestly I thought you were one of the more enlightened posters on this board.

When the Nazi's were taken down ( by force), the Nazi party became nonexistent. When Communism died in the USSR ( partially by force, but mostly because of economics) did the Russian people try to fight tooth and nail to reinstate it? Of course not. When Japan was crushed ( by force), did they attempt to rebuild the war effort after being nuked twice? Absolutely not. They graciously conceded defeat.

You are speaking in absolutes with no frame of reference in which to place the context of your argument. There is a HUGE difference between WWII, The Cold War, and the threat of Islamic terrorism. The least of which seems to evade your understanding. When fighting a conventional war against an enemy that fly's the flag of a country and is confined to a specific geographical area, victory can always be achieved at arms length and with minimal casualties. When you are fighting an unconventional war against an enemy that is an IDEOLOGY as much as it is a physical threat, with adherents in every country on the face of the earth that are willing to die and kill without the slightest bit of hesitation, victory is IMPOSSIBLE unless you are willing to proactively engage the enemy on a number of different fronts and without concern over "offending" those with hidden agendas, delicate sensibilities and corrupt motives.  I had this same argument last week with some nimrod on here that tried to compare Islamic terrorism to the KKK. This struggle for Islamic supremacy has been happening for hundreds and hundreds of years across every continent. Islam isn't some flash in the pan political philosophy or some silly socioeconomic model that will create the ultimate liberal utopia. It's followers don't want "equality" or any of the other ideals touted by the leftist academics that unwittingly support the radical Islamist cause. The goal is Islamic domination and worldwide Sharia law. Period.

James

  • Guest
Re: 'Islamophobia' and Islamo-reality
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2010, 02:45:05 PM »
Bindare I'm surprised at you bro-- honestly I thought you were one of the more enlightened posters on this board.

You are speaking in absolutes with no frame of reference in which to place the context of your argument. There is a HUGE difference between WWII, The Cold War, and the threat of Islamic terrorism. The least of which seems to evade your understanding. When fighting a conventional war against an enemy that fly's the flag of a country and is confined to a specific geographical area, victory can always be achieved at arms length and with minimal casualties. When you are fighting an unconventional war against an enemy that is an IDEOLOGY as much as it is a physical threat, with adherents in every country on the face of the earth that are willing to die and kill without the slightest bit of hesitation, victory is IMPOSSIBLE unless you are willing to proactively engage the enemy on a number of different fronts and without concern over "offending" those with hidden agendas, delicate sensibilities and corrupt motives.  I had this same argument last week with some nimrod on here that tried to compare Islamic terrorism to the KKK. This struggle for Islamic supremacy has been happening for hundreds and hundreds of years across every continent. Islam isn't some flash in the pan political philosophy or some silly socioeconomic model that will create the ultimate liberal utopia. It's followers don't want "equality" or any of the other ideals touted by the leftist academics that unwittingly support the radical Islamist cause. The goal is Islamic domination and worldwide Sharia law. Period.

Great Post.