Can Hollywood Do a Better Job Casting Super-Heros?

[Parker]

I felt asleep during the movie, AT the movie theater.

either it was boring or I was really tired, but it's tough to fall asleep at the theater 

I kinda liked it, of course it wasn't like the cartoon...

[galain]

We need a timeline to discuss this. Pre Burton and post Burton.

Pre Burton, you had a reasonable attempt to match superheroes with their comic book depictions. Nic Hammond as Spidey in the 70's wasn't all that muscular, but at the time, Spidey wasn't drawn with too many muscles anyway. Arnold as Conan was prefect casting, Christopher Reeves was physically not really what Superman could have been, but facially he fit the bill so well. And for such an iconic character, you really needed someone the audience would accept without question. With Reeves I think this was the case, so his skinny-ness was easily overlooked. On tv, Captain Marvel wasn't huge huge, but certainly bigger than the average person, and of course Lou Ferrigno was cast for his physique, moreso than his ability to pull faces, I'm sure.

Then came Burton's Batman. Not a bad film (ok, second half was shit, but first half was great) considering all hype. But can you remember the gnashing of teeth at the prospect of Michael Keaton playing Batman? No way, no how could he pull it off. Goddamned scrawny comedian is what he was, not the Dark Knight of Gotham city.

Except he did a good job, and Burton's solution to his physical shortcomings? Just build him the muscles.

Ever since then it seems 'the look' has become a secondary consideration when casting superheroes, with a few exceptions. Robert Downey is the perfect Iron Man, and I think the X Men films tried hard to do the right job, even if they didn't get all the characters right.
Fantastic Four was a casting disaster (Human Torch aside), and I still have nightmares about that retard Mark Steven Johnson who couldn't control himself with Daredevil (and please - Ben Affleck in a padded leather jacket???).

Spiderman I thought was well cast and I have no idea why they're reinventing the franchise so soon. The first Hulk was better than the second for the Hulk himself, but Norton as Banner was much better than Eric Bana. That's one case (the first film) where a complete cgi creation worked well. For all the advances in technology between the first and second movies, the second cgi Hulk was pretty bad I thought. From what I've seen of the trailers, I have very low hopes for Green Lantern, and my jury is still out on Thor and Captain America.

I'd be just as happy if Hollywood put it's superhero money into animation instead. I'd have no problem watching an extended version of that dc game trailer that posted recently, or even good quality anime. No problems at all.

Ok - that's enough or I'll start sounding like the comic book guy on the Simpsons.

Stuntmovie - have you ever worked with Gene Lebell? He's one guy I'd give my brothers left testicle to meet.

[JOHN MATRIX]

topher grace was chosen to play eddie brock(venom).

[galain]

topher grace was chosen to play eddie brock(venom).

Yes - that was complete shit. Uncle Ben, Aunt May, Peter Parker and most of all, J Jonah Jameson, were very well cast I thought.

[Meso_z]

worst "hero" movie ever: DBZ

they fucked up my childhood

Is that Dragonball???!!! 

[stuntmovie]

GALAIN, No, I never had the opportunity to meet Mr Lebell, but I'm sure we have mutual friends who worked in the business.

I googled some of Mr Lebell's photos to see if it would jar my memory but even then I don't recall ever meeting him ,,, BUT my secretary used to 'date' Elvis Presley and I think she had mentioned his name more than once.... (Is that possible?)

Gene probably knew and worked with my best friend, Jack Tyree, who did a lot of work in Hollywood films before he passed away during a cliff-jump shoot while making The Sword and the Sorcerer. (They kept his reconn yell in the scene!) and if I ever did meet Gene it was through his association with Jack.

While we're on this stuntman-person subject I find it interesting that IMDB.com only credits Jack Tyree with one feature film .... Escape from New York; but Jack was actually one of the main stunt guys in Hollywood and appeared in more feature films than I can count on the fingers of my four hands.

Jack had gone to some acting classes with Goldie Hawn and each promised the other that whomever made it in Hollywood would help the other. So Jack ended up working in many of Goldie's movies.

Plus Anthony Quinn was a friend of Jack's so Jack was always involved in one of his projects.

And then (or before then) he worked on a TV series called "The Virginian" and became close friends with the cast and taught them how to scuba dive (Jack was a Recon Marine) in one of the public pools close to Universal.

And while doing that, they decided to form up a group of stunt persons (the ladies were also involved) for various underwater movies that were being planned.

To the best of my recollection, that group eventually became Stunts Unlimited or Stuntmen's Association and they worked the western stuntmen's show at the new Universal Studios park up on the hill above the sound stages where they used to shoot westerns and jungle movies.

That close proximity allowed them to be available for any scenes that required the possibility of getting hurt down on the lot below where all the films were shot.

Jack was an extremely likable guy who was always called upon by various studio executives to solve problems that the studios did not want the public to be aware of. (I've mentioned some of this in earlier postings).

So Jack was one of the guys in Hollywood who worked pretty consistently. One of the movie industry newspapers listed Jack in the top 10% of working personnel within the film industry back then.

Jack was over 6 feet but they liked him so much that he doubled for DOn Adams (Get Smart) who was considerably shorter..... but they had to shoot all those scenes from a distance in an attempt to fool the viewing audience.

I also previously mentioned the story about the stuntpersons gathering together to plan motorcycle and monster films of their own on the weekends with 'barrowed' equipment from the studios, shoot them over a three month period, and then get them somehow distributed to US drive-in theaters as part of the double-feature and throughout the Orient as a main movie.

I sat in one of those 'preproduction meetings' and had the honor of sitting in Errol Flynn's off studio 'bungalow' and meeting his son "Sean" and ten or so other greats within the stuntman profession back then and Gene could have been there also.

And I do recall some of the stunt guys opening a tough and tumble bar somewhere along Venturn Blvd which we used to feel very welcomed in, but I tried to find it recently without success.

From what I hear today, those good old days have long ago passed away and the stunt business is much more different now.

So I have a good feeling that Jack and Gene knew each other when this business was so much different.

Thanks for the kick in my memory banks, Galain.

[dr.chimps]

I sat in one of those 'preproduction meetings' and had the honor of sitting in Errol Flynn's off studio 'bungalow' and meeting his son "Sean" and ten or so other greats within the stuntman profession back then and Gene could have been there also.

Very cool. Love Errol Flynn. He really lived two lives, what with his pre-Hollywood sailing/smuggling days. He was a superb action guy, and he could really act, though no one really gave him credit for it. I'll bet that hurt him, no end. And, stunt, wasn't Sean a photographer who went missing/died in Vietnam?

/and i have no idea as to the bear and her misformed cub, so the answer to your oscar story will have to wait.

[Cableguy]

CABLE, No, I don't think I ever met Rich. The stunt business and those involved has changed immensely since I was involved while in the Corps.

A year or so ago we paid a visit to one of the stunt offices in or near Studio City. It was either Stunts Unlimited or Stuntmen's Association and there were a few stunt-guys sitting around the office when I introduced myself and asked about the old timers who were active in the 60's and the 70's.

They remembered the names but were too darn young to recall meeting any of them and had no idea if they were still around.

I've told a number of stunt stories on this board over the years if you'd care to look them up.

AND,,, the individual photos that I used in an attempt to show Hollywood what Superman or any other super-hero should look like, definitely were not IFBB Pros.

Actually those couple of photos were GetBiggers who gave permission to do so.

Ask Rich if he ever knew or ever heard about JACK TYREE .... fellow Marine and my good friend who died during the shooting of "THE SWORD AND THE SORCERER". Jack was one of the original stuntmen at the Universal Park and was one of the good Hollywood guys whom the studios called when problems arose that needed immediate attention.

Dr Chimps ... No! But I'll be glad to IM ya because you are such an all knowing movie fan. But first you have to ID the movie about the bear and her deformed cub. Name that movie and you get the sordid details. I was supposed to be in that one.

I'll ask Rich about Jack Tyree next time I talk to him. Rich and I started out in cable together actually. He came to LA to go to the Inasanto Acadamy. He's an accomplished martial artist.

Probably his biggest "starring" role was as "Big Daddy Mars", the leader of the zombies in Ghosts Of Mars. He also did a lot of the fight scenes in The Watchmen and Iron Man, as well as many others. He's frequently one of the henchmen that gets killed by the hero, lol. He was in the first fight scene in The Book Of Eli for instance. He gets offed by Denzel, lol...

[Cableguy]

More pix of Rich from 300, GI Joe, Iron Man, and Watchmen.

[stuntmovie]

DOC, Yes Sean was missing while on assignment in Vietnam. I googled that story and will have to find it and post it for you all.

I only met Sean once but he was highly respected in his own rights and also among all the stunt guys.

Funny thing that day when I was at his place a couple of blocks from the studio .... I made myself comfortable in the  bungalow sized (very small) living room while we were all waiting for the other guys to arrive and noticed a bunch of very nice, original paintings on the walls. All appeared to be museum quality and of tremendous value so I got up to take a closer look and Sean walked over and told me that they were originals and used to belong to his dad.

So I asked him who his dad was and he responded, "Errol Flynn. This was his place where he hung out between takes on the Universal lot."

Then we gathered in the kitchen and discussed the new motorcycle movie that they were planning to make.

Most of that discussion went like this:

Where's the script?
Can you get some blood this weekend?
Who's bringing the camera?
How much raw footage will we have?
Who's coming and how many bikes?
What's the location?
etc.

And an hour later we were all out of there gathering stuff for that weekend's shoot. Off lot film-making was pretty basic back then. And on rare occasions it's till the same today.

CABLE, Thanks again. I gotta mention that Jack was one of the initial and original apes in the first Planet of the Apes movie. He gave me a call a few times while he was sitting in the make-up chair and if I recall correctly, it took about 6 hours to convert him to an ape. (Could have been 8.)

Funny thing but many years later I get a call from my nephew who was sitting in the make up department while he was also getting converted to be an ape in the Mark Wahlberg version of that series.

That very next day I sat in that same department watching that ape conversion process for his big fight scene with Wahlberg while a major pro bodybuilder was in the adjacent chair going through the same process.

Thanks for those last photos. 300 was one of my favorite movies that year and was the beginning of Legendary Studios if I recall correctly. Watch for 'Sucker Punch' coming out soon.

Dr Chimps ... Name that pro in the Planet of the Apes make-up chair and I'll send ya that Oscar story!

BENCH ... Yea, I also loved Spartacus: Blood and Sand and it's gonna be interesting to see how this new actor fills his sandals. I sincerely hope that Andy Whitfield has a complete recovery.

[Cableguy]

You're welcome man. I would post more pics of Rich, but they're o>er the limit sizewise for this forum, and I can't size them down on my work laptop.

I agree about Spartacus as well. Hope Andy is able to get back in the role.

I'm also anticipating Game Of Thrones coming to HBO in April. The Song Of Ice And Fire series by George RR Martin is one of my fa>orite fantasy series to date. I'm really hoping they do a decent job with that!

[dr.chimps]

Dr Chimps ... Name that pro in the Planet of the Apes make-up chair and I'll send ya that Oscar story!

Well, I only know two (modern) guys who do that kind of prosthetic makeup: Stan Winston (now dead) and Rick Baker. If it's not one of those two, I guess I'll have to keep waiting.  

[dr.chimps]

You're welcome man. I would pist more pics of Rich, but they're o>er the limit sizewise for this forum, and I can't size them down on my work laptop.

I agree about Spartacus as well. Hope Andy is able to get back in the role.

I'm also anticipating Game Of Thrones coming to HBO in April. The Song Of Ice And Fire series by George RR Martin is one of my fa>orite fantasy series to date. I'm really hoping they do a decent job with that!

I'm not really a fantasy guy, but I have that series (still unfinished!) in signed 1sts, so I'm probably gonna tune in and watch it.

/i've only read the first book, a game of thrones. it was pretty good. 

[Cableguy]

I hope George RR Martin li>es long enough to finish the series, lol. He's done 4 books of a projected 6 so far, and it takes him fore>er to finish one. All I can say about this series is don't get too attached to any characters. GRRM is not afraid to do the unthinkable!

[stuntmovie]

DOC! Nooooo! I don't mean the actual make-up artist. What I meant to ask you was ..

Who was the professional body builder who was sitting in that make-up chair being made up to play the part of an ape in that movie?

That one should be easy for ya.

I'll give you a clue late on it you need one.

And I actually forget if it was the Baker crew or the Winston crew who worked on that version of Planet and it's not specified in IMDB for some unknown reason.

CABLE, I'm an avid reader but I have never heard of "Game of Thrones". I assume it is one of the books within the George RR Martin series and will look for it on my next visit to the bookstore on on Amazon. Thanks for the heads up on that HBO series as I enjoy reading a book first and then seeing how Hollywood presents it on screen.

New subject ... I googled my good friend Jack and the attached photo popped up. That is most likely a photo of Jack's first wedding that was held in the new 'tank' at Universal Studios. I was asked to be Best Man in his wedding but was off someplace in a foreign country and could not make it.

Jack's first wife was a stunt-lady who worked on various projects with him at Universal and if you look closely at this photograph you may notice that Jack's wet suit was made to look like a formal tuxedo. The last time I was on the lot, that tank was still there but completely empty.

Good days back then!

[dr.chimps]

DOC! Nooooo! I don't mean the actual make-up artist. What I meant to ask you was ..

Who was the professional body builder who was sitting in that make-up chair being made up to play the part of an ape in that movie?

That one should be easy for ya.

I'll give you a clue late on it you need one.

And I actually forget if it was the Baker crew or the Winston crew who worked on that version of Planet and it's not specified in IMDB for some unknown reason.

CABLE, I'm an avid reader but I have never heard of "Game of Thrones". I assume it is one of the books within the George RR Martin series and will look for it on my next visit to the bookstore on on Amazon. Thanks for the heads up on that HBO series as I enjoy reading a book first and then seeing how Hollywood presents it on screen.

New subject ... I googled my good friend Jack and the attached photo popped up. That is most likely a photo of Jack's first wedding that was held in the new 'tank' at Universal Studios. I was asked to be Best Man in his wedding but was off someplace in a foreign country and could not make it.

Jack's first wife was a stunt-lady who worked on various projects with him at Universal and if you look closely at this photograph you may notice that Jack's wet suit was made to look like a formal tuxedo. The last time I was on the lot, that tank was still there but completely empty.

Good days back then!

Quincy Taylor! And Michael Clarke Duncan is no slouch in the size department, either. 

[stuntmovie]

Right, Doc! Quincy Taylor!

That was the first time I met Quincy and the scenes shot that day were shot on location in Vasquez Rock a 45 minute drive north of Los Angeles where the rocks shoot out from the earth at 45 degree angles due to earthquake movements.

Give me time and I'll send you the Oscar Story in complete detail.

Stand by to stand by.

[Cableguy]

DOC! Nooooo! I don't mean the actual make-up artist. What I meant to ask you was ..

Who was the professional body builder who was sitting in that make-up chair being made up to play the part of an ape in that movie?

That one should be easy for ya.

I'll give you a clue late on it you need one.

And I actually forget if it was the Baker crew or the Winston crew who worked on that version of Planet and it's not specified in IMDB for some unknown reason.

CABLE, I'm an avid reader but I have never heard of "Game of Thrones". I assume it is one of the books within the George RR Martin series and will look for it on my next visit to the bookstore on on Amazon. Thanks for the heads up on that HBO series as I enjoy reading a book first and then seeing how Hollywood presents it on screen.

New subject ... I googled my good friend Jack and the attached photo popped up. That is most likely a photo of Jack's first wedding that was held in the new 'tank' at Universal Studios. I was asked to be Best Man in his wedding but was off someplace in a foreign country and could not make it.

Jack's first wife was a stunt-lady who worked on various projects with him at Universal and if you look closely at this photograph you may notice that Jack's wet suit was made to look like a formal tuxedo. The last time I was on the lot, that tank was still there but completely empty.

Good days back then!

First book in the series. 4 of 6 done so far. They are all long, 800-1,000 pages. Well written and complex, with many characters and plotlines. He manages to somehow hold it all together quite well. E>en the minor characters ha>e substance. Each chapter is told from the perspecti>e of one of the characters. The "good guys" aren't really good, and the "bad guys" aren't really bad...a lot of gray areas, just like real life. And he's not afraid to kill off ANY characters, so be prepared...

[stuntmovie]

Thanks. Cable, will look for it next trip to  Borders.

Here's the photo I mentioned above but forgot to attach.....

[Cableguy]

Thanks. Cable, will look for it next trip to  Borders.

Here's the photo I mentioned above but forgot to attach.....

Cool stuff...

[OneMoreRep]

There was once a time where Dean Cain portrayed the role of Superman.



"1"

[HTexan]

Guess it is hard to find huge dudes that can act?

[DK II]

Guess it is hard to find huge dudes that can act?

This.

The "huge" guys in Holywood that can act AND the are still considered aetstetic are guys like McConnaughey, Daniel Craig and Chris Evans. 

[stuntmovie]

DK, here's an update regarding the list of movie and TV actors who are given first consideration by casting agents when they are searching for 'muscle' for leading roles in major motion pictures.

Most important is that each of them are represented by "AGENTS" who are thoroughly familiar with the business.

This list definitely not all inclusive but it's pretty damn accurate.

Friends who are actively engaged in the business of movie making state that Hollywood is always looking for guys who are in great shape but for the most part they only work with accredited agencies, so a good Hollywood agent is more important than your physical condition until you get your foot in the agency doorway.

I sure don't agree with this list but I seldom agree with casting agents anyway...

Hollywood’s idea of muscular actors:

Stallone
Van Damme
Christian Bale
Ryan Reynolds
Wesley Snipes
Hugh Jackman
Arnold
John Cena
Dwayne Johnson
Matthew MConaughey
Daniel Craig
Robert Downey Jr.
Justin Hartley
Channing Tatum
Will Smith
Josh Hopkins
Hulk Hoga
Bill Goldberg
LL Cool J
Cam Gigandet
Andy Whitfield
Taylor Lautner
Gerard Butler
Jason Statham
Michael Jai White
Chris Evans
Dolph Lundgren
Jake Gyllenhaal
Brad Pitt
Edward Norton
Tyrese Gibson
Mickey Rourke
Terry Crews
Matt Damon
Kellan Lutz
Jamie Foxx
Paul Walker
Dennius Quaid
James Franco
Mark Wahlberg
Joe Manganiello
Ryan Kwanten
Vin Diesel
Chris Carmak
Ryan Phillipe
Tyson Beckford
Benjamin McKenzie
Ben Affleck
Mario Lopez
Rob Pattison

[DK II]

DK, here's an update regarding the list of movie and TV actors who are given first consideration by casting agents when they are searching for 'muscle' for leading roles in major motion pictures.

Most important is that each of them are represented by "AGENTS" who are thoroughly familiar with the business.

This list definitely not all inclusive but it's pretty damn accurate.

Friends who are actively engaged in the business of movie making state that Hollywood is always looking for guys who are in great shape but for the most part they only work with accredited agencies, so a good Hollywood agent is more important than your physical condition until you get your foot in the agency doorway.

I sure don't agree with this list but I seldom agree with casting agents anyway...

Hollywood’s idea of muscular actors:

Stallone
Van Damme
Christian Bale
Ryan Reynolds
Wesley Snipes
Hugh Jackman
Arnold
John Cena
Dwayne Johnson
Matthew MConaughey
Daniel Craig
Robert Downey Jr.
Justin Hartley
Channing Tatum
Will Smith
Josh Hopkins
Hulk Hoga
Bill Goldberg
LL Cool J
Cam Gigandet
Andy Whitfield
Taylor Lautner
Gerard Butler
Jason Statham
Michael Jai White
Chris Evans
Dolph Lundgren
Jake Gyllenhaal
Brad Pitt
Edward Norton
Tyrese Gibson
Mickey Rourke
Terry Crews
Matt Damon
Kellan Lutz
Jamie Foxx
Paul Walker
Dennius Quaid
James Franco
Mark Wahlberg
Joe Manganiello
Ryan Kwanten
Vin Diesel
Chris Carmak
Ryan Phillipe
Tyson Beckford
Benjamin McKenzie
Ben Affleck
Mario Lopez
Rob Pattison

Interesting list, although some can be debated. I don't see what Ben Affleck does on this list, but of all the names that say something to me i thikn they have all been in shape at some point or the other.

Maybe i should get a Hollywood agent just for fun, maybe they could consider me for a real life "Donkey Kong" movie.