Obama's Leadership

[Dos Equis]

you still are dancing around my direct question to you

What direct question? 

[andreisdaman]

What direct question? 

Holy shit...now you see why we can't have an honest discussion..I've asked you about three times already

[Dos Equis]

Holy shit...now you see why we can't have an honest discussion..I've asked you about three times already

Perhaps I did answer you and you are too much of a dope to realize it?  What specific question are you talking about?

[andreisdaman]

You are definitely proving why I call you the great pontificator.......carry on

[Dos Equis]

You are definitely proving why I call you the great pontificator.......carry on

No worries zombie. 

[andreisdaman]

No worries zombie. 

pontificate on

[andreisdaman]

So are you saying that if we can get you promoted to mod, you will start being truthful and unbiased?

It appears they don't make Liberals into mods around here

[Dos Equis]

Rep. Pete King Denounces Obama's 'Shameful' Defense of Kaepernick
By Mark Swanson   |   Monday, 05 Sep 2016

Rep. Pete King on Monday took President Barack Obama to task for his "shameful" defense of Colin Kapernick, accusing the president of "propagating the big lie against our nation's police."

"President Obama's defense of Colin Kaepernick is shameful and intentionally misleading," King said in a statement. "No one questions Kaepernick's right to protest. Every American can protest any issue no matter how biased, bigoted or uninformed."

King, R-N.Y., was responding to Obama's assertion Monday that Kaepernick, a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, "cares about some real, legitimate issues." Kaepernick has refused to stand for the national anthem out of protest for the deaths of several black men in police-involved shootings.

"By saying that Kaepernick is raising a legitimate issue when he says that police are intentionally killing and targeting African-Americans, President Obama is giving moral cover and approval to hideous slander and propagating the big lie against our nation's police emanating from the likes of Black Lives Matter," King wrote. "The facts are that police shootings against whites are the same as against African-Americans, and in almost all cases justified. No one does more to save and protect all lives -- black and white -- than the police. It is the police who are being targeted and assassinated."

Kaepernick has said his protest is a means to bring attention to what he calls racial injustice, something Obama approves of, saying that these are "issues that need to be talked about."

"President Obama says Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the National Anthem and his slander against police is "messy." No, Mr. President, it is disgraceful," King wrote. "There is no moral equivalence between criminals like Michael Brown and innocent cops who are being assassinated. It is time for America to honestly address racial tensions and injustices. Kaepernick adds nothing intelligent to the debate. He just inflames those tensions. Sadly the President has chosen to side with Kaepernick."

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/pete-king-obama-kaepernick/2016/09/05/id/746710/#ixzz4JPF6zInp

[andreisdaman]

Rep. Pete King Denounces Obama's 'Shameful' Defense of Kaepernick
By Mark Swanson   |   Monday, 05 Sep 2016

Rep. Pete King on Monday took President Barack Obama to task for his "shameful" defense of Colin Kapernick, accusing the president of "propagating the big lie against our nation's police."

"President Obama's defense of Colin Kaepernick is shameful and intentionally misleading," King said in a statement. "No one questions Kaepernick's right to protest. Every American can protest any issue no matter how biased, bigoted or uninformed."

King, R-N.Y., was responding to Obama's assertion Monday that Kaepernick, a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, "cares about some real, legitimate issues." Kaepernick has refused to stand for the national anthem out of protest for the deaths of several black men in police-involved shootings.

"By saying that Kaepernick is raising a legitimate issue when he says that police are intentionally killing and targeting African-Americans, President Obama is giving moral cover and approval to hideous slander and propagating the big lie against our nation's police emanating from the likes of Black Lives Matter," King wrote. "The facts are that police shootings against whites are the same as against African-Americans, and in almost all cases justified. No one does more to save and protect all lives -- black and white -- than the police. It is the police who are being targeted and assassinated."

Kaepernick has said his protest is a means to bring attention to what he calls racial injustice, something Obama approves of, saying that these are "issues that need to be talked about."

"President Obama says Kaepernick's refusal to stand for the National Anthem and his slander against police is "messy." No, Mr. President, it is disgraceful," King wrote. "There is no moral equivalence between criminals like Michael Brown and innocent cops who are being assassinated. It is time for America to honestly address racial tensions and injustices. Kaepernick adds nothing intelligent to the debate. He just inflames those tensions. Sadly the President has chosen to side with Kaepernick."

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/pete-king-obama-kaepernick/2016/09/05/id/746710/#ixzz4JPF6zInp

Whats all this nonsense about?...Kaepernick has a right to sit down during the national anthem.....so what?...its his right.....

[Dos Equis]

Whats all this nonsense about?...Kaepernick has a right to sit down during the national anthem.....so what?...its his right.....

No he doesn't.  No it isn't. 

[TuHolmes]

No he doesn't.  No it isn't. 

It's not his right?

Now I'm confused.

Could you explain this?

[andreisdaman]

It's not his right?

Now I'm confused.

Could you explain this?

He can't.....he usually reacts illogically to anything I say......he can't help it

[Dos Equis]

It's not his right?

Now I'm confused.

Could you explain this?

The First Amendment doesn't protect speech/expression, unless it is being infringed by the government.  You don't have the right to say whatever you want in the workplace.  You have the right to say or express whatever your employer permits. 

So, you could he has "the right" to protest, but the Niners and the NFL also have the right to punish and/or fire him (which they have elected not to do). 

[Dos Equis]

He can't.....he usually reacts illogically to anything I say......he can't help it

You should sit this one out simpleton. 

[andreisdaman]

The First Amendment doesn't protect speech/expression, unless it is being infringed by the government.  You don't have the right to say whatever you want in the workplace.  You have the right to say or express whatever your employer permits. 

So, you could he has "the right" to protest, but the Niners and the NFL also have the right to punish and/or fire him (which they have elected not to do). 

you basically just admitted he has a right to protest..which is what i said......consequences be damned....does he have the right?...YES

[Dos Equis]

you basically just admitted he has a right to protest..which is what i said......consequences be damned....does he have the right?...YES

I told you to sit this one out.  When people are talking about his "right" to protest, they are talking about the First Amendment, often not understanding that it only protects you from the government.  Pretty sure you don't understand that. 

[andreisdaman]

I told you to sit this one out.  When people are talking about his "right" to protest, they are talking about the First Amendment, often not understanding that it only protects you from the government.  Pretty sure you don't understand that. 

No, thats not what people are talking about at all....the question has nothing to do with government....people have grown up thinking that nothing should be done to "disrespect" the flag and that you should always stand and pledge yourslef to the flag.....and that not doing so makes one evil and untrustworthy.....even traitorous.......due to this, people who don't stand and put their hand over their heart are stigmatized.....the "right" that people are talking about is that he and others who refuse to stand and to place their hands over their hearts have a right to do so and SHOULD NOT be stigmatized for protesting which is an American right...

Can we please have an honest discussion just ONCE???

[Dos Equis]

No, thats not what people are talking about at all....the question has nothing to do with government....people have grown up thinking that nothing should be done to "disrespect" the flag and that you should always stand and pledge yourslef to the flag.....and that not doing so makes one evil and untrustworthy.....even traitorous.......due to this, people who don't stand and put their hand over their heart are stigmatized.....the "right" that people are talking about is that he and others who refuse to stand and to place their hands over their hearts have a right to do so and SHOULD NOT be stigmatized for protesting which is an American right...

Can we please have an honest discussion just ONCE???

It's difficult to have an honest discussion when you just make stuff up.  President Obama said:  “He’s following his constitutional right to make a statement . . . I think there’s a long history of sports figures doing so.”

Now go ahead and tell me President Obama wasn't talking about the First Amendment. 

[andreisdaman]

It's difficult to have an honest discussion when you just make stuff up.  President Obama said:  “He’s following his constitutional right to make a statement . . . I think there’s a long history of sports figures doing so.”

Now go ahead and tell me President Obama wasn't talking about the First Amendment. 

Look, I understand perfectly well that my repeated destructions and ownings of you have put you in a state of mind of constantly having to prove yourself against me.....which is why you behave the way you do when we debate.......even when we are on the same side you switch the debate to something else so as to oppose me....the original question was, DOES HE HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTEST BY SITTING DOWN DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM????you said NO....Tu and i said yes he does.....then you change your argument to "constitutional right" and say YES..which is it?..or are you going to do what you usually do and say "I already told you" when you haven't really said anything

STRANGE...........

[Dos Equis]

Look, I understand perfectly well that my repeated destructions and ownings of you have put you in a state of mind of constantly having to prove yourself against me.....which is why you behave the way you do when we debate.......even when we are on the same side you switch the debate to something else so as to oppose me....the original question was, DOES HE HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTEST BY SITTING DOWN DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM????you said NO....Tu and i said yes he does.....then you change your argument to "constitutional right" and say YES..which is it?..or are you going to do what you usually do and say "I already told you" when you haven't really said anything

STRANGE...........

*yawn* 

I gave you the quote from the president.  Was he talking about the First Amendment or not? 

[andreisdaman]

*yawn* 

I gave you the quote from the president.  Was he talking about the First Amendment or not? 

so in other words, you're wrong AGAIN as usual??

[Dos Equis]

so in other words, you're wrong AGAIN as usual??

You have should have listened to me when I told you to sit this one out.  You are an Obamabot zombie.  You lack critical thinking skills.  How are you going to survive when Obama leaves office?   

I posted an article about Obama's claim that Kaepernick had a "constitutional right" to protest. 

You claimed Kaepernick does have a "right" to protest, clearly not understanding that he has no First Amendment protection.

You then said this:

No, thats not what people are talking about at all....the question has nothing to do with government....

In other words, you said people (like the president) are not saying Kapernick has a First Amendment right to protest. 

I responded with the exact quote from Obama:

President Obama said:  “He’s following his constitutional right to make a statement . . . I think there’s a long history of sports figures doing so.”
 

Anyone with just a little capacity to reason, who isn't a hack, understands exactly what Obama was trying to say (i.e., mistakenly saying Kaepernick has a First Amendment right to protest).  And if you are claiming that the entire discussion about his "right" to protest hasn't been grounded on people's belief that Kaepernick has a First Amendment right to protest, you are a lying fool. 

[TuHolmes]

The First Amendment doesn't protect speech/expression, unless it is being infringed by the government.  You don't have the right to say whatever you want in the workplace.  You have the right to say or express whatever your employer permits. 

So, you could he has "the right" to protest, but the Niners and the NFL also have the right to punish and/or fire him (which they have elected not to do). 

No argument with either of these statements.

He has the right to do what he chooses to do, but of course anyone deciding to hold him accountable are also within their "rights".

[Dos Equis]

No argument with either of these statements.

He has the right to do what he chooses to do, but of course anyone deciding to hold him accountable are also within their "rights".

IMO, conduct isn't really a "right" if you get penalized for engaging in it.  We have the "right" to be Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, etc. and the government cannot infringe on that right (with exceptions).  That's different than saying we have the "right" to proselytize in the workplace if the employer says don't do it.  If the boss says no, and an employee does it anyway and gets fired, I don't see that as a "right" being exercised by the employee.  Same with this free speech/expression issue.  If the Niners decided to fine or cut Kaepernick for disrespecting the national anthem, Kaepernick would be exercising his right to get fined/fired.  Seems pretty hollow to me.   

It's pretty remarkable, but not surprising, that President Obama who taught constitutional law doesn't understand how the First Amendment works.  Or maybe he's just pandering. 

[Soul Crusher]

IMO, conduct isn't really a "right" if you get penalized for engaging in it.  We have the "right" to be Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, etc. and the government cannot infringe on that right (with exceptions).  That's different than saying we have the "right" to proselytize in the workplace if the employer says don't do it.  If the boss says no, and an employee does it anyway and gets fired, I don't see that as a "right" being exercised by the employee.  Same with this free speech/expression issue.  If the Niners decided to fine or cut Kaepernick for disrespecting the national anthem, Kaepernick would be exercising his right to get fined/fired.  Seems pretty hollow to me.   

It's pretty remarkable, but not surprising, that President Obama who taught constitutional law doesn't understand how the First Amendment works.  Or maybe he's just pandering. 

O- sharpton needs to keep is plantation slaves happy by tossing them a bone like this