Author Topic: Negative-only training  (Read 18232 times)

Boost

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2011, 11:48:12 AM »
Bodybuiding is a lifestyle. dj181 wants to look great 365 days per year.

Adding lots of "weight" as a natural would be the worst thing you could do.

try to cut down your portions, lean out and see your energy go through the roof.

Most guys on this board would look and feel 10x better about after dropping 30lbs

Jaime

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #76 on: January 01, 2011, 11:53:51 AM »
Bodybuiding is a lifestyle. dj181 wants to look great 365 days per year.

Adding lots of "weight" as a natural would be the worst thing you could do.

try to cut down your portions, lean out and see your energy go through the roof.

Most guys on this board would look and feel 10x better about after dropping 30lbs


I hate all of the bulking/cutting phase ideology that perpetuates with training.

Get yourself in shape, low bodyfat and then make quality lean gains where needed, sculpt yourself.
Trans Milkshake.

DroppingPlates

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2011, 11:54:42 AM »
as a natural guy he won't be "adding serious mass"

he's trying to tone and shape his physique and lose body fat to actually look like a bodybuilder.

Quality over quantity
Regarding "adding serious mass", I simply can't judge about his potential. Maybe he has -almost- anything done to reach his peak, or maybe he can gain 10-20lb of lean mass. I can't judge on that.

dj181

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #78 on: January 01, 2011, 11:55:35 AM »
Ok, so here are the exercises that I can do with max weights included. DB Lunges 80 pounds per hand. DB Military same wt. DB Con Curl same wt. Weighted Chins with 150 pounds added. Weighted Push-ups ;D ;D ;D 150 pounds added. So that's not sufficent to reach my goals of 165 6% 17 inch arms ::) How many of you studs can chin with a buck 50?

Jaime

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2011, 11:58:01 AM »
Ok, so here are the exercises that I can do with max weights included. DB Lunges 80 pounds per hand. DB Military same wt. DB Con Curl same wt. Weighted Chins with 150 pounds added. Weighted Push-ups ;D ;D ;D 150 pounds added. So that's not sufficent to reach my goals of 165 6% 17 inch arms ::) How many of you studs can chin with a buck 50?



Sounds good to me. You don't have a decent straight bar? A decent olympic bar and half a dozen 45's and you could cover everything.
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DroppingPlates

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2011, 11:58:27 AM »
Regarding training at home, how long are you doing this? how often? all year long?

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #81 on: January 01, 2011, 11:59:18 AM »
You can train anywhere with anything as long as you have overload and progression. John Grimek worked out with broomsticks and cinderblocks best I understand.

Boost

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #82 on: January 01, 2011, 12:02:11 PM »

I hate all of the bulking/cutting phase ideology that perpetuates with training.

Get yourself in shape, low bodyfat and then make quality lean gains where needed, sculpt yourself.

It's the funniest and most idiotic, common sense thing in all of bodybuilding.

What happens when you overeat? You gain fat.

Why do guys think that lifting weights 4 times a week will change their biochemistry, allowing them to overeat without ending up overweight.


dj181

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #83 on: January 01, 2011, 12:05:36 PM »
Thanks for the boost, Boost :) Yeah man, I played the "mass game" for many years, and it didn't do shit for me. I want one of these tough guys (mass243 or flintstones1) to accept my 6 week challange, so I can show how it's done 8) Yeah man, I know that the fire should come within, but negative energy is a very good stimulant pour moi ;D I suppose that I could challange DK II, but I'm afraid that it would only end up being a fat calf challange lol

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #84 on: January 01, 2011, 12:08:18 PM »
I didn't read anything beyond the first couple post, but this should work in theory.  The negative is the part of the lift that causes the majority of the microtears that make you get bigger/stronger (and sore).  If you only did the positive part and had someone lift the weight off you every rep or whatever, you'd never get sore! (but never get big).

dj181

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #85 on: January 01, 2011, 12:13:43 PM »
Good point Jamie, I may buy a barbell in the near future, but the thing is I am trying to bodysculpt myself and add muscle where I need it most ie my arms. My chest is my best upper body part, and I'm quite satisfied with its level of development.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #86 on: January 01, 2011, 12:18:20 PM »
And dropping plates, I've been training at home for about 6 months now. And for the past 7 years I trained very sporadically, but never suriously or consistantly. Now, I train 3 to 5 days a week.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #87 on: January 01, 2011, 12:36:13 PM »
you are fooling yourself to think it is safe.

Any load that you cannot move positively is too much for you. If you could only curl 5lbs, then a negative with 7lbs would overwork your tendons, joints and muscles.

Learn to lift smart, lift slower, use pre-exhausting techniques or whatever, but negatives will only hurt you in the long run.

x2.

except for the pre exhaust bit.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #88 on: January 01, 2011, 12:41:20 PM »
And dropping plates, I've been training at home for about 6 months now. And for the past 7 years I trained very sporadically, but never suriously or consistantly. Now, I train 3 to 5 days a week.
Credits to you if you have the discipline to train consistently hard at home, but please, forget training with negatives only. The list of people with injuries who trained that way is long. Do some research on the web and you know what I mean.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #89 on: January 01, 2011, 12:51:37 PM »
But is it really so dangerous if I take a full 10 seconds for each lowering and do at least 8 reps per set? Remember, I'm a huge fan of Arthur Jones, and I throughly know his writings. I would say that my training style is a hybrid of Mentzer-Jones.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #90 on: January 01, 2011, 01:03:00 PM »
But is it really so dangerous if I take a full 10 seconds for each lowering and do at least 8 reps per set? Remember, I'm a huge fan of Arthur Jones, and I throughly know his writings. I would say that my training style is a hybrid of Mentzer-Jones.
You can handle much more weight, about 130% of 1 rep max (this depends on how many reps you want perform and your experience). Jones is a smart man but his HIT training has risks (like every kind of serious protocol BTW). Risk 1: risk of injuries/tears (like Dorians biceps at the end of his career) and risk 2: it could be, sooner or later, to much stress for your nervous system. Search for HIT on this forum for a some experiences. For example. I had to deal with a tennis elbow after some heavy chins, and yes I did them very strict and slow.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #91 on: January 01, 2011, 01:25:58 PM »
I'm not so sure that I buy this "one can use 130 to 140% of max weight for negatives. For example, I was able to do 6 dip with 100 pounds around my waist, but then I did an experiment where I tried negative-only dips with 125 pounds added, and I could onlw get 3 or 4 negatives with that weight, even though I could do it for 1 regualar/normal rep. But another good question would be... How many natural trainers have had injuries from HIT style training? 

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #92 on: January 01, 2011, 01:36:38 PM »
I'm not so sure that I buy this "one can use 130 to 140% of max weight for negatives. For example, I was able to do 6 dip with 100 pounds around my waist, but then I did an experiment where I tried negative-only dips with 125 pounds added, and I could onlw get 3 or 4 negatives with that weight, even though I could do it for 1 regualar/normal rep.
I think this was because your muscles were not used to slow down during the eccentric part. Look at the average gym rat, most of them train with a fast rep speed, esp the eccentric part. This is mostly a matter of practice.

Quote
But another good question would be... How many natural trainers have had injuries from HIT style training?  
What has natural or not to do with it? You have naturals & juicers with a shitty training style. I think it's rather a matter of experience & proper technique. BTW, I'm a lifetime natural with 20 years under the belt.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2011, 01:48:14 PM »
Most people in my gym, your gym and every gym on the planet do not have the muscle/mind connection. So because of this, every workout protocol is ALMOST useless for these types of people.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2011, 01:51:35 PM »
Well man, it's pretty common knowledge that da sauce creates an imbalance where the increase of the muscles strength is much greater than the tendons increase in strength, well at least that's what I've heard, and as I'm also a lifetime natural trainer I'm not saying this based upon my own experience, it's only based upon what I've heard. And that's a good point that you made about doing the negative portion too fast, but in my younger days (I'm 36, by the way) I used to compete in bench press contests, and a cornerstone of my training style was to perform the negative portion under great control. At a bp contest, you MUST pause the weight on your chest while waiting for the press signal from the head judge.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #95 on: January 01, 2011, 02:21:58 PM »
Well man, it's pretty common knowledge that da sauce creates an imbalance where the increase of the muscles strength is much greater than the tendons increase in strength, well at least that's what I've heard, and as I'm also a lifetime natural trainer I'm not saying this based upon my own experience, it's only based upon what I've heard.
Yes, maybe that aspect could decrease the risk of injury, esp when a natural with only 1-2 years under the belt decides to go for a heavy cycle. Maybe GH15 or someone else can confirm this.

Quote
And that's a good point that you made about doing the negative portion too fast, but in my younger days (I'm 36, by the way) I used to compete in bench press contests, and a cornerstone of my training style was to perform the negative portion under great control. At a bp contest, you MUST pause the weight on your chest while waiting for the press signal from the head judge.
Yep I know as a spotter in a few gym contests. A important difference between a BP and a dip (I presume you did a free version) is that a dip requires more stabilisation and -when going really down- starts from a almost complete stretched triceps position.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2011, 04:08:18 PM »
Whats really funny to me, is how posts and thought patterns get so twisted when you cant talk face to face lol.
From his origanal post he wants to gain over an inch on his arms and lose body fat.
Now hes changing his story lol. Settle for 16s, man thats only 1/4 inch more then you have now. These are your words not mine bro.
I do think you could possibly gain 1/4 of an inch and lose bodyfat, mabye, but itll be damn hard.

And you still dont know what pure negative training is training is lol ;)
If you can do one positive rep, your not working tru negatives.
If i missunderstand what type of traing your talking about i apolagize

dj181

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2011, 04:36:56 PM »
Allright man, but like I said, I don't buy this belief that one can lower 30 to 40 more percent weight than they can lift, I could NEVER do that, and I tried it many different times with different exercises, but maybe I'm just a pussy lol

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #98 on: January 01, 2011, 05:00:11 PM »
Allright man, but like I said, I don't buy this belief that one can lower 30 to 40 more percent weight than they can lift, I could NEVER do that, and I tried it many different times with different exercises, but maybe I'm just a pussy lol

You're not a pussy.  Static strength is greater than negative and positive strength.  You can hold a heavier weight than you can press up in a "positive" move.  For the greater part and in the case of the majority of people out there, you can resist a heavier weight in a controlled fashion, i.e., a controlled negative bench press from a static hold off the rack to chest level, than you can press up (a "positive" movement)  from the same position.  It just is.  I have done this in my training as well as witnessed others doing so.

The secret is, there's no secret.  I said before that you should go and purchase or borrow the book "Dinosaur Training".  It's excellent.  Again, you are not a pussy, you're just looking for answers that you already know and by that I mean the secret (answer) is there are no secrets.  You already know them.

Hard work, done in a brief fashion with relatively heavy weights.  Train hard and infrequently.  You will find out what works best for you. 

Compound exercises that work  major muscle groups should  be a major part of your training.  Negatives are supplemental and should be done accordingly.  For example, if you are unable to do a pull up, then do negative chins at bodyweight or if you are able to, with extra weight.  After a time, you will be able to do a pull up with your bodyweight and then two, three and more.  It will work. 

Good food and rest.  If you overeat, you will get fat.  It matters not if you overeat good food or junk food, too many calories will ultimately become fat.  My best gains have come training hard every two through four days, but I gained too much bodyfat due to a relatively high calorie diet and had to trim down because I was unsatisfied with how I looked.  My strength had increased as did my overall muscle size, but at my age looks are more important to me than strength.

No one ever said this was easy, but to be honest it is very simple.  No secrets.  Hard, infrequent workouts that tax major muscle groups, good food with the right amount of protein, carbs and fats as well as calories and rest.  Supplements?  I take an inexpensive multivitamin/mineral table and a calcium table once a day.  That's it.

It's simple for  a reason.

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Re: Negative-only training
« Reply #99 on: January 01, 2011, 05:24:35 PM »
Good post Reeves, but I'm sure you know that Arthur Jones claimed negative strength was 40% greater than positive strength, but once again that was complete and utter bullshit in my case, the best that I could do was maybe, maybe 15 to 20% higher than my postive strength. And yeah, HARD AND CONSISTANT WORK IS THE ANSWER. Something that is up for debate here is the question: Is "spot muscle gaining" possible? I believe that it is.