Pres. Signs H-Care Insurance Mandate-212 Years Ago!

[tonymctones]

not because it was unconstitutional but because was basically ineffective and no longer necessary

still, the founders did pass it and you'd think they would understand the constitution which they themselves wrote

they very much did you see the govt has the authority under the constitution to call out, organize and discipline militia...

education is a bitch to idiots with talking points...

http://www.slate.com/id/2278063/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_%28United_States%29#Constitution_and_Bill_of_Rights_.281787-1789.29

[tonymctones]

what part of the constitution gives the right to mandate health care strawman?

[Kazan]

it wasn't repealed because it was deemed unconstitutional and just like the early insurance mandate it carved out which people were required to purchase.   If a group of people can be defined in one set of legislation then I don't see why a "group" cannot be redefined in another piece of legislation.   

btw - I've said many times I'd be fine with an opt out provision

opt out and then you're on your own

that's what all these freedom loving patriots claim they want right.  They want to the governmetn to get off their back so I say make if that's what you want then we should give anyone who chooses the one time option to get out and stay out

Comparing the militia act with this health care bill is like comparing apples to tomato's. It is not even remotely the same thing. The very existence of the country doesn't hing on the ability to provide "affordable" health care.

[Straw Man]

what part of the constitution gives the right to mandate health care strawman?

the same part that allowed them to require citizens working on ships, riverboats, etc.. to pay for health insurance whether they wanted to or not

btw - change the mandate to a tax if you want or opt out

either one of those options works for me

[tonymctones]

the same part that allowed them to require citizens working on ships, riverboats, etc.. to pay for health insurance whether they wanted to or not

btw - change the mandate to a tax if you want or opt out

either one of those options works for me

LOL again dumb ass...that was regulating an action...like car insurance...they had the choice to work there

what choice does obamacare give us?

[Straw Man]

they very much did you see the govt has the authority under the constitution to call out, organize and discipline militia...
education is a bitch to idiots with talking points...

http://www.slate.com/id/2278063/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_%28United_States%29#Constitution_and_Bill_of_Rights_.281787-1789.29

do we require soldiers to purchase their own weapons?

[tonymctones]

do we require soldiers to purchase their own weapons?

ahhh i honestly couldnt tell you but again...ppl choose to be soldiers...

you seem to miss the main part...

there is a CHOICE in the things you try to compare to obamacares mandate...

In obama care there is NO CHOICE!!!!!!!!

thats the main difference...

[Straw Man]

LOL again dumb ass...that was regulating an action...like car insurance...they had the choice to work there

what choice does obamacare give us?

regulating action

what does that even mean

the govt specified a group of private workers and required them to pay for health insurance and penalized their employer if they did not

I don't why that can't be expanded to larger and larger groups or .... the largest group which is all citizens

for about the 5th time now, I'd be fine with a one time opt out

I think it woud turn out to be a good thing for the human race as the more stupid people will not have insurance and will die off sooner

I'm all for that and it would not effect the viability of the program as those who opt out can never get back in so they will not be a financial burden on the system

dont' you think that's a fair compromise?

[tonymctones]

regulating action

what does that even mean

the govt specified a group of private workers and required them to pay for health insurance and penalized their employer if they did not

I don't why that can't be expanded to larger and larger groups or .... the largest group which is all citizens

for about the 5th time now, I'd be fine with a one time opt out

I think it woud turn out to be a good thing for the human race as the more stupid people will not have insurance and will die off sooner

I'm all for that and it would not effect the viability of the program as those who opt out can never get back in so they will not be a financial burden on the system

dont' you think that's a fair compromise?

HOLY SHIT SON, are you really that dumb?

the govt specified that IF someone CHOSE to work in that industry with those companies...

IF and CHOSE...

there is not IF or CHOOSE for obamacare you idiot...

thats the difference...

why dont we just stop giving free health care to ppl? that would solve the problem all together as they are the reason for this bill...

[Straw Man]

HOLY SHIT SON, are you really that dumb?

the govt specified that IF someone CHOSE to work in that industry with those companies...

IF and CHOSE...

there is not IF or CHOOSE for obamacare you idiot...

thats the difference...

why dont we just stop giving free health care to ppl? that would solve the problem all together as they are the reason for this bill...

yet again

I've said I'm in favor of a one time choice to opt out

would you be in favor of that?

[tonymctones]

yet again

I've said I'm in favor of a one time choice to opt out

would you be in favor of that?

id be in favor of making ppl pay for their medical expenses...

if we did that then we wouldnt need to do anything else...

opt out of what, health insurance? single payer system?

[Straw Man]

id be in favor of making ppl pay for their medical expenses...
if we did that then we wouldnt need to do anything else...

so you're against the concept of insurance?
you're aware how health insurance is "paid for" most of the time ?

opt out of what, health insurance? single payer system?

we don't a single payer system

haven't you been bitching and moaning about the recent legislation...aka "Obamacare"  (which most likely you aren't even on - I know I'm not)?


Don't you know what "choice" you've been bellyaching about for the last 2 pages ?

[tonymctones]

so you're against the concept of insurance?
you're aware how health insurance is "paid for" most of the time ?

we don't a single payer system

haven't you been bitching and moaning about the recent legislation...aka "Obamacare"  (which most likely you aren't even on - I know I'm not)?


Don't you know what "choice" you've been bellyaching about for the last 2 pages ?

I never said i was against health insurance...

my comment was for ppl that CHOOSE(again notice the CHOICE) to no have health insurance...

Im not in favor of a unconstitutional mandate that FORCES ppl to buy something against their CHOICE...

so no im not in favor of an opt out, im in favor of making ppl who CHOOSE to not have health insurance pay their medical expenses...RENDERING THE MANDATE POINTLESS!!!

[Straw Man]

I never said i was against health insurance...

my comment was for ppl that CHOOSE(again notice the CHOICE) to no have health insurance...

dude - have you read your last few posts

id be in favor of making ppl pay for their medical expenses...

people (as a general rule) don't pay for their medical expenses (excluding deductables, co-pay etc)

I can't believe you confused abut what "choice" I'm talking about but just in case you're truly confused I'll make it crystal clear

I'm sure you will agree you've been bitching about the requiredment that in Obamacare that you have to buy health insurance

answer yes

or

no

feel free to explain but even a one word answer is fine

[tonymctones]

dude - have you read your last few posts

people (as a general rule) don't pay for their medical expenses (excluding deductables, co-pay etc)

LOL yes i have its a simple misunderstanding by you, something youve been doing since the very first post in this thread...

If ppl CHOOSE to not have health insurance then they should have to pay their own medical expenses...

if we did this would we need a mandate? NO we wouldnt b/c they are the reason for the mandate...

SO NOOOOOO im not for a one time opt out b/c IM NOT FOR THE MANDATE AT ALL

there is no need for the mandate if we made ppl take responsibility for their own actions...

[Straw Man]

LOL yes i have its a simple misunderstanding by you, something youve been doing since the very first post in this thread...

If ppl CHOOSE to not have health insurance then they should have to pay their own medical expenses...

no shit Sherlock - what other way would it be if you don't have medical insurance

if we did this would we need a mandate? NO we wouldnt b/c they are the reason for the mandate...

SO NOOOOOO im not for a one time opt out b/c IM NOT FOR THE MANDATE AT ALL

there is no need for the mandate if we made ppl take responsibility for their own actions...

I don't think you understand how insurance works.

if you're not going to have insurance but then want access to the system when you get sick then the system won't work

do you understand this?

When you've been bitching about "choice" I've been saying I'm fine giving you a one time choice to opt in our out.   If you opt out then you're on your own.  You can buy private insurance or pay all medical expenses out of pocket but you never get a chance to get back into the system.    This way you can't harm the system by trying to get back in once you're sick

[tonymctones]

no shit Sherlock - what other way would it be if you don't have medical insurance


I don't think you understand how insurance works.

if you're not going to have insurance but then want access to the system when you get sick then the system won't work

do you understand this?

thats the way the system works now dumb ass...if ppl cant pay it gets passed on to the tax payer...THATS THE REASON FOR THE MANDATE YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you force ppl to pay for their medical expenses if they CHOOSE to not carry health insurance...THEIR IS NO NEED FOR A MANDATE!!!!!!!!!!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS???

When you've been bitching about "choice" I've been saying I'm fine giving you a one time choice to opt in our out.   If you opt out then you're on your own.  You can buy private insurance or pay all medical expenses out of pocket but you never get a chance to get back into the system.    This way you can't harm the system by trying to get back in once you're sick
[/quote
LMFAO, goodness gracious bro youre really retarded...

the system thats being set up is still private...youre still buying private insurance whether youre in the system or not...do you not understand that?

[Straw Man]

thats the way the system works now dumb ass...if ppl cant pay it gets passed on to the tax payer...THATS THE REASON FOR THE MANDATE YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you force ppl to pay for their medical expenses if they CHOOSE to not carry health insurance...THEIR IS NO NEED FOR A MANDATE!!!!!!!!!!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS???

When you've been bitching about "choice" I've been saying I'm fine giving you a one time choice to opt in our out.   If you opt out then you're on your own.  You can buy private insurance or pay all medical expenses out of pocket but you never get a chance to get back into the system.    This way you can't harm the system by trying to get back in once you're sick
[/quote
LMFAO, goodness gracious bro youre really retarded...

the system thats being set up is still private...youre still buying private insurance whether youre in the system or not...do you not understand that?

I swear I'm starting to think you're the one that truly is retarded (no joke)

it seems you don't actually understand how insurance works

You've been bitching about a mandate i.e the requirement that you have to purcahse insurance

yes or no

for the sake of time I'm going to ssume your answer is YES

the mandate is necessary so that everyone in the "risk pool" participates when they are healthy.   Without this mandate the system would not work because we'd have people like you who CHOOSE not to buy insurance but would then want to get into the system when they get sick

How is it that you can't understand that simple concept?

you've made the following statement a few times so it's clear you have no clue how this works

if you force ppl to pay for their medical expenses if they CHOOSE to not carry health insurance...THEIR IS NO NEED FOR A MANDATE!!!!!!!!!!

if they don't have insurance (i.e. chose to opt out of the mandate) then they will be paying all expenses out of pocket and no one will be "forced' to do anything.  It will be the automatic consequence of their actions.   They have no health insurance so if they need health care they will pay it out of pocket or they won't get it

[tonymctones]

I swear I'm starting to think you're the one that truly is retarded (no joke)

it seems you don't actually understand how insurance works

You've been bitching about a mandate i.e the requirement that you have to purcahse insurance

yes or no

for the sake of time I'm going to ssume your answer is YES

the mandate is necessary so that everyone in the "risk pool" participates when they are healthy.   Without this mandate the system would not work because we'd have people like you who CHOOSE not to buy insurance but would then want to get into the system when they get sick

How is it that you can't understand that simple concept?

NOT AT ALL BRAIN CHILD...if like the CURRENT SYSTEM there is say a year waiting period before treating pre-existing conditions after signing up then the mandate is not necissary...simply keep that in place and make ppl who CHOOSE not to carry insurance pay their own medical expenses...

the mandate is needed b/c...FIRST AND FOREMOST it takes the onus of paying for medical costs of those that dont have insurance and dont pay off the govt...MAKING PEOPLE PAY FOR THEIR MEDICAL EXPENSES DEALS WITH THAT...also like you mentioned insurance needs more healthy ppl paying premiums than they do sick ppl taking payments...THEY SEEM TO BE DOING FINE RIGHT NOW PROFIT WISE...so simply make ppl who CHOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSEEE EEEEEEEEEEEE not to carry insurance pay their own way...

[Straw Man]

NOT AT ALL BRAIN CHILD...if like the CURRENT SYSTEM there is say a year waiting period before treating pre-existing conditions after signing up then the mandate is not necissary...simply keep that in place and make ppl who CHOOSE not to carry insurance pay their own medical expenses...

the mandate is needed b/c...FIRST AND FOREMOST it takes the onus of paying for medical costs of those that dont have insurance and dont pay off the govt...MAKING PEOPLE PAY FOR THEIR MEDICAL EXPENSES DEALS WITH THAT...also like you mentioned insurance needs more healthy ppl paying premiums than they do sick ppl taking payments...THEY SEEM TO BE DOING FINE RIGHT NOW PROFIT WISE...so simply make ppl who CHOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSEEE EEEEEEEEEEEE not to carry insurance pay their own way...

the mandate = requirement that everyone have some sort of insurance

you do understand that right ?

I'm not going any further if you don't understand that

yes or no answer is fine

[tonymctones]

the mandate = requirement that everyone have some sort of insurance

you do understand that right ?

I'm not going any further if you don't understand that

yes or no answer is fine

yes...

the reason =  to take the onus of paying for medical expenses off of the govt for those that do not have health insurance and do not pay out of their own pocket...

you do understand that right?

Im not going any further if you dont understand that

yes or no answer is fine

[Skip8282]

regulating action

what does that even mean

the govt specified a group of private workers and required them to pay for health insurance and penalized their employer if they did not

I don't why that can't be expanded to larger and larger groups or .... the largest group which is all citizens

In order for Congress to make the individual mandate applicable to everybody, they have to show it's within the scope of the commerce clause.  More specifically, that it falls under "activities affecting interstate commerce".

Obamacare is attempting to regulate economic inactivity.

Even the Constitutional lawyers for the government didn't try to argue the case on the grounds of this legislation.  That should tell you something.

But, continue calling others retards. 

[tonymctones]

In order for Congress to make the individual mandate applicable to everybody, they have to show it's within the scope of the commerce clause.  More specifically, that it falls under "activities affecting interstate commerce".

Obamacare is attempting to regulate economic inactivity.

Even the Constitutional lawyers for the government didn't try to argue the case on the grounds of this legislation.  That should tell you something.

But, continue calling others retards. 

^^^^
THIS Straw

action, inaction

activity, inactivity...

[Straw Man]

yes...

the reason =  to take the onus of paying for medical expenses off of the govt for those that do not have health insurance and do not pay out of their own pocket...

you do understand that right?

Im not going any further if you dont understand that

yes or no answer is fine

as usual, you have a very confused and tenuous grasp on what is a very simple concept but it's enough probably enough to move forward.

The current legislation requires you to have health insurance or you have to pay a very nominal penalty

this is something that you're opposed to because you say it takes away your ability to CHOOSE to not have health insurance

have I summarized your position correctly so far?

 

[tonymctones]

as usual, you have a very confused and tenuous grasp on what is a very simple concept but it's enough probably enough to move forward.

The current legislation requires you to have health insurance or you have to pay a very nominal penalty

this is something that you're opposed to because you say it takes away your ability to CHOOSE to not have health insurance

have I summarized your position correctly so far?

 

yes...

the reason =  to take the onus of paying for medical expenses off of the govt for those that do not have health insurance and do not pay out of their own pocket...

you do understand that right?

Im not going any further if you dont understand that

yes or no answer is fine

I answered your question now be so kind as to answer mine...