On Roe V. Wade Anniversary, Abortion Foes Increasingly Confident of 'Cultural Sh

[tonymctones]

yes - we know that already

isn't that the source of the "unfairness" that you perceive in the current system?

again are you trying to get me to prove your arguement? LOL thats what i get accused of when i ask you questions...

after all the times weve argued this you still have to ask that question straw?

[Straw Man]

again are you trying to get me to prove your arguement? LOL thats what i get accused of when i ask you questions...

after all the times weve argued this you still have to ask that question straw?

I'm not making an argument

you're the one who introduced the concept that the current system is unfair to men

I'm trying to get you to explain what your solution would be to the "unfairness" that you see

I thought you wanted to let fathers off the hook for supporting their kids but I think you said you're not in favor of that so what's left?

[tonymctones]

I'm not making an argument

you're the one who introduced the concept that the current system is unfair to men

I'm trying to get you to explain what your solution would be to the "unfairness" that you see

I thought you wanted to let fathers off the hook for supporting their kids but I think you said you're not in favor of that so what's left?

we let women off the hook for supporting their kids, dont we?

there are a number of different solutions and yes letting the men sign over their legal rights in return for not being financially responsible is one...that doesnt mean im in favor of dead beat dads you fuking moron 

thats like saying being pro choice is being for ppl getting abortions...DUMB ASS

[bears]

dude - no need to apologize and I don't think you're being a dick at all

I'm pro choice and I presume you're not

no big deal

cool.  i'm not necessarily anti abortion.  i'm just anti - they allow abortion now so who gives a fuck about personal responsibility.  I also hate the fact that, in my opinion, too many leftist pro choice people view pregnancy as something that happened TO a girl, and not something she chose to do. 

I am a firm believer in personal reponsibility.  I feel that if a man or woman is doing adult things like sex, it comes with adult responsibilities.  And I do believe that late term abortion is murder.  period.  i've seen my boys when they were 20 weeks old.  They were human beings.  plain and simple.  And I can't overlook that because abortion makes shit easy for people.

[newmom]

i see your point.  I just vehemently disagree with just about everything you have to say on abortion.  And i'm just being a dick cuz i'm having a long day.  I apologize.  

I am a firm believer in personal reponsibility.  I feel that if a man or woman is doing adult things like sex, it comes with adult responsibilities.  And I do believe that late term abortion is murder.  period.  i've seen my boys when they were 20 weeks old.  They were human beings.  plain and simple.  And I can't overlook that because abortion makes shit easy for people.

I believe after 12 weeks, no abortion should be allowed (exception could be health of mother).

I don't think you're being a dick at all. You have strong views on the matter.

[George Whorewell]

Straw= thinks men can become pregnant if they have enough gay sex- ala the mid nineties movie "Junior" staring Arnold Schwarzenegger .

[newmom]

Straw= thinks men can become pregnant if they have enough gay sex- ala the mid nineties movie "Junior" staring Arnold Schwarzenegger .

hey squawkbox be nice

[George Whorewell]

And if I'm not will you be rough with me? If so be careful. My chest and armpit hair is like a brillo pad. 

[newmom]

And if I'm not will you be rough with me? If so be careful. My chest and armpit hair is like a brillo pad. 

Mine too

[George Whorewell]

Friggin awesome. We can take turns scrubbing the pots and pans with our body hair.

[newmom]

Friggin awesome. We can take turns scrubbing the pots and pans with our body hair.

LMAO, idiot

[LurkerNoMore]

no, im saying if the mother has the right to walk away so should the father

read my above post in regards to straw and your misunderstandings...

we are being selective right now on who can and cant walk away...

Yet, in the previous post of yours that I quoted, you said the opposite.  That Crackhead Ted shouldn't be allowed to walk away.  You want men to have the right to sign over all parental rights but yet you expect Crackhead Ted to support his nine kids.  What if he says I don't want to be father.  Bye.  Then what?  By your own basis he should be allowed to walk away to the next baby making machine he meets.

You can't engage in a debate when you are constantly contradicting yourself.

Watching you run in circles pretty much tells the rest of us you have no argument or no way to at least articulate it a way that isn't counter productive to your own viewpoint you are trying to express.

[tonymctones]

ok lets straighten this out for your ignorant ass

i personally feel that you shouldnt have an abortion if its not for medical reasons, i personally feel that you should take care of your children man or woman...

I dont feel comfortable putting MY PERSONAL beliefs on you or someone else for that matter.

my personal beliefs have nothing to do with the unfairness in the system b/c im not putting those beliefs into my opinions of the system...

[Straw Man]

the problem is you've previously stated that if women have the right to "walk away" ( I presume this means the right to have an abortion) then men should get something you consider to be equivalent.

Do you believe this or not?

The reason I ask is because you've said it or alluded to a few times on this thread and many times on previousl threads about abortion:

yup or he should pay some lump sum not a % of his pay check...

the women has the right to terminate his child right now without his say doesnt she?(rhetorical question so straw doesnt think im asking you to prove my argument)

we give women the right to walk away from the child but not the man
we could make it were the man had to split bills while she was pregnant but after that it was HER CHOICE ALONE to do so and SHE ALONE if the man chooses to "abort" the child should not be held responsible

as do I but then again i also think the right thing to do if you get pregnant and your health isnt at risk is to have the child.

as of right now the rights arent equal, She made the decision to have the baby, not him SHE DID

if she had decided to not have the baby, what would the father have gotten? SHAFT

and if she wants the baby and he doesnt...SHAFT

LOL sorry bro 9 months gestation doesnt equal 18 years of child support payments 

[tonymctones]

the problem is you've previously stated that if women have the right to "walk away" ( I presume this means the right to have an abortion) then men should get something you consider to be equivalent.

Do you believe this or not?

The reason I ask is because you've said it or alluded to a few times on this thread and many times on previousl threads about abortion:

seriously are you asking me that again?

look woman can walk away, man cant...its that simple

either both get the chance to walk away or nobody does...pretty simple

[Straw Man]

seriously are you asking me that again?

look woman can walk away, man cant...its that simple

either both get the chance to walk away or nobody does...pretty simple

yes we get it but when we ask how you would actually implement your last sentence you've done nothing but contradict yourself

how would you implement your plan in the real world

[tonymctones]

yes we get it but when we ask how you would actually implement your last sentence you've done nothing but contradict yourself

how would you implement your plan in the real world

LOL no i really havent...

so if she has the ability to have an abortion of soley her choice, he has the ability to sign over legal rights in return for no financial responsibility...

if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be financially responsible for it

[w8m8]

I don't want to butt in .. but I am not understanding where it's right to make some guy be a father .. I think it's totally unfair that a female can get knocked up and choose to have an abortion no matter if the father wants the baby .. "it's her body .. blah blah "

Why is it acceptable then that a man is not given that same opportunity ? .. it should be equal .. women fought for "equal" rights

If the pregnancy is already there ... why does ANY woman think that ANY man would be a father of any sort when he's made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with it ? .. if she wants the baby .. pay for it herself .. get a job .. and he's erased from the whole thing forever

who would want their child getting money from and or visits from some guy who was against having it ?

that's just asking for unnecessary grief and possibly future issues with the child .. sure grow up and know Dad didn't want you and was MADE to pay for your dentist bills .. he hated having to take you to the park but HAD to visit every week .. no friggin way would I want that for any child to deal with

[Straw Man]

LOL no i really havent...

so if she has the ability to have an abortion of soley her choice, he has the ability to sign over legal rights in return for no financial responsibility...

if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be financially responsible for it

I think part of the problem is your poor writing skills

who says "if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be to be financially responsible for it"

let's review two potential scenarios and assume they are all happening now within our current legal system:

Scenario #1:  A woman get's pregnant and doesn't want to have a child so she get's an abortion thus neither person has any ongoing obligation

Secnario #2:  A woman get's pregnant and, like yourself, is opposed to abortion so has the child and let's say in this example the man does not want the child.  Should he be financially responsible for the child or not?


from reading your prior posts I would have to assume your answer to scenario #2 would be  both YES and NO

which one is it ?

[tonymctones]

I think part of the problem is your poor writing skills
who says "if she is meant to keep the child then he is meant to be to be financially responsible for it"

let's review two potential scenarios and assume they are all happening now within our current legal system:

Scenario #1:  A woman get's pregnant and doesn't want to have a child so she get's an abortion thus neither person has any ongoing obligation

Secnario #2:  A woman get's pregnant and, like yourself, is opposed to abortion so has the child and let's say in this example the man does not want the child.  Should he be financially responsible for the child or not?

lol sorry im sick and a tad loopy from the night time tylenol...

to answer your question to #2 it depends on whether she had the choice to have an abortion or not

if yes she did have the choice, then the man should also have the choice

if no then, no

i think youre getting confused b/c youre taking post out of context. I feel that men should take care of their children forcefully if needed, I also feel women should take care of their children forcefully if needed.

but if you give one the opportunity to walk away you logically in fairness need to give the other the opportunity to walk away

you dont get to have it both ways

notice w8m8 quote "women fought for equal rights"?


from reading your prior posts I would have to assume your answer to scenario #2 would be  both YES and NO

which one is it ?

[Straw Man]

I don't want to butt in .. but I am not understanding where it's right to make some guy be a father .. I think it's totally unfair that a female can get knocked up and choose to have an abortion no matter if the father wants the baby .. "it's her body .. blah blah "

Why is it acceptable then that a man is not given that same opportunity ? .. it should be equal .. women fought for "equal" rights

If the pregnancy is already there ... why does ANY woman think that ANY man would be a father of any sort when he's made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with it ? .. if she wants the baby .. pay for it herself .. get a job .. and he's erased from the whole thing forever

who would want their child getting money from and or visits from some guy who was against having it ?

that's just asking for unnecessary grief and possibly future issues with the child .. sure grow up and know Dad didn't want you and was MADE to pay for your dentist bills .. he hated having to take you to the park but HAD to visit every week .. no friggin way would I want that for any child to deal with

the only problem is that reality is not equal and there is no way to make it equal (at least not one we've found yet)

it is the womans body and she is the one who has to endure pregnancy and birth

if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex.    If he has sex he should always use a condom and be aware of the very slim odds that the condom will fail.   He could even talk with the woman about what she woudl want to do if she was to get pregant and if she says she would keep the kid then he can decide whether to have sex (take the chance or not)

If the women is opposed to abortion and does get pregnant then they are both financially responsible unless they choose to put it up for adoption

Most responsible adults can deal with those rules

[tonymctones]

the only problem is that reality is not equal and there is no way to make it equal (at least not one we've found yet)

it is the womans body and she is the one who has to endure pregnancy and birth

if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex.    If he has sex he should always use a condom and be aware of the very slim odds that the condom will fail.   He could even talk with the woman about what she woudl want to do if she was to get pregant and if she says she would keep the kid then he can decide whether to have sex (take the chance or not)

If the women is opposed to abortion and does get pregnant then they are both financially responsible unless they choose to put it up for adoption

Most responsible adults can deal with those rules

LOL again legality doesnt equal morality straw

simply b/c most ppl can live with them doesnt make them right 

why is this idea not applied to the women? "if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex."

b/c its her body correct?

well if its her body why is the man held accountable the decision she makes soley on her own about her body?

[bears]

LOL again legality doesnt equal morality straw

simply b/c most ppl can live with them doesnt make them right 

why is this idea not applied to the women? "if the man does not want to deal with the potential of having to support a child that he doesn't want then all he has to do it make the choice to not have sex."

b/c its her body correct?

well if its her body why is the man held accountable the decision she makes soley on her own about her body?

i was going to say the same thing.  what if the woman wants to get an abortion and the man is against it?  "Don't kill my baby" he says.  "Fuck you", she tells him.  "I'm killing it.".  Now does the same rule apply to her?  She could have simply chosen not to have sex.  But now she is responsible for the man's child.  If he must own up and face the responsibility then she would have to as well.  Your scenario only accounts for the opposite.  Again, I hate how libs view pregnancy as something that happened TO the woman.  She made a chioce.  And if you say "well she gave has to give birth to the baby so she has the right to kill it" I just simply disagree and think that's just bullshit logic and unfair.

[Straw Man]

lol sorry im sick and a tad loopy from the night time tylenol...

to answer your question to #2 it depends on whether she had the choice to have an abortion or not
if yes she did have the choice, then the man should also have the choice

if no then, no

i think youre getting confused b/c youre taking post out of context. I feel that men should take care of their children forcefully if needed, I also feel women should take care of their children forcefully if needed.

but if you give one the opportunity to walk away you logically in fairness need to give the other the opportunity to walk away

you dont get to have it both ways

notice w8m8 quote "women fought for equal rights"?


from reading your prior posts I would have to assume your answer to scenario #2 would be  both YES and NO

which one is it ?

I said the example was within our current legal system so obviously that means she has the choice

I also said she was personally opposed to abortion (again indicating a choice on her part)

so I assume your answer is YES that the man get's to walk away and could simply do this over and over and leave the financial burden for supporting his children to the rest of us

[tonymctones]

I said the example was within our current legal system so obviously that means she has the choice

I also said she was personally opposed to abortion (again indicating a choice on her part)

so I assume your answer is YES that the man get's to walk away and could simply do this over and over and leave the financial burden for supporting his children to the rest of us

can women get abortion after abortion leaving the men who may want them childless?

lol sorry straw either they both get a choice or neither should