Author Topic: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?  (Read 15054 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #100 on: October 24, 2010, 03:15:52 PM »
why do you think that all the fossils are the same species?

there are fossils that correspond to the individual species on this time line why specifically do you feel that are all modern humans(homo sapiens)?

Because they are the same species (human).  There are no fossils showing the purported transition from whatever the heck we were supposed to be before we were "human."  Why do you think there is an absence of an entire fossil record?   

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #101 on: October 24, 2010, 03:53:05 PM »
Because they are the same species (human).  There are no fossils showing the purported transition from whatever the heck we were supposed to be before we were "human."  Why do you think there is an absence of an entire fossil record?   
so you think that homo habalis, erectus, egaster, austrolapithicus and its sub species are all human?

then your basically arguing what im arguing...its human just an earlier version of modern day humans but through evolution we have become what we are now...

now there is no denying that there are other species that were dead ends like neanderthals etc...however

what exactly makes you feel this way beach? is it the way they look? b/c according to our definitions of what a homo sapien species is they are not homo sapiens

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2010, 04:12:33 PM »
so you think that homo habalis, erectus, egaster, austrolapithicus and its sub species are all human?

then your basically arguing what im arguing...its human just an earlier version of modern day humans but through evolution we have become what we are now...

now there is no denying that there are other species that were dead ends like neanderthals etc...however

what exactly makes you feel this way beach? is it the way they look? b/c according to our definitions of what a homo sapien species is they are not homo sapiens

You're talking about fragments of bones and teeth pieced together and given a name.  They're not fossilized remains of some ape-man.  Why do you think the fossil record isn't full of humans at various stages of their evolution?  


garebear

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2010, 04:36:44 PM »
I think I deleted mine.  You got a copy? 

And what does Noah's Ark have to do with the gaping holes in the theory of evolution?
Man, you are priceless.
G

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2010, 04:37:50 PM »
Man, you are priceless.

Thank you.   :) 

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2010, 07:52:44 PM »
You're talking about fragments of bones and teeth pieced together and given a name.  They're not fossilized remains of some ape-man.  Why do you think the fossil record isn't full of humans at various stages of their evolution?  


stop saying ape man b/c evolution doesnt say that we came from apes...

lol thats what a fossil is beach...they dont just give it a name bro they look at its features and decide based upon those features if it is an already known species or if its a different species.

there is thats why they have them seperated into different species...

what specifically do you think they got wrong with homo habilis, egaster, erectus that makes you think those are modern human remains?

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #106 on: October 25, 2010, 04:02:26 PM »
stop saying ape man b/c evolution doesnt say that we came from apes...

lol thats what a fossil is beach...they dont just give it a name bro they look at its features and decide based upon those features if it is an already known species or if its a different species.

there is thats why they have them seperated into different species...

what specifically do you think they got wrong with homo habilis, egaster, erectus that makes you think those are modern human remains?

Tony you can call it whatever you want.  Whatever you want to label the not-quite-human ancestor, the fact is the fossil record doesn't support the existence of these evolving creatures.  

I understand we can find portions of fossilized remains that can allow us to make assumptions, but that is all that we have with macroevolution.  There are plenty of intact fossilized remains of a number of creatures, but none of them are in the middle of their so-called transformation.  

But you haven't answered my question:   Why do you think the fossil record isn't full of humans at their various stages of macroevolution?  

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #107 on: October 25, 2010, 04:33:05 PM »
Why do you think the fossil record isn't full of humans at their various stages of macroevolution?  
::)  It is filled with various stages.  The problem is that you're dealing with a very long time and a small enough population making the finding of intact remains more rare than your chances of finding a 10 pound gold nugget.  Then creationists will just chalk finds up to genetic variation within our species and not evidence of evolution lol...

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #108 on: October 25, 2010, 08:03:33 PM »
Tony you can call it whatever you want.  Whatever you want to label the not-quite-human ancestor, the fact is the fossil record doesn't support the existence of these evolving creatures.  

I understand we can find portions of fossilized remains that can allow us to make assumptions, but that is all that we have with macroevolution.  There are plenty of intact fossilized remains of a number of creatures, but none of them are in the middle of their so-called transformation.  

But you haven't answered my question:   Why do you think the fossil record isn't full of humans at their various stages of macroevolution?  
thats the thing broham it very much is full of "transitional fossils" showing evolution from walking on all fours to bipedal creatures, from small brain sizes to greater and greater brain sizes, from low cognitive abilities to more and more cognitive abilities.

what makes you feel there are no examples of transitional fossils?

 

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #109 on: October 26, 2010, 02:48:53 PM »
thats the thing broham it very much is full of "transitional fossils" showing evolution from walking on all fours to bipedal creatures, from small brain sizes to greater and greater brain sizes, from low cognitive abilities to more and more cognitive abilities.

what makes you feel there are no examples of transitional fossils?

 

Man you describe an apeman, but don't want me to call it an apeman?   :)

We're kinda going around in circles.  The things you describe do not exist.  A few fossilized remains + lots of assumptions does not = a fossil record full of transitional fossils.  They do not exist.  We can probably quote dueling sources, but I've read enough to know they don't exist.  That has always been one of the primary problems with macroevolution.  There are lots of other problems too. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #110 on: October 26, 2010, 02:50:18 PM »
Man you describe an apeman, but don't want me to call it an apeman?   :)

We're kinda going around in circles.  The things you describe do not exist.  A few fossilized remains + lots of assumptions does not = a fossil record full of transitional fossils.  They do not exist.  We can probably quote dueling sources, but I've read enough to know they don't exist.  That has always been one of the primary problems with macroevolution.  There are lots of other problems too. 

I love it... Beach is now the foremost resource on Evolution.

Not the thousands of scientists in the world.  ::)

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #111 on: October 26, 2010, 02:52:07 PM »
I love it... Beach is now the foremost resource on Evolution.

Not the thousands of scientists in the world.  ::)

Word. Dr. Beach Bum, macroevolution specialist.  Along with his highly qualified and extremely smart resources. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #112 on: October 26, 2010, 03:05:54 PM »
Dr. Moron... paging Dr. Moron....

We're in the same family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

We have common ancestors with other modern apes, we did not come from modern apes.  There are skulls of these common ancestors.  What you want to see for proof is so many skulls that you can create a 10 hour long morphed movie proving we evolve.  There will never be enough fossils found to satisfy people like you.  So you just look at a skull that has both human and ape features and say it's just another species of ape.  Then have the gonads to say there are gaping holes lol...  It's a fact, we evolve.  There is and always has been debate on how we evolve but to deny that we evolve is just mediaval in its stupidity.

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #113 on: October 26, 2010, 03:44:59 PM »
Man you describe an apeman, but don't want me to call it an apeman?   :)

We're kinda going around in circles.  The things you describe do not exist.  A few fossilized remains + lots of assumptions does not = a fossil record full of transitional fossils.  They do not exist.  We can probably quote dueling sources, but I've read enough to know they don't exist.  That has always been one of the primary problems with macroevolution.  There are lots of other problems too. 
B/c apes didnt come along until fairly recently in evolutionary terms we and apes share a common ancestor but we didnt spawn from apes and apes didnt spawn from us. Thats why the idea of an ape man is wrong and ignorant...you can always tell someone who hasnt studied evolution when they say ive never seen an ape turn into a human...b/c evolution never said that...

Beach its obvious that you have only studied and read articles and books that follow your train of thought. Why do we have no human fossils from years when dinosaurs walked the earth?

heres the deal beach and I was trying to let you find your way to this conclusion but if you think that all the different "species" are essentially modern humans even though we define them differently then you are essentially agreeing with macro evolution(even though I dont like that term, youre essentially agreeing with evolution)

b/c there are by our definitions different species...if you think they are all modern homo sapiens then its obvious evolution is happening and by that they are crossing the defined lines of certain species...youre arguement is more with our defining species than it is with evolution...

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #114 on: October 26, 2010, 03:57:51 PM »
B/c apes didnt come along until fairly recently in evolutionary terms we and apes share a common ancestor but we didnt spawn from apes and apes didnt spawn from us. Thats why the idea of an ape man is wrong and ignorant...you can always tell someone who hasnt studied evolution when they say ive never seen an ape turn into a human...b/c evolution never said that...

Beach its obvious that you have only studied and read articles and books that follow your train of thought. Why do we have no human fossils from years when dinosaurs walked the earth?

heres the deal beach and I was trying to let you find your way to this conclusion but if you think that all the different "species" are essentially modern humans even though we define them differently then you are essentially agreeing with macro evolution(even though I dont like that term, youre essentially agreeing with evolution)

b/c there are by our definitions different species...if you think they are all modern homo sapiens then its obvious evolution is happening and by that they are crossing the defined lines of certain species...youre arguement is more with our defining species than it is with evolution...

That's really splitting hairs.  You describe an "apeman," but don't want to call it that.  It really doesn't matter what you try and label the pre-human (insert name) that walked on all fours, etc.  It's still a sub-human, half-human, etc. that doesn't exist in the fossil record.     

What's obvious to me is you haven't read anything that challenges what we were all taught in school.  You would be amazed at what you might start to question if you actually stepped outside the box.  For example, read "The China Study" and see how it challenges everything we were taught about diet and nutrition in this country.   

Regarding macroevolution, read "Darwin's Black Box" and "Billions of Missing Links" and see what you think.  It might surprise you.     

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #115 on: October 26, 2010, 04:05:46 PM »
That's really splitting hairs.  You describe an "apeman," but don't want to call it that.  It really doesn't matter what you try and label the pre-human (insert name) that walked on all fours, etc.  It's still a sub-human, half-human, etc. that doesn't exist in the fossil record.     

What's obvious to me is you haven't read anything that challenges what we were all taught in school.  You would be amazed at what you might start to question if you actually stepped outside the box.  For example, read "The China Study" and see how it challenges everything we were taught about diet and nutrition in this country.   

Regarding macroevolution, read "Darwin's Black Box" and "Billions of Missing Links" and see what you think.  It might surprise you.     
LOL beach describe to me what makes you think that there are no fossil records of other species...do you think there are no fossil records of dinosaurs? b/c its the same process....

I will look into those books maybe the darwins black box first...

my main thing here beach is that if you agree with the concept of evolution then you agree with "macro" evolution b/c "macro" is a made up term to helpo humans categorize things not some barrier to evolutionary forces...

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #116 on: October 26, 2010, 04:11:22 PM »
LOL beach describe to me what makes you think that there are no fossil records of other species...do you think there are no fossil records of dinosaurs? b/c its the same process....

I will look into those books maybe the darwins black box first...

my main thing here beach is that if you agree with the concept of evolution then you agree with "macro" evolution b/c "macro" is a made up term to helpo humans categorize things not some barrier to evolutionary forces...

I never said there were no fossil records of other species.  I said there are no transitional fossils showing the transformation from one species to another (humans, animals, etc.). 

I believe microevolution is pretty clear.  Macroevolution is not.  And no, they're not the same. 

I hope you read both books.  They may not change your views on anything, but they will at least give you scientific discussions of the problems with macroevolution. 

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #117 on: October 26, 2010, 04:28:20 PM »
I never said there were no fossil records of other species.  I said there are no transitional fossils showing the transformation from one species to another (humans, animals, etc.). 

I believe microevolution is pretty clear.  Macroevolution is not.  And no, they're not the same. 

I hope you read both books.  They may not change your views on anything, but they will at least give you scientific discussions of the problems with macroevolution. 
why do you think then there are no fossils of humans from those times then beach seeing as God created man first and all other creatures after?

the thing is beach there is no difference between micro and macro those are man made terms that we made to help us categorize...evolution is evolution...what makes you think that evolution will simply stop at man made ideas of what a species is?


Skip8282

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #118 on: October 26, 2010, 04:51:13 PM »
This thread is:


Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #119 on: October 26, 2010, 05:01:32 PM »
why do you think then there are no fossils of humans from those times then beach seeing as God created man first and all other creatures after?

the thing is beach there is no difference between micro and macro those are man made terms that we made to help us categorize...evolution is evolution...what makes you think that evolution will simply stop at man made ideas of what a species is?



No idea.

Tony every scientific concept we use is man-made. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #120 on: October 26, 2010, 05:01:58 PM »
This thread is:



lol.  Yes it is.   :)

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #121 on: October 26, 2010, 05:07:38 PM »
No idea.

Tony every scientific concept we use is man-made. 
not true evolution would still exist whether we were here or not...macro and micro is just our take on a natural process...

evolution is not man made...evolution is a natural process, defining different creatures into categorized sects is a man made...

we didnt create evolution we created species(or what defines each species)...you understand?


Hugo Chavez

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #122 on: October 26, 2010, 05:30:47 PM »
LOL...

Misuse

Main article: Objections to evolution
See also: Speciation
The term "macroevolution" frequently arises within the context of the evolution/creation debate, usually used by creationists alleging a significant difference between the evolutionary changes observed in field and laboratory studies and the larger scale macroevolutionary changes that scientists believe to have taken thousands or millions of years to occur. They may accept that evolutionary change is possible within species ("microevolution"), but deny that one species can evolve into another ("macroevolution").[1] Contrary to this belief among the anti-evolution movement proponents, evolution of life forms beyond the species level ("macroevolution", i.e. speciation in a specific case) has indeed been observed multiple times under both controlled laboratory conditions and in nature.[10] The claim that macroevolution does not occur, or is impossible, is thus demonstrably false and without support in the scientific community.

Such claims are rejected by the scientific community on the basis of ample evidence that macroevolution is an active process both presently and in the past.[5][11] The terms macroevolution and microevolution relate to the same processes operating at different scales, but creationist claims misuse the terms in a vaguely defined way which does not accurately reflect scientific usage, acknowledging well observed evolution as "microevolution" and denying that "macroevolution" takes place.[5][12] Evolutionary theory (including macroevolutionary change) remains the dominant scientific paradigm for explaining the origins of Earth's biodiversity. Its occurrence is not disputed within the scientific community.[13] While details of macroevolution are continuously studied by the scientific community, the overall theory behind macroevolution (i.e. common descent) has been overwhelmingly consistent with empirical data. Predictions of empirical data from the theory of common descent have been so consistent that biologists often refer to it as the "fact of evolution".[14][15]

Nicholas Matzke and Paul R. Gross have accused creationists of using "strategically elastic" definitions of micro- and macroevolution when discussing the topic.[1] The actual definition of macroevolution accepted by scientists is "any change at the species level or above" (phyla, group, etc.) and microevolution is "any change below the level of species." Matzke and Gross state that many creationist critics define macroevolution as something that cannot be attained, as these critics describe any observed evolutionary change as "just microevolution".[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #123 on: October 26, 2010, 05:33:21 PM »
let me try again b/c i dont think i explained it very well...

we didnt create evolution we just describe the process of evolution

we created what defines each species, we ourselves said that if it has this characteristic its this if it has this one its that...

if we broadened our definition of each species we would have less "macro" evolution...

if we tightened our definition of each species we would have more "macro" evolution...

but the thing is no matter which way we we would still have the same amount of evolution...

tonymctones

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Re: Christine O'donnell - Why aren’t monkeys still evolving into humans?
« Reply #124 on: October 26, 2010, 05:37:06 PM »
The terms macroevolution and microevolution relate to the same processes operating at different scales,
this is my point...if you agree with evolution then you do agree with "macro" evolution b/c macro is simply micro on a different scale...

again why would a natural process that happens without the assistance of man stop at definitions that man created?