Author Topic: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform  (Read 1591 times)

Danny

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http://www.examiner.com/independent-in-national/independent-analysis-debunks-false-gop-claims-about-health-reform

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a group with a reputation for producing materials that are balanced, authoritative, and accessible to non-specialists, has released a study of the claims central to the debate on repealing health reform that will reopen in the House this week. The short answer is that the CBO analysis is deemed accurate while Republican claims to the contrary are deemed inaccurate.

At issue is the pending bill to repeal "job killing" health care reform, a bill who's very name contains an accusation.  Rep. Steve King (R-IA), a leading proponent of repeal, says "This is the most important thing we can do, jobs and the economy have to follow through, but we can't fix this economy unless we first repeal Obama care."  But is that true?

Much of the rhetoric surrounding this debate has been quite partisan.  Yet a surprising element in this round has been the claim by Speaker Boehner that the CBO analysis of the health care reform act's financials was merely their "opinion," and he implied that Democrats had forced CBO to produce misleading figures, saying that “CBO can only provide a score based on the assumptions that were given to them.”  On that count, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities says:

    * In fact, over several decades, the House and Senate Budget Committees, along with presidential administrations of both parties, have developed procedures that CBO uses to prepare cost estimates.  In estimating the cost of health reform or its repeal, as with any estimate, CBO uses these longstanding, bipartisan procedures — not assumptions specified by the sponsor of the legislation.  Thus, Speaker Boehner’s charge is flatly incorrect.
    * Up until now, congressional leaders of both parties have acknowledged CBO’s professionalism and recognized its critical role as a neutral arbiter in budget matters.  They have accepted CBO’s cost estimates, even when those estimates have proved inconvenient for their side.  This wholesale attack on, and rejection of, a CBO estimate for a major piece of legislation by the leadership of the House or Senate is unprecedented.

As Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, "Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.”  A recent USA TODAY/Gallup Poll determined that 83% of the public say it's extremely or very important for House Republicans to pass legislation that both parties can agree on.  Further, 70% of Democrats say the president should work to pass legislation Democrats and Republicans can agree on, even if it's not what most Democrats want.

The public wants the government to cooperate together.  But this cannot happen if there is not at least agreement on the basic data related to an issue.  Debate the implications. Debate the ideology. But stop wasting everyone's time debating the facts.

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dario73

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 09:19:38 AM »
Another statement from the CBO:
"The legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount — roughly half a percent— primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply," budget office number crunchers said in a report last year.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2011-01-18-health-care-job-losses_N.htm


So either way, jobs will be lost by implementing Obamacare. Was that what Obama promised? Wasn't it supposed to save employers money, increase wages due to the money saved and even create jobs?

Who is wrong here again?

Boehner may have given a much higher number regarding jobs lost due health care, but the CBO confirmed(even if their figure is much lower) that it would have a negative result on jobs. So why implement such legislation? I thought Dems wanted to encourage job creation.

loco

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 10:58:01 AM »
Obama orders review of government regulations

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama on Tuesday ordered a government-wide review of regulations with the goal of eliminating those that hurt job creation and make the economy less competitive.

Obama took action after unveiling his plan in an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal in which he said some rules have placed "unreasonable burdens on business -- burdens that have stifled innovation and have had a chilling effect on growth and jobs."

The executive order marked Obama's latest move to repair relations with U.S. business, which were frayed amid bitter debate over his overhauls of Wall Street regulations and healthcare that some business leaders said would stymie corporate America.

Obama has struck a more business-friendly tone since his Democrats lost the U.S. House of Representatives and saw their Senate majority reduced in November congressional elections widely seen as a verdict on his handling of the stumbling economy and persistently high unemployment.

It was not immediately clear, however, how far-reaching Obama's new regulatory strategy would be in changing the way the federal government operates.

Despite Obama's promise, the administration's legislative victories are producing dozens of new regulations, on everything from credit card fees to health insurance premium increases, to the annoyance of the business community.

Obama said he would require that in the future, government agencies "ensure that regulations protect our safety, health and environment while promoting economic growth."

He also issued a memorandum to all executive agencies calling for "more transparency and accountability in regulatory compliance" and a second one on the need to "reduce burdens on small businesses whenever possible," the White House said.

Business leaders say government regulations, including those being written for the healthcare and financial reform, have hurt job creation at a time of nearly double-digit unemployment.

"It's a review that will help bring order to regulations that have become a patchwork of overlapping rules, the result of tinkering by administrations and legislators of both parties and the influence of special interests in Washington over decades," Obama wrote.

The president, noting that small businesses create most new jobs in the economy, also said he would direct the government to make a greater effort to reduce the burden regulations place on them.

While vowing to eliminate rules that are "not worth the cost, or that are just plain dumb," the president said his administration would not shy away from writing new rules to address "obvious gaps" in government oversight.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110118/pl_nm/us_obama_regulations/print

Straw Man

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 11:37:11 AM »
Another statement from the CBO:
"The legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount — roughly half a percent— primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply," budget office number crunchers said in a report last year.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2011-01-18-health-care-job-losses_N.htm


So either way, jobs will be lost by implementing Obamacare. Was that what Obama promised? Wasn't it supposed to save employers money, increase wages due to the money saved and even create jobs?

Who is wrong here again?

Boehner may have given a much higher number regarding jobs lost due health care, but the CBO confirmed(even if their figure is much lower) that it would have a negative result on jobs. So why implement such legislation? I thought Dems wanted to encourage job creation.

projection = .005% job loss and it's due to workers being able to choose to work less/stop working because they are no longer forced to keep working in order to have affordable health insurance

To title the bill "Job Killing" is just absolutely f'n ridiculous

Total partisan hackery on the part of the Republicans

Soul Crusher

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 11:50:03 AM »
Yeah ok Straw -

Obamacare will lower premiums - FAIL

ObamaCare will reduce deficit - FAIL   

ObamaCare will result in 400,000 immiediate jobs - FAIL



etc etc.       

Straw Man

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 12:34:15 PM »
Yeah ok Straw -

Obamacare will lower premiums - FAIL

ObamaCare will reduce deficit - FAIL   

ObamaCare will result in 400,000 immiediate jobs - FAIL

etc etc.       


Quote
since President Obama signed health reform into law on March 23, 2010, the economy has created approximately a total of 1.1 million new jobs in the private sector. One-fifth of the new jobs — over 200,000 — have been in the health care industry. Nevertheless, Republicans have spent the week decrying health reform as “job killing” legislationthis about this for a moment.


If 30 million more people have access to health care won't that require more health care workers.


http://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/07/hcr-repeal-costs-jobs/

Skip8282

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 02:19:44 PM »
The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a group with a reputation for producing materials that are balanced, authoritative, and accessible to non-specialists




hahahaha...not even close.  That's a fucking liberal think tank, hands down.






If 30 million more people have access to health care won't that require more health care workers.




Like many things in the bill - it depends.  Historically though, a lot of healthcare providers have been treating more patients by spending less time on each patient.  Though with a tremendous influx of patients it's probably not unreasonable to think it will result in increased hiring.

George Whorewell

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 04:33:32 PM »
After much deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that liberals are complete fucking morons. Reasoning with them is like teaching a squirrel how to drive a car. Facts, figures, public opinion, common sense, logic= all irrelevant when it comes time to force feed laws to the public for their own "good".

Idiots believe what they want to believe, the truth be damned.

Today's mindless liberal lie came from the health czar who stated that 127 million + Americans have preexisting conditions and would be dropped from their health insurance provider without Osamacare.

As a certain right wing extremist radio talk show host said recently, isn't human life a preexisting condition?

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2011, 05:16:36 PM »
The biggest chunk of health care workers to be added due to the influx of Obamacare are going to be most HIS and HIM techs and general coders. 

Skip8282

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2011, 05:37:49 PM »
Are those good paying jobs?

Skip8282

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2011, 05:39:19 PM »
After much deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that liberals are complete fucking morons. Reasoning with them is like teaching a squirrel how to drive a car. Facts, figures, public opinion, common sense, logic= all irrelevant when it comes time to force feed laws to the public for their own "good".

Idiots believe what they want to believe, the truth be damned.

Today's mindless liberal lie came from the health czar who stated that 127 million + Americans have preexisting conditions and would be dropped from their health insurance provider without Osamacare.

As a certain right wing extremist radio talk show host said recently, isn't human life a preexisting condition?



Yep, and HHS hasn't released its methodology.  I was reading that some insurers are calling the study bunk now. 

whork25

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 03:05:31 AM »
After much deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that liberals are complete fucking morons. Reasoning with them is like teaching a squirrel how to drive a car. Facts, figures, public opinion, common sense, logic= all irrelevant when it comes time to force feed laws to the public for their own "good".

Idiots believe what they want to believe, the truth be damned.

Today's mindless liberal lie came from the health czar who stated that 127 million + Americans have preexisting conditions and would be dropped from their health insurance provider without Osamacare.

As a certain right wing extremist radio talk show host said recently, isn't human life a preexisting condition?
Liberals=morons
Republicans= ?
Independent=?

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 05:06:39 AM »
Are those good paying jobs?

Depends on how you view it.  It takes about a year at a vocational school for entry HIS and an associate degree for most HIM candidates.   The starting salary is/would be around 30K-45K the first year.

For an 18 year old out of high school, that is good money for a first career.  For a middle age person with spouse and/or kids, it would not be if they were seeking to change careers.

240 is Back

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 05:39:16 AM »
I heard 255 companies have now received waivers to opt out of obamacare, with more expected.

George Whorewell

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 06:15:19 AM »
Yes 240, you are correct for once. As I mentioned in another thread, these exemptions are going to be for public sector unions and huge corporations. The little guy gets fucked once again by the Democratic party.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2011, 06:18:10 AM »
Yes 240, you are correct for once. As I mentioned in another thread, these exemptions are going to be for public sector unions and huge corporations. The little guy gets fucked once again by the Democratic party.

Every client of mine in small businesses are getting massive rate increases due to this farce.   

Unions, Mega Corps, Wall Street, get the store with Obama and the Dems, small business and middle class gets royally FUCKED.   That is how the dems roll.   

Danny

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2011, 11:44:40 PM »
Every client of mine in small businesses are getting massive rate increases due to this farce.   

Unions, Mega Corps, Wall Street, get the store with Obama and the Dems, small business and middle class gets royally FUCKED.   That is how the dems roll.   

Damn those Dems ...please refresh my memory, who was in power between 2000-2006 when the profits of the insurance companies quadrupled???
"What we do in life ECHOES in eternity "

Soul Crusher

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2011, 03:21:35 AM »
Hey asshole, I could care less what they make, my premium increases were a fraction of what we are getting now due to this bullshit bill. 

whork25

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2011, 03:27:17 AM »
Hey asshole, I could care less what they make, my premium increases were a fraction of what we are getting now due to this bullshit bill. 

How much has your premiums been raised?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2011, 03:29:41 AM »
Over 50 percent within the last year alone. 

whork25

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2011, 03:33:57 AM »
Over 50 percent within the last year alone. 

Who sets the premiums? The insurance companies?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2011, 03:36:34 AM »
And?  Guess why they have to jack up rates? 

Question - how old are you and do you have a job? 

whork25

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2011, 03:43:30 AM »
And?  Guess why they have to jack up rates? 

Question - how old are you and do you have a job? 

To get more money in because its more expensive for them now to offer insurance. However it could just be that they are greedy fuckers you know? They earn shit loads of money also with the higher cost of the insured.

However the politicians should be aware of this before proposing this so i agree is a fuckup by the Obama admin


29 and yes

Soul Crusher

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2011, 03:51:32 AM »
Fair enough.   Problem is that bamacare contains no cost control whatsoever and actually inhibits conmpetition so that there will be even less carriers so you are fucked royally as far as premiums go. 

whork25

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Re: Independent analysis debunks false GOP claims about health reform
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2011, 03:58:29 AM »
Fair enough.   Problem is that bamacare contains no cost control whatsoever and actually inhibits conmpetition so that there will be even less carriers so you are fucked royally as far as premiums go. 

Sounds even worse than before then >:(