Tom Brady = Best QB EVER.....Yes even better than Manning...

[MB]

If Brady had won his last Super Bowl to go 4-0, he'd be in the conversation with Montana.  That loss to the Giants took a lot of luster away.  Brady needs to win two more to be the best ever, and I don't think he will. 

[body88]

Hey how about we compare Brady's first full season with the Pats to Cassel's......Its only fair right??....Anyway...Brady 7 losses, Cassel 5 losses....Cassel is not as good as a quarter back as Brady, but still managed a 11-5 season go figure....lol

Aka, I lose the argument because I don't really know what I'm talking about because I don't even know what this so called system I keep talking about consists of.

When you feel like proving me wrong you can answer the following:


Clearly Brady is better than Cassel. Your statement of Brady being a "system quarterback" is bunk, and while I present evidence of this fact over and over, you continue to make the same statement with evidence to support your claim.

Lets make this simple, I will state facts and you refute them point by point:

-Tom Brady threw 50 td's vs 8 int's in 2007 with a 115% qb rating , leading his team to a 16-0 regular season. Matt Cassel threw 16 td's vs 16 int's with the exact same team and coaches. The ONLY difference was the qb. If there was a "system" Cassel should have at least been able to duplicate Bradys rookie season where he threw 18td's vs 12 int's with 85% rating.

-Tom Brady has won 2 superbowl MVP's based upon big plays he made under pressure. He also owns three titles, an NFL MVP and claim to the great season of any qb ever. His carrer numbers are first ballot hof level. What is it about the system that makes all the possible?

- Tom Brady has had THREE offensive coordinators since he started playing. Charlie Wiess, Josh McDaniel's and now Matt Patricia. None of these "systems" are the same. You assumption of one system is wrong.

- Explain the patriots system to me. What attributes does it have to make Brady as great as he is? I know what the Patriots "system" consists of, and it has nothing to do with a special offensive way of doing things. A curl route is a curl route dude, the terminology is all that separates "systems".

- Do you think Manning and Montana are system qb's? Manning has played in the same offensive system with the same coordinator for his entire career. Bill Walsh's west coast offense is regarded as the most successful system ever.

Thank you for admitting what I am trying to make the point of...I have never said Brady was a "bad QB" but he is a product of the coaching....

No - no that's not what I did at all. God, I'm trying to be patient here. No one is saying that you are saying that Brady is a bad qb (wtf are you getting that from)?

Answer the questions above, or admit that you don't know what you are talking about when you say Brady's "system" lets him succeed. Belichick does not need to explain how things work...Brady leads the offensive film meetings, lol. Belichicks "system" has nothing to do with offensive schemes that are special or different. I know what the system consists off, so I'll let you explain why it makes Brady successful, ha-ha.

[tu_holmes]

Several quarterbacks are going to finish with better career stats than Montana. But Joe was clutch when it mattered most.
If I had to choose one qb to win a big game, I'm going with Joe.

•Holds six Super Bowl passing records:
   1.Highest career passer rating: 127.8
   2.Most career passes completed: 83
   3.Most consecutive completions: 13
   4.Most career passing yards: 1,142
   5.Most passing yards in one Super Bowl: 357
   6.Most career touchdown passes: 11
•Holds four Playoff passing records:
   1.Most career passes attempted: 734
   2.Most career passes completed: 460
   3.Most career passing yards: 5,772
   4.Most career touchdown passes: 45

If you pitted a prime Montana against a prime Brady(without clutch kicker) Joe would take it hands down...

This.

[body88]

This.

Yes, currently, Montana is better..and to me, the best QB ever.

If you compare their careers year by year, Brady has better numbers. If Brady wins another title, I think you have to strongly consider him to overtake Montana.

The kicker comment is asinine. Pretty sure Montana had guys like Jerry Rice, and the architect of the west coast offense helping him out. All the greats have good coaches and pieces.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

2007 Brady is the real Brady. One notch ahead of Payton Manning. Anyone who watches tapes of Brady and what he did in 2007 knows of what he is capable at any given time. Truthfully in some regards he's held back by the system he is asked to run. Some of the offensive play calling is fucking retarded and Payton Manning doesn't have to deal with the same BS. But Brady is a Bob Chick company man till the end. And because so, he will probably end up with 2 or 3 more titles than the gun slinger that is known as Payton and it will be because of Bill B.

Bill knows Best

[tu_holmes]

Yes, currently, Montana is better..and to me, the best QB ever.

If you compare their careers year by year, Brady has better numbers. If Brady wins another title, I think you have to strongly consider him to overtake Montana.

The kicker comment is asinine. Pretty sure Montana had guys like Jerry Rice, and the architect of the west coast offense helping him out. All the greats have good coaches and pieces.

Montana never had that superb team that Brady has... Amazing players in almost EVERY skill position every year?

Belicheck wins games with 9 starting Defensive players... The guy is an evil  genius. The year that the pats won 11 games without Brady shows that the team wins games, not Brady.

I know you're on New England's nuts man... I get it... I'm not hating on them at all, but you have to admit that overall, the TEAM is much better than the TEAM that Montana had around him during his big wins.

[no one]

Aka, I lose the argument because I don't really know what I'm talking about because I don't even know what this so called system I keep talking about consists of.

Lets make this simple, I will state facts and you refute them point by point:-Tom Brady threw 50 td's vs 8 int's in 2007 with a 115% qb rating , leading his team to a 16-0 regular season. Matt Cassel threw 16 td's vs 16 int's with the exact same team and coaches. The ONLY difference was the qb. If there was a "system" Cassel should have at least been able to duplicate Bradys rookie season where he threw 18td's vs 12 int's with 85% rating.

yeah right. i guess you forgot that literally 1/3 of the team that brady had the year before was missing when cassel was there.

thanks for coming out, homer.

next.

[body88]

Montana never had that superb team that Brady has... Amazing players in almost EVERY skill position every year?

Belicheck wins games with 9 starting Defensive players... The guy is an evil  genius. The year that the pats won 11 games without Brady shows that the team wins games, not Brady.

I know you're on New England's nuts man... I get it... I'm not hating on them at all, but you have to admit that overall, the TEAM is much better than the TEAM that Montana had around him during his big wins.

LOL!!! Aside from 2007. please list the AMAZING skill position players at every position. That is one of the worst comments I have seen thus far.

The year prior to 2008, Brady took the same team to 16-0 and threw 50 td's to 8 int's. There was a MASSIVE difference in success between 2007 and 2008, proving Brady has a huge effect on the team.

This year is a great example of why you're homer comment/argument is ignorant. The 2010 Pats are 9-2 with one of the youngest/worst statistical defenses in the NFL and Brady throwing to three rookies and no name wr's. There is an undrafted free agent running that ball. The reason they are winning is because Brady is putting up insane numbers and scoring tons of points.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Montana never had that superb team that Brady has... Amazing players in almost EVERY skill position every year?

Belicheck wins games with 9 starting Defensive players... The guy is an evil  genius. The year that the pats won 11 games without Brady shows that the team wins games, not Brady.

I know you're on New England's nuts man... I get it... I'm not hating on them at all, but you have to admit that overall, the TEAM is much better than the TEAM that Montana had around him during his big wins.

Montana probably would have had two more SB's with a prime Bill B couching. However in the end so will Brady

[body88]

yeah right. i guess you forgot that literally 1/3 of the team that brady had the year before was missing when cassel was there.

thanks for coming out, homer.

next.

Please list all the missing players as opposed to the year before. Since we are comparing offensive performance, it will mean little, as the full compliment of offensive players were there.

Brady threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% passer rating. Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's. Brady won 18 games and scored what would have been the game winner in the sb had the defense done their job. How much more of a difference would you like, pal?

This year is another great example of why Brady is great. MVP type numbers throwing to 2 rookie tight ends, a rookie wr, an old Deion Branch, Welker and an undrafted free agent as a running back. Two if his best linemen are on ir... Kevin Faulk is on ir and his defense is one of the youngest in the NFL.

You can't run with me, dude. You all call me a homer, but you can't refute my arguments with actual points or stats; it's general insults and propaganda because you don't know any better.

[tu_holmes]

LOL!!! Aside from 2007. please list the AMAZING skill position players at every position. That is one of the worst comments I have seen thus far.

The year prior to 2008, Brady took the same team to 16-0 and threw 50 td's to 8 int's. There was a MASSIVE difference in success between 2007 and 2008, proving Brady has a huge effect on the team.

This year is a great example of why you're homer comment/argument is ignorant. The 2010 Pats are 9-2 with one of the youngest/worst statistical defenses in the NFL and Brady throwing to three rookies and no name wr's. There is an undrafted free agent running that ball. The reason they are winning is because Brady is putting up insane numbers and scoring tons of points.

It shows that Belicheck is an evil genius... Just like I said. When you can take 9 rookie defense starters and win games, there's definitely a system that's winnineg games.

You're insane if you think otherwise.

You look at guys who fly under the radar and you say they aren't amazing, when I say they are.... Welker has always been one of the top 10 receivers in the league and he's shown he still is.

Hernandez averages over 12 yards a catch... Those are great numbers.

McCourty is possibly the rookie of the year on the other side of the ball and Tate is definitely nothing to sneeze at on special teams.

Like I said, Belicheck is the reason for the winning... he finds guys that fit and he uses them.

Again, if it's so much Brady, why did Cassle win 11 games with them, he'll be lucky if he wins 8 in KC.

[body88]

Montana probably would have had two more SB's with a prime Bill B couching. However in the end so will Brady

So now Bill Walsh was a shitty coach? LMAO!

[The Abdominal Snoman]

So now Bill Walsh was a shitty coach? LMAO!

You think he's better than Bill B? LMAO. Not even fucking close. Bill is winning with alot more Parody in the league. Walsh's west coast offense at the time was basically unstoppable because people didn't know how to stop it. The game is much more complexed now. Like I said, Bill B would have easily gave Montana two more wins.

[tu_holmes]

So now Bill Walsh was a shitty coach? LMAO!

Not taking anything away from him, but NE is the only real Dynasty over the past 10 years, so Belicheck is definitely some kind of Evil Genius.

Every year, people have to worry about the Pats.... Even Pittsburgh doesn't have cred like that.

[body88]

It shows that Belicheck is an evil genius... Just like I said. When you can take 9 rookie defense starters and win games, there's definitely a system that's winnineg games.

You're insane if you think otherwise.

You look at guys who fly under the radar and you say they aren't amazing, when I say they are.... Welker has always been one of the top 10 receivers in the league and he's shown he still is.

Hernandez averages over 12 yards a catch... Those are great numbers.

McCourty is possibly the rookie of the year on the other side of the ball and Tate is definitely nothing to sneeze at on special teams.

Like I said, Belicheck is the reason for the winning... he finds guys that fit and he uses them.

Again, if it's so much Brady, why did Cassle win 11 games with them, he'll be lucky if he wins 8 in KC.

Dude, the defense is not winning games right now! They are among the worst in the NFL statistically. Their only saving grace is the turnovers that are generating. The Patriots offense is winning games because they are averaging 30 points per game. I just explained this to you and it is a fact. You're right the patriots d has some exciting young guys who will be very good when they learn, but right now they are giving up a TON of yards and points.

Welker was never amazing until he started playing with Brady, that is another fact. Please list all the amazing players at every skill position that Brady had prior to 2007. Shit, list them aside from Welker and Moss in 2007! You're simply making things up...Brady has always been applauded for doing a lot with guys off the scrap heap. he went to the 2006 afccg with Reche Caldwell as a number one. Wtf is Reche Caldwell. You cant name amazing players at every skill position prior to 2007, because they simply didn't exist, period.

Yes, Belichick is a huge reason for the pats success, but Brady is just as important as well.

Again, in 2007 Brady won 18 games, threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% rating. The next year Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's and won 11 games with pretty much the same team.  That is a huge difference.

Cassel is having a good season in KC.

[body88]

You think he is better than Bill B? LMAO. Not even fucking close.

No, dude, I think Bill is better, but acting as if Montana's guy was only average is fucking ludicrous. Bill Walsh was one of the greatest offensive coaches ever, lol.

I've had season tickets to the pats for over 15 years. Bill is one of the bet to ever do it...Bradt as well...that's why they win.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Dude, the defense is not winning games right now! They are among the worst in the NFL statistically. Their only saving grace is the turnovers that are generating. The Patriots offense is winning games because they are averaging 30 points per game. I just explained this to you and it is a fact. You're right the patriots d has some exciting young guys who will be very good when they learn, but right now they are giving up a TON of yards and points.

Welker was never amazing until he started playing with Brady, that is another fact. Please list all the amazing players at every skill position that Brady had prior to 2007. Shit, list them aside from Welker and Moss in 2007! You're simply making things up...Brady has always been applauded for doing a lot with guys off the scrap heap. he went to the 2006 afccg with Reche Caldwell as a number one. Wtf is Reche Caldwell. You cant name amazing players at every skill position prior to 2007, because they simply didn't exist, period.

Yes, Belichick is a huge reason for the pats success, but Brady is just as important as well.

Again, in 2007 Brady won 18 games, threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% rating. The next year Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's and won 11 games with pretty much the same team.  That is a huge difference.

Cassel is having a good season in KC.

actually Welker was never good/great until he started playing with Moss and now Branch. He would do nothing if he was/is the Key receiver. Lets KIR

[body88]

Not taking anything away from him, but NE is the only real Dynasty over the past 10 years, so Belicheck is definitely some kind of Evil Genius.

Every year, people have to worry about the Pats.... Even Pittsburgh doesn't have cred like that.

Of course he is...he's amazing. All I'm saying is that Brady is very important to the pats success as well.

When Bledsoe was the qb, the Pats didn't excel like they did when Brady came in.

[body88]

actually Welker was never good/great until he started playing with Moss and now Branch

He was pretty good in Miami, just not great. Branch is not even close to the threat that Moss was, though.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

No, dude, I think Bill is better, but acting as if Montana's guy was only average is fucking ludicrous. Bill Walsh was one of the greatest offensive coaches ever, lol.

I've had season tickets to the pats for over 15 years. Bill is one of the bet to ever do it...Bradt as well...that's why they win.

Answer me this, why is it that you think I said Bill Walsh was no good because I said Bill B would have given the team 2 more wins? Thats fucking retarded. EVeryone knows how good Bill Walsh was. But he isn't in the league of Bill B.

[tu_holmes]

Dude, the defense is not winning games right now! They are among the worst in the NFL statistically. Their only saving grace is the turnovers that are generating. The Patriots offense is winning games because they are averaging 30 points per game. I just explained this to you and it is a fact. You're right the patriots d has some exciting young guys who will be very good when they learn, but right now they are giving up a TON of yards and points.

Welker was never amazing until he started playing with Brady, that is another fact. Please list all the amazing players at every skill position that Brady had prior to 2007. Shit, list them aside from Welker and Moss in 2007! You're simply making things up...Brady has always been applauded for doing a lot with guys off the scrap heap. he went to the 2006 afccg with Reche Caldwell as a number one. Wtf is Reche Caldwell. You cant name amazing players at every skill position prior to 2007, because they simply didn't exist, period.

Yes, Belichick is a huge reason for the pats success, but Brady is just as important as well.

Again, in 2007 Brady won 18 games, threw 50 td's to 8 int's with a 115% rating. The next year Cassel threw 16 td's to 16 int's and won 11 games with pretty much the same team.  That is a huge difference.

Cassel is having a good season in KC.

Do you hear yourself? Turnovers? That's DEFENSE man...


Dude... in 2007 he had Stallworth and Gaffney... both starters on most teams.

Mauroney and Faulk are both above average players on most teams and it's only because of the way that NE is always runningback by proxy that their numbers weren't higher.


I think you're just smoking crack man... Seriously, there is no way you can say that the NE teams of the past 8 years overall are not better than most of the 49ers on average from 80-88.

He was pretty good in Miami, just not great. Branch is not even close to the threat that Moss was, though.

The system in NE is better for Welker, that's all there is to it.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

He was pretty good in Miami, just not great. Branch is not even close to the threat that Moss was, though.

If he was the number one receiver for the Pats, he wouldn't do shit either. Everyone in the world luvs Wes, but lets KIR(keep it Real)

[tu_holmes]

If he was the number one receiver for the Pats, he wouldn't do shit either. Everyone in the world luvs Wes, but lets KIR(keep it Real)

I think he's one of the best run after catch guys in the game... plus his hands are some of the best in the league.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

I think he's one of the best run after catch guys in the game... plus his hands are some of the best in the league.

I don't disagree. But imop its because most defensives can't key up on him. The Pats are in a very good position with there receiving core. Edelman although hurt most of the year has basically been held back. This guy is not that far off from Welker. And its only because who they have around them

[body88]

Do you hear yourself? Turnovers? That's DEFENSE man...


Dude... in 2007 he had Stallworth and Gaffney... both starters on most teams.

Mauroney and Faulk are both above average players on most teams and it's only because of the way that NE is always runningback by proxy that their numbers weren't higher.


I think you're just smoking crack man... Seriously, there is no way you can say that the NE teams of the past 8 years overall are not better than most of the 49ers on average from 80-88.

The system in NE is better for Welker, that's all there is to it.

It's not defense, man. It's having some up and coming playmakers, but as a whole, having a pretty poor defense overall. The Patriots defense is among the worst in the NFL right now. Again, the Pats are winning because they are scoring 30 ppg, period.

So now Donte Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney are AMAZING skill position players, lol. Jabar Gaffney is average at best! Stallworth was cut from the pats because he never did anything. Look at his numbers. Maroney is average at best (lost his job to a ufda and has done jack shit in Denver - just like he did in NE) and Faulk is a third down back. He's good, but he's not AMAZING.  Again, your statement of Brady always having AMAZING skill position players is false, plain and simple. In fact the only AMAZING players Brady has ever had are Welker and Moss. Prior to 2007 he was winning titles with the likes of Deoin Branch who has never even had a 1000 yard season. He's good, but far from AMAZING.

Just curious....explain the NE system to me.