Author Topic: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil  (Read 5191 times)

Necrosis

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Re: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 03:54:19 PM »


  You did use the expression "sun burns" so don't blame me for interpreting it that way. It makes sense evolutionarily? Most hunter gatherers outside the tropics are not exposed to sunlight anyway that would result in damage to the epidermis(is this what you are implying), and in most of the rest of the year they don't get enough sun exposure to develop tans anyway even if they stay out all day long. It wouldn't make sense that vitamin D could only be synthesized by enough sun exposure that would require burns. In fact, Nothern Europeans developed white skin so as to maximize vitamin D production since white skin absorbs maximum sun rays. And getting sun burns is something that we are discouraged both physiologically as well as psychologically. Most people avoid midday sun and get cover. If getting sun burs is required for vitamin D production, then why are we discouraged from staying out in the sun by our own bodies? We get nausea, headaches and painful skin burns if we stay out in the Sun for long. How does this make sense evolutionarilly?

  Have you checked Canada's latitude? Of course you probably do need vitamin D in Canada. I don't think people in the tropics or subtropical regions require vitamin D supplementation at all. I live in a subtropical region and I have never developed a vitamin D deficiency even though I don't get sunlight nor drink milk and I don't know anyone either lolll.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

You did use the expression "sun burns" so don't blame me for interpreting it that way. It makes sense evolutionarily? Most hunter gatherers outside the tropics are not exposed to sunlight anyway that would result in damage to the epidermis(is this what you are implying), and in most of the rest of the year they don't get enough sun exposure to develop tans anyway even if they stay out all day long. It wouldn't make sense that vitamin D could only be synthesized by enough sun exposure that would require burns
Your first sentence is pure conjecture, hunter gatherers were outside a 1000% more the we are now, the vast majority of all activities are done inside now.
. In fact, Nothern Europeans developed white skin so as to maximize vitamin D production since white skin absorbs maximum sun rays. And getting sun burns is something that we are discouraged both physiologically as well as psychologically. Most people avoid midday sun and get cover. If getting sun burs is required for vitamin D production, then why are we discouraged from staying out in the sun by our own bodies? We get nausea, headaches and painful skin burns if we stay out in the Sun for long. How does this make sense evolutionarilly?

i already corrected or clarified myself, sun damage.accumulation over time. It makes perfect sense, the body is a shitty machine, why do we lack the enzyme to synthesize vitamin c? doesnt seem efficient, evolution is not directed.

So previously we spent almost all our time outdoors, in fact the vast majority. This would dictate that the vitamin d conversion would be slow, otherwise it would get toxic fast. Thus, now we get a couple hours max and the process is still the same slow process. Add in the longevity we now live with and things like cancer become a factor, where as cancer is not a big of a concern if you die at 30. Anyway, there is data to back this up, a pretty new study in fact. Ill post it tom.


suckmymuscle

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Re: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 04:21:26 PM »
You did use the expression "sun burns" so don't blame me for interpreting it that way. It makes sense evolutionarily? Most hunter gatherers outside the tropics are not exposed to sunlight anyway that would result in damage to the epidermis(is this what you are implying), and in most of the rest of the year they don't get enough sun exposure to develop tans anyway even if they stay out all day long. It wouldn't make sense that vitamin D could only be synthesized by enough sun exposure that would require burns
Your first sentence is pure conjecture, hunter gatherers were outside a 1000% more the we are now, the vast majority of all activities are done inside now.
. In fact, Nothern Europeans developed white skin so as to maximize vitamin D production since white skin absorbs maximum sun rays. And getting sun burns is something that we are discouraged both physiologically as well as psychologically. Most people avoid midday sun and get cover. If getting sun burs is required for vitamin D production, then why are we discouraged from staying out in the sun by our own bodies? We get nausea, headaches and painful skin burns if we stay out in the Sun for long. How does this make sense evolutionarilly?

i already corrected or clarified myself, sun damage.accumulation over time. It makes perfect sense, the body is a shitty machine, why do we lack the enzyme to synthesize vitamin c? doesnt seem efficient, evolution is not directed.

So previously we spent almost all our time outdoors, in fact the vast majority. This would dictate that the vitamin d conversion would be slow, otherwise it would get toxic fast. Thus, now we get a couple hours max and the process is still the same slow process. Add in the longevity we now live with and things like cancer become a factor, where as cancer is not a big of a concern if you die at 30. Anyway, there is data to back this up, a pretty new study in fact. Ill post it tom.



  Necrosis, you claimed that sun damage accumulation over time is required for vitamin D synthesis. From a purely logical standpoint, this doesen't make sense since most people outside the tropical and sutropical areas of the World don't get any Sun damage at all even during the Summer, let alone during the rest of the year.

  Since vitamin D is essential for life and since there isn't enough Sun outside tropical and subtropical regions of the World to cause Sun burns, and since Humans have lived outside tropical and subtropical regions of the World since pre-historic times, then ergo, a simple logical deduction indicates that an amount of Sun exposure that results in burns is not needed for the body to synthesize vitamin D.

  As for vitamin C, it is fairly abundant throughout most food sources, hence there was never a need for us to developed physiological characteristics that would allow us to synthesize vitamin C. We evolved from fruitarian apes and vitamin C is very abundant in most fruits. As for Humans who migrated to areas where fruits are not abundant, they could still get enough vitamin C from the diet to survive. Remember that what is optimum and what is required are two different things. We may not get enough vitamin C from the diet to have all the benefits we could have from it - and I take several grams of it a day because of this -, but we do get enough to survive. Natural selection is about survival and not optimum health.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

flinstones1

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Re: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2010, 08:13:18 AM »
I can testify to the power of Vitamin D.  I have been on nights for the past 3 years 7pm - 7am.  Over a year ago I just couldn't take it anymore.  I was feeling like shit.  My sleep cycle was all fucked up.  Insomnia, irritable etc.  Just felt like shit.  I also noticed my lower calves would cramp ALL THE TIME.  Well I went to the doctor to get a physical and some bloodwork.  I told her I wanted my Vitamin D levels checked and the #girl doctor looked at me like I just asked her for blowjob.  My D levels came back not only low but CRITICALLY low.  I started megadosing Vitamin D about 7-10K IUs per day and getting a lot more sun.  Months later I started feeling A LOT BETTER!  Im still on nights but my sleep pattern and energy levels are better and I no longer have the cramping.  I never knew lack of certain vitamins can cause muscle cramping.  I  always knew electrolytes caused cramping etc.  My doctor is a fucking idiot.  when my D levels came back critically low she didn't even speak to them let alone offer me prescription strength Vitamin D pills.  I swear doctors don't give a shit about stuff that can't be cured at the behest of prescription drugs.  

God damn thats alot of vitamin D.  I was taking 2000 IU per day and didnt really notice shit so maybe thats why. Gonna give 7000IU a try. I;m sure half these generic vitamins are garbage anyways hence  the need for megadosing.
l

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2010, 12:12:19 PM »
God damn thats alot of vitamin D.  I was taking 2000 IU per day and didnt really notice shit so maybe thats why. Gonna give 7000IU a try. I;m sure half these generic vitamins are garbage anyways hence  the need for megadosing.

Well bro it takes time first off to notice changes.  It took a good 9 months to start to feel the difference.  It was subtle but very noticeable over time.  And yes there is a lot of crappy vitamins and minerals out there just like roids. 

lightweight

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Re: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2010, 12:55:10 PM »
I can testify to the power of Vitamin D.  I have been on nights for the past 3 years 7pm - 7am.  Over a year ago I just couldn't take it anymore.  I was feeling like shit.  My sleep cycle was all fucked up.  Insomnia, irritable etc.  Just felt like shit.  I also noticed my lower calves would cramp ALL THE TIME.  Well I went to the doctor to get a physical and some bloodwork.  I told her I wanted my Vitamin D levels checked and the #girl doctor looked at me like I just asked her for blowjob.  My D levels came back not only low but CRITICALLY low.  I started megadosing Vitamin D about 7-10K IUs per day and getting a lot more sun.  Months later I started feeling A LOT BETTER!  Im still on nights but my sleep pattern and energy levels are better and I no longer have the cramping.  I never knew lack of certain vitamins can cause muscle cramping.  I  always knew electrolytes caused cramping etc.  My doctor is a fucking idiot.  when my D levels came back critically low she didn't even speak to them let alone offer me prescription strength Vitamin D pills.  I swear doctors don't give a shit about stuff that can't be cured at the behest of prescription drugs.  

How much was considered "CRITICALLY low"?  My doctor told me that my vit d is low but how low is critical?

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2010, 02:28:13 PM »
How much was considered "CRITICALLY low"?  My doctor told me that my vit d is low but how low is critical?

Well mine was 25 I believe.  I think up near 100 is considered normal.  100 or 120 I can't remember.  It actually said critically low on my lab results. 

warrior_code

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Re: Why Vitamin D Isn't Snake Oil
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2010, 10:09:47 PM »
interesting recent study on vitamin D and testosterone in men. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21154195