Pres. Signs H-Care Insurance Mandate-212 Years Ago!

[Straw Man]

The argument is that those private citizens VOLUNTEERED to do business with the federal government, just as private companies today, that do business with the Department of Defense, have to abide by certain DoD rules.

As others have stated, they weren't forced to be seaman. Nor were they forced to buy insurance once they stopped being seaman.

And, if what Skip said is accurate, those seamen were indeed GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.

They were employed by privately owned vessels.   They were not government employees

[MCWAY]

They were employed by privately owned vessels.   They were not government employees

If those vessels did work for the government, they were effectively government employees.

Private businessmen can contract themselves and their vehicles/vessels to do government work. But, to get paid, they must follow certain government rules.

No other private citizen, in a different line of work, was required to purchase insurance. You didn't see blacksmiths having to buy this, did you?

[tonymctones]

They were employed by privately owned vessels.   They were not government employees

and did the govt force them to work on those vessels?

or did they just say IF you work for these vessels you have to meet certain requirements?

kinda like auto insurance?

and nothing like the health care bill?

[Straw Man]

and did the govt force them to work on those vessels?
or did they just say IF you work for these vessels you have to meet certain requirements?

kinda like auto insurance?

and nothing like the health care bill?

no idea, but I would expect the answer would be no, although the question is irrelevent

pick any field of work today (prior to this legislation)

did the government require you to participate in the employer's health insurance coverage and require you to pay for it?

[Soul Crusher]

What if someone is broke, has no job, no income, and the subsidies don't cover the costs for insurance? 

[tonymctones]

no idea, but I would expect the answer would be no, although the question is irrelevent

pick any field of work today (prior to this legislation)

did the government require you to participate in the employer's health insurance coverage and require you to pay for it?

you can opt out of employee health plans!!!!!!!

YOU CANT OPT OUT OF THIS BULL SHIT!!!!!!!!!

youre ignorance is boundless

[Straw Man]

If those vessels did work for the government, they were effectively government employees.

Private businessmen can contract themselves and their vehicles/vessels to do government work. But, to get paid, they must follow certain government rules.

No other private citizen, in a different line of work, was required to purchase insurance. You didn't see blacksmiths having to buy this, did you?

again


this was directed at privately owned vessels

[tonymctones]

again


this was directed at privately owned vessels

that contracted with the govt, right?

again either way it doesnt matter b/c the govt didnt force them to work as sailors for those companies...

your justification for this mandate by using that stipulation is ignorant and just plain idiotic

[Straw Man]

that contracted with the govt, right?
again either way it doesnt matter b/c the govt didnt force them to work as sailors for those companies...

your justification for this mandate by using that stipulation is ignorant and just plain idiotic

wrong

[Soul Crusher]

Straw - ever hear of prevailing wage jobs with the govt? 

Yes or no?   

[tonymctones]

wrong

great rebuttle dumb ass...

didnt address one point, side stepped everything, ascerted more ignorance and gave no reasoning for your idiocy...

again did they force them to be sailors with these companies?

or did they say if your going to CHOOSE to be a sailor AND work for these companies you have to have insurance?

yea youre right thats exactly like saying EVERYONE must buy insurance REGARDLESS OF ANY PERSONAL CHOICES

moron

[Straw Man]

great rebuttle dumb ass...
didnt address one point, side stepped everything, ascerted more ignorance and gave no reasoning for your idiocy...

again did they force them to be sailors with these companies?

or did they say if your going to CHOOSE to be a sailor AND work for these companies you have to have insurance?

yea youre right thats exactly like saying EVERYONE must buy insurance REGARDLESS OF ANY PERSONAL CHOICES

moron

I answered your question dipshit

I could care less what you think about it

the fact is that the government chose an industry and required private workers in that industry to buy health insurance and penatlize those employers who did not collect the insurance

those are historical facts

you're free to draw your own conclusions about the significance of those facts

[tonymctones]

I answered your question dipshit

I could care less what you think about it

the fact is that the government chose an industry and required private workers in that industry to buy health insurance and penatlize those employers who did not collect the insurance

those are historical facts

you're free to draw your own conclusions about the significance of those facts

it didnt choose an industry it choose specific employers that did business with the govt...it didnt say all sailors did it?

i agree its a fact they did this, BUT IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON THE CURRENT MANDATE YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats the point

this is nothing like what youre trying to compare it to you dumb ass

[tonymctones]

it didnt choose an industry it choose specific employers that did business with the govt...it didnt say all sailors did it?

i agree its a fact they did this, BUT IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON THE CURRENT MANDATE YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats the point

this is nothing like what youre trying to compare it to you dumb ass

ill answer that for you...

That from and after the first day of September next, the master or owner of every ship or vessel of the United States, arriving from a foreign port into any port of the United States,

yet again another CHOICE!!!

tell me where the choice is in the idiotic mandate youre trying to compare to this legislation?

[Soul Crusher]

If you are well connected to this Admn, ACORN, SEIU, etc you get a waiver.   

[tonymctones]

If you are well connected to this Admn, ACORN, SEIU, etc you get a waiver.   

that must be the choice straw man is seeing...

if you choose to gobble the cock of the president you dont have to buy insurance

[Soul Crusher]

I really dont see how Straw cant see the difference here.    I know he is dense, but come on already.     

[Straw Man]

ill answer that for you...

That from and after the first day of September next, the master or owner of every ship or vessel of the United States, arriving from a foreign port into any port of the United States,

yet again another CHOICE!!!

tell me where the choice is in the idiotic mandate youre trying to compare to this legislation?

you should have highlighted the following part instead.

privately owned ships "of the United States"

This was later expanded expanded to cover sailors working the private vessels sailing the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.

so cleary there is a precedent for the Federal government to require private workers to purchase health insurance.     

That from and after the first day of September next, the master or owner of every ship

or vessel of the United States, arriving from a foreign port into any

port of the United States

[tonymctones]

you should have highlighted the following part instead.

privately owned ships "of the United States"

This was later expanded expanded to cover sailors working the private vessels sailing the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.

so cleary there is a precedent for the Federal government to require private workers to purchase health insurance.     

yes straw just like your car is privately owned but guess what?

the govt didnt force you to buy that car, just like the govt didnt force any of those ppl to become sailors...

in response to the bold...AGAIN YOU FUKING MORON, that is regulating an ACTION as in they CHOOSE to become sailors...you can regulate ACTIONS

YOU CANNOT REGULATE INACTION

where is the choice in obamacares mandate?

^^^^^^

ANSWER THAT QUESTION BRAIN CHILD

[Soul Crusher]

Straw - very often times the govt sets conditions if you want to do businesswith it - such as prevailing wage laws, using union labor, etc.   

However, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE not to bid work or contracts put out by the govt if you dont want to comply with that. 

Where is the same choice in Bamacare?

[tonymctones]

you should have highlighted the following part instead.

privately owned ships "of the United States"

This was later expanded expanded to cover sailors working the private vessels sailing the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.

so cleary there is a precedent for the Federal government to require private workers to purchase health insurance.     

you continue to miss the point...

THEY MADE THE CHOICE TO DO THAT!!!!!!!!


WHERE IS THE CHOICE IN OBAMACARE?

[Straw Man]

Straw - very often times the govt sets conditions if you want to do businesswith it - such as prevailing wage laws, using union labor, etc.   

However, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE not to bid work or contracts put out by the govt if you dont want to comply with that. 

Where is the same choice in Bamacare?

I'd be fine with a one time opt out for anyone who wants it but they forfeit the option to ever get back in.  and if they don't have their own private insurance ( or can't afford it or get tossed out by their insurance company etc..) they must pay for all care out of their own pocket, including any emergency care

I'd have no problem with that and I doubt very many people would be stupid enough to do that

[tonymctones]

I'd be fine with a one time opt out for anyone who wants it but they forfeit the option to ever get back in.  and if they don't have their own private insurance ( or can't afford it or get tossed out by their insurance company etc..) they must pay for all care out of their own pocket, including any emergency care

I'd have no problem with that and I doubt very many people would be stupid enough to do that

way to answer his question straw man...

where is the choice in obama care?

as for the bold why dont we just pass that and then it would solve the entire problem, wouldnt it?

we dont need a mandate, no single payer etc...you pay for your own shit...

hmmm personal responsiblity...what a novel concept 

[Straw Man]

Straw - very often times the govt sets conditions if you want to do businesswith it - such as prevailing wage laws, using union labor, etc.   

However, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE not to bid work or contracts put out by the govt if you dont want to comply with that. 

Where is the same choice in Bamacare?

This Act has nothing to do with government contracts.  Participation was not an option.  It was mandatory.

If you didn't pay you were essentially barred from doing business

[Straw Man]

way to answer his question straw man...

where is the choice in obama care?

as for the bold why dont we just pass that and then it would solve the entire problem, wouldnt it?

we dont need a mandate, no single payer etc...you pay for your own shit...

hmmm personal responsiblity...what a novel concept 

you have a choice

partipate or pay a fine (just like the legislation from 1798)