Is this the average thought of a Religious american? bill o riley

[tonymctones]

I'd be happy to debate if you have time. Not to prove a point or for you to change your beliefs, but just to ask questions, raise questions, and understand what thoughts we hold

without a doubt my man, i like your attitude

always up for a good conversation

[Mr. Magoo]

without a doubt my man, i like your attitude

always up for a good conversation

I just reread your posts on this thread and I'm not 100% sure I understand your position

you claim it is wrong for anyone to be certain about whether God does or does not exist, and you also believe that evolution does not disprove God. Is this correct? Do you believe in God (God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam)? I couldn't tell by your statements if you do. If so, is it by faith and not evidence?

To go back quickly to the claim you made that evolution does not disprove God. This is a common viewpoint for catholics. I agree that God could have started evolution and I think a strong case can be made for that. But how do you interpret Genesis now? Do you discount it because the writers could have not known about evolution, or do you interpret the story itself in a different way? If you discount the story entirely, do you feel it will soon be common to discount other parts of the Bible, and will this lead to a slippery slope for religion?

[tonymctones]

I just reread your posts on this thread and I'm not 100% sure I understand your position

you claim it is wrong for anyone to be certain about whether God does or does not exist, and you also believe that evolution does not disprove God. Is this correct? Do you believe in God (God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam)? I couldn't tell by your statements if you do. If so, is it by faith and not evidence?

To go back quickly to the claim you made that evolution does not disprove God. This is a common viewpoint for catholics. I agree that God could have started evolution and I think a strong case can be made for that. But how do you interpret Genesis now? Do you discount it because the writers could have not known about evolution, or do you interpret the story itself in a different way? If you discount the story entirely, do you feel it will soon be common to discount other parts of the Bible, and will this lead to a slippery slope for religion?

I do believe in God, Jesus Christ more specifically but the meaning of those posts where not in terms of a specific god. I was more arguing the idea that evolution does not disprove the idea of a god or higher being and in my mind that would be my personal savior.

Good question, I would say by both faith and evidence. Every form of belief takes some degree of evidence and some degree of faith even in science faith is used in theories. The difference is the varying degrees and what constitutes evidence to you. When the world was thought to be flat there was "science" that backed that up and the faith that if you sailed to far you would fall off the edge of the world. Religion too has evidence although some things may not be considered evidence by everyone and yes a good amount of faith is required as well.

The concept that evolution doesnt disprove god is quite popular in both secular and non secular arenas. If Charles Darwin the founder of natural selection and its processes can reconcile the ideas then I dont think it should be to hard of a jump for others.

I look at many of the stories in the bible as ways that those at the time viewed the events or were able to write about the events in a manner that was acceptable to their time. I do not necissarily take a literal view of the Bible thats not to say that I dont take anything literal in the Bible. It not nor should it be one way or the other if you ask me, think about playing a 2000 year long game of telephone...the exact wording you started with isnt necissarily going to be the exact wording you end up with. There are also translations between languages that need to be accounted for. My mother is japanese and even to this day when i hear or read something in japanese and ask what it means she sometimes says that there isnt really a word for that in english of that is doesnt translate well. Can you imagine the amount if translation problems between the many different languages and 2000 years of vernacular/slang?

[Mr. Magoo]

I would have quoted your post but the damn message box or whatever keeps scrolling when a message is long and you quote it and then type.

Since you mentioned Jesus, I think I'll take the conversation this direction. I think i'll leave the evolution stuff for now since we agree that religion can coexist with evolution. How do you believe a person becomes saved? I assume it's the traditional "Trust on the lord Jesus Christ and tho shalt be saved". Let's examine that if you don't mind. Of course I'm willing to start a new thread if you want.

Let's say there is a person here named Bob. How does Bob get to heaven? Is it Be convinced that Jesus came and died for his sins and that he'll spend eternity in heaven with Jesus and fellow believers if he trusts on Jesus as his savior? What if Bob lived before Jesus? What if Bob lived after Jesus but never heard of Jesus. What if Bob died while Jesus was alive. What if Bob is mentally handicapped. What if Bob is a child.

Let's say Bob is 3 years old right now (below the age of accountability if you believe in that). I keep Bob locked in a room for 12 years and bring him food and water every day. When Bob turns 15, I kill Bob. Bob was above the age of accountability (I think we can agree on that, again assuming that you follow the traditional route), and he did not believe on Jesus Christ as his savior, so he died in his sins. Does Bob go to hell? I, on the other hand, could have been saved the whole time when i killed Bob (but not a good christian). So does Bob go to hell while I go to heaven?

[tonymctones]

I would have quoted your post but the damn message box or whatever keeps scrolling when a message is long and you quote it and then type.

Since you mentioned Jesus, I think I'll take the conversation this direction. I think i'll leave the evolution stuff for now since we agree that religion can coexist with evolution. How do you believe a person becomes saved? I assume it's the traditional "Trust on the lord Jesus Christ and tho shalt be saved". Let's examine that if you don't mind. Of course I'm willing to start a new thread if you want.

Let's say there is a person here named Bob. How does Bob get to heaven? Is it Be convinced that Jesus came and died for his sins and that he'll spend eternity in heaven with Jesus and fellow believers if he trusts on Jesus as his savior? What if Bob lived before Jesus? What if Bob lived after Jesus but never heard of Jesus. What if Bob died while Jesus was alive. What if Bob is mentally handicapped. What if Bob is a child.

Let's say Bob is 3 years old right now (below the age of accountability if you believe in that). I keep Bob locked in a room for 12 years and bring him food and water every day. When Bob turns 15, I kill Bob. Bob was above the age of accountability (I think we can agree on that, again assuming that you follow the traditional route), and he did not believe on Jesus Christ as his savior, so he died in his sins. Does Bob go to hell? I, on the other hand, could have been saved the whole time when i killed Bob (but not a good christian). So does Bob go to hell while I go to heaven?

LOL i think you may be the only other person on getbig that has that problem...every other person i tell that to has no idea what im talking about. Thats ok as long as swede and BB dont mind us jacking this thread its fine with me.

All good questions and all questions ive asked myself at some point in my life and my path with God. The short answer is I dont know and I dont know how anybody can presume to say they do for a certainty to be honest. There are ideas that lead me to believe that a good and benevolent God would take their circumstances into consideration. I also believe that simply knowing of God and believing in him doesnt grant you access to Heaven. Simply believing in God and asking forgiveness with your tongue is not the same as repenting from your sins.

other good question is that if man is made in Gods image and is capable of evil, does that mean God is capable of evil?

or if God is really all good and all powerful would he create a being that is capable of evil?

iono man, I think you live your life the best you can with the information you have available and thats really all you can do.

question for you, you dont quite seem like an atheist...perhaps an agnostic...if so what is keeping you from commiting to one religion?

[Mr. Magoo]

The evil question is a very tricky one and I've thought about it a lot

God had to knowingly create evil with the capability to not create evil and he also gave us the power to understand what he created as "evil". If this leads some men away from God (i.e. "How can an all good God create evil when God knew what would happen, could have prevented it from happening, and not wanted it to happen? (omnipredicates)) then why did he do it if he intends on us not to be lead away from him (using "him" as a general, not as a male).

Your sentence that says "I think you live your life the best you can with the information you have available and that's really all you can do". So do you believe other religions will be in heaven too? By the way, your belief there is basically what Thomas Jefferson believe. He believed it was the (if i can remember correctly), the search for truth and not where that search might lead you that was important. Instead of happening to put ones money on the right bet, it was the journey of searching and understanding that's important.

And in response to your question to me. I am not an atheist, it's impossible to prove that God (or Gods) does not exist. As for what religion I commit to. It's very confusing. The mere fact of committing to one religion entails that I'm claiming knowledge which is impossible for me to have. The truth is, any religion is most likely filled with a ton of inaccuracies (of course that brings up the question: Why would God allow inaccuracies on something so crucial as this). I'll just say that it's very confusing and I've spent a lot of time thinking about it and learning as much as I can.