Author Topic: Bynum for Carmelo?  (Read 2992 times)

Dos Equis

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Bynum for Carmelo?
« on: February 08, 2011, 06:09:59 PM »
Do it Mitch!   :)

UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 07:55:12 AM »
How in the world is that a straight up trade??? ??? ??? ???


Despite his youth and possible upside, Bynum is extremely injury prone. Carmelo is 26 years old with a career 26 points a game average.


Are you sure it's not Bynum and an extra player/draft choice?

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2011, 01:27:34 PM »
Looks like the Lakers are trying to match up against the Heat and not the Celtics with a move like this. Is the fix in?

UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 03:17:58 PM »
The Heat WILL NOT beat the Celtics in the playoffs.


Ain't happening. Boston has too many big men for the Heat. The big three will be playing big minutes come playoff time.

Option D

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2011, 03:22:12 PM »
The Heat WILL NOT beat the Celtics in the playoffs.


Ain't happening. Boston has too many big men for the Heat. The big three will be playing big minutes come playoff time.

my friend is like "This is some bullshit.. the fuckin lakers always pull shit like this off.. remember Gasol for Kwame brown..fuckin lakers.. the nba needs to go to 6 teams..

Earl1972

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 03:38:35 PM »
if that trade happens, it a perfect example of how the rich get richer and the poor remain poor and dumb

E
E

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 04:05:44 PM »
just another example of a Tar Heel running the show, fellas.  Kupchak = great

Dos Equis

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 01:05:44 PM »
How in the world is that a straight up trade??? ??? ??? ???


Despite his youth and possible upside, Bynum is extremely injury prone. Carmelo is 26 years old with a career 26 points a game average.


Are you sure it's not Bynum and an extra player/draft choice?

The salaries apparently match.  Bynum is one of a handful of true legit NBA centers.  Has a ton of upside.  Pretty even trade.  Lots of risk with Bynum, but great reward if he stays healthy.  I'm sure there would probably be a couple draft picks involved and maybe an exchange of another player or two. 

Keep in mind Denver gets nothing if they don't trade him and he walks at the end of the season. 

UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2011, 07:26:34 AM »
The salaries apparently match.  Bynum is one of a handful of true legit NBA centers.  Has a ton of upside.  Pretty even trade.  Lots of risk with Bynum, but great reward if he stays healthy.  I'm sure there would probably be a couple draft picks involved and maybe an exchange of another player or two.  

Keep in mind Denver gets nothing if they don't trade him and he walks at the end of the season.  

Not an even trade. Not straight up, sorry to disagree. Bynum looks like he'll have knee problems the rest of his career. Just too injury prone.

Anyway, It would be a bad trade for the Lakers. They don't need Carmelo Anthony. They need to get younger in the backcourt, if anything. The Lakers are not a fast break team. Their team strength is their size advantage, especially in the playoffs.

The Lakers are fine, they can win another title with the team they have. They're just anxious for the playoffs and are just in cruise mode. 82 games is a long season. They are also coming off two impressive road wins against the Celtics and Knicks.

Kobe is still a beast, too. He's evolving into the type of player Jordan was as he entered his mid 30's. Not as quick as he was in his prime  but terrific footwork creating his own shot.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2011, 03:32:11 PM »
Not an even trade. Not straight up, sorry to disagree. Bynum looks like he'll have knee problems the rest of his career. Just too injury prone.

Anyway, It would be a bad trade for the Lakers. They don't need Carmelo Anthony. They need to get younger in the backcourt, if anything. The Lakers are not a fast break team. Their team strength is their size advantage, especially in the playoffs.

The Lakers are fine, they can win another title with the team they have. They're just anxious for the playoffs and are just in cruise mode. 82 games is a long season. They are also coming off two impressive road wins against the Celtics and Knicks.

Kobe is still a beast, too. He's evolving into the type of player Jordan was as he entered his mid 30's. Not as quick as he was in his prime  but terrific footwork creating his own shot.

Can't really argue with you.  A healthy Bynum is equal to or greater than Carmelo, but he hasn't really been able to stay healthy.  Keep in mind when evaluating a potential trade that Denver gets nothing if they don't trade Carmelo.   

L.A.'s backcourt isn't the problem.  They need a shooter (as usual) and someone who can rebound and play defense off the bench.  Odom is great on the boards, but they're missing Barnes and Ratliff.   

I agree they are in cruise control.  Sort of frustrating for a fan (like me). 

Kobe has definitely changed his game this year.  He lost a step this season.  He has been playing with his back to the basket more than I've ever seen before.  He rarely takes people off the dribble.  Not sure if he's just too slow, too tired, or saving himself for the playoffs.  But you're right that he's still a beast. 

UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 03:38:42 PM »
Can't really argue with you.  A healthy Bynum is equal to or greater than Carmelo, but he hasn't really been able to stay healthy.  Keep in mind when evaluating a potential trade that Denver gets nothing if they don't trade Carmelo.  

L.A.'s backcourt isn't the problem.  They need a shooter (as usual) and someone who can rebound and play defense off the bench.  Odom is great on the boards, but they're missing Barnes and Ratliff.    

I agree they are in cruise control.  Sort of frustrating for a fan (like me).  

Kobe has definitely changed his game this year.  He lost a step this season.  He has been playing with his back to the basket more than I've ever seen before.  He rarely takes people off the dribble.  Not sure if he's just too slow, too tired, or saving himself for the playoffs.  But you're right that he's still a beast.  

He's 32 years old so he's obviously lost some explosiveness to the basket. But when Jordan started to slow down, he worked on all the other little things to supplement his overall game. He studied more film, worked on his post game, improved his footwork. I'm sure Kobe has taken that same approach as he enters the back nine of his career.

Kobe's still averaging 25 pts+ a game so that drop-off in his play is still pretty slight. Not sure If I agree that he rarely takes people off the dribble anymore. He's still driving to the basket agressively and drawing fouls as far as I can see.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2011, 03:46:03 PM »
He's 32 years old so he's obviously lost some explosiveness to the basket. But when Jordan started to slow down, he worked on all the other little things to supplement his overall game. He studied more film, worked on his post game, improved his footwork. I'm sure Kobe has taken that same approach as he enters the back nine of his career.

Kobe's still averaging 25 pts+ a game so that drop-off in his play is still pretty slight. Not sure If I agree that he rarely takes people off the dribble anymore. He's still driving to the basket agressively and drawing fouls as far as I can see.

Thirty-two isn't old.  It's the amount of games he has played, given the playoffs, international play, his durability (i.e., not missing games), and the fact he has been in the league since he was 18. 

He doesn't go to the hole nearly as much this season as he has in the past.  I've noticed a big difference.  I haven't seen as many Laker games this season as in years past, but I still watch most of their games. 

The Showstoppa

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2011, 12:08:37 PM »
Carmelo to the Nets.....lame.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2011, 04:58:38 PM »

mass 04

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2011, 09:41:32 AM »
The Knicks are retards if they don't trade for him. You don't get one of the top 5 scorers in the league because you won't give up Ray Felton and Gallinari?

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2011, 10:39:11 AM »
Y

mass 04

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2011, 10:49:28 AM »

CalvinH

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2011, 07:00:47 AM »
The Knicks are retards if they don't trade for him. You don't get one of the top 5 scorers in the league because you won't give up Ray Felton and Gallinari?



Done deal.

UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2011, 07:29:23 AM »
Good. Now we can kill this lame thread and it's title.

Carmelo was never going to the Lakers in the first place.

CalvinH

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2011, 09:26:41 AM »
Good. Now we can kill this lame thread and it's title.

Carmelo was never going to the Lakers in the first place.


I an't change the thread title :-\

Dos Equis

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Re: Bynum for Carmelo?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 05:10:47 PM »
Good. Now we can kill this lame thread and it's title.

Carmelo was never going to the Lakers in the first place.

Whatever.  It was a legitimate story.  Definitely a long-shot, but they had discussions. 

Pincus: Why the Lakers Should Get Melo and Why They Won't

By: Eric Pincus   Last Updated: 2/9/11 11:22 AM ET | 19110 times read

The possibility of the Lakers trading Andrew Bynum to the Denver Nuggets for Carmelo Anthony set the NBA ablaze on Tuesday.

Depending on perspective, it might be a tough call.

For the Lakers, it doesn't seem to be.  They've been committed to Andrew Bynum since they drafted him at 17 years of age and that doesn't appear to have wavered.

Never mind that he's had knee problems year after year after year (dating back to high school).

Despite the rumors, buzz and excitement, the Lakers do not appear inclined to make a Bynum/Melo swap.

Perhaps there's something to be said for keeping the core together.  This is a team that won back-to-back titles and three straight Western Conference championships.

The length of Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Bynum make the Lakers a very difficult team to deal with.

Then again, if Andrew isn't the idealized version of the young, next great Laker center but instead a guy always battling knee trouble, then the championship window may have already closed for LA.

It's not April.  It's not May.  It's not June, but the Lakers have simply not impressed this year against the league's best.

If the Lakers can get past the San Antonio Spurs without home court advantage and return to the NBA Finals for the fourth straight season, they still have a chance to catch the Boston Celtics in the standings with a win over Boston this week and a strong finish.

Without home court, are the Lakers better than they were last year?  The Celtics certainly seem to be.

There's something to be said for continuity and sticking with what has proven to work.  It's another thing holding on too long and missing that moment when the window closed.

The latter may be the case here.

Bynum recently sat a game with a bone bruise (knee of course).  The Lakers are considered to be old and slow but that's because their "youth" is represented by the 23-year old plodding up and down the court in the knee brace.

Boston is dealing with age too but their point guard is a 25-year old phenom averaging 12.4 assists a game.

Carmelo Anthony is one of the top scorers in the league at just 26 years of age.

He's never played in fewer than 65 games in a season.  The most Bynum has played in is 65, except for his second year when, in a smaller role, he got through all 82 (53 starts).

Anthony is the kind of player that coaches have to scheme against defensively every night.  The Lakers have two players like that currently in Kobe Bryant and Gasol.

When Bynum is at full strength he makes the Lakers a special team.

Even then, teams are often willing to let players like Lamar Odom, Ron Artest and even Derek Fisher take jump shots over letting Bryant and/or Gasol dominate.

Take out the Bynum edge and it can very quickly turn into a no-defense clank-fest for the Lakers.

Without a doubt, Bynum makes Gasol's game better by just giving Pau even 20 minutes away from banging against opposing centers.

Coach Phil Jackson rarely relies on Andrew to finish games, turning instead to Odom with Gasol.  The argument is that Pau has more energy and strength because earlier in the game Drew helped to wear down the middle.

The formula has worked in the past, even with Bynum hobbled.

This is the core of the issue.  If the Lakers believe that he will get stronger and close enough to full strength throughout the season, all the way to another successful Finals run, then keeping him makes a lot of sense.

If the prospect of that puts a pit in the team's stomach, then they simply need to go a different route.

If it's no Bynum, no ring . . . then they may already be in possession of no Bynum.

Carmelo Anthony would represent the best value return in what's available in today's trade market.

The Nuggets initially didn't even want Andrew but their slow play of the Melo saga has diminished their return to the point that the Bynum risk may be preferable to the alternatives.

While teams this postseason won't even bother guarding Artest, Melo in his place would make the Lakers just too much to defend.  Send extra bodies to help on Bryant and Gasol?  Anthony is going to get the ball on the weak side and attack the post against single coverage.

Defensively LA would lose length and shot-blocking but gain mobility with a Gasol, Odom and Anthony front court.  The team would still have good size and length but certainly that's a step down without the 7'0" Bynum in the middle.

In Gasol and Odom, the Lakers may have the most skilled pair but there's a tangible lack in power and toughness.

Of course that toughness with Bynum assumes he's healthy, otherwise the team has the same exact flaws - just no Melo.

The Lakers would certainly need to add size to make up for losing Andrew.  Whether that's pieces from Denver to make a deal go through like Sheldon Williams and/or Chris Andersen or someone General Manager Mitch Kupchak picks up separately, LA might be able to find a suitable role player up front.

Robin Lopez of the Phoenix Suns is reportedly available.  So is Hasheem Thabeet.  Kwame Brown certainly knows the triangle offense.  Other names might include Nazr Mohammed, Ben Wallace, Brad Miller, Jeff Foster, DJ Mbenga and Hilton Armstrong.

Nene of the Nuggets would be ideal but given his salary, almost unattainable without the Lakers finding a taker for someone like Artest, Walton or the like (pieces unappealing to Denver).  The Lakers would not be looking to move Odom.

Some are obviously better than others but skill level, at least offensively, wouldn't be the priority.

That's not to say it'd be easy for Kupchak to pick up a big man, but it's almost impossible to land a player like Melo.  A role playing center who can defend but doesn't need to score much at all is far simplier to find by comparison.

Whether or not the Lakers understand that the risk of keeping Bynum may be greater than making the play for Melo, here's something they are certain to get . . . the economics of a deal.

Assuming Anthony is locked in for next season at $18.6 million and extends his contract for at least $65 million (potentially reduced under the eventually Collective Bargaining Agreement or CBA), the Lakers would be on hook to just three players for $62.5 million (Bryant, Gasol and Anthony).

The Lakers would still need to fill 10 roster spots, many of which are occupied by players like Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Luke Walton, Steven Blake and Derek Fisher.

The following season the three stars would get $67 million and then $72.2 in the next.

Looking at the team's existing payroll structure, they're currently set to pay about $93.4 million pre-tax on 12 players next season.  These are rough projections, assuming that Shannon Brown and Matt Barnes do not opt out, even though both probably will.

It's understandable why the Lakers balk at the figures.

LA has a built-in escape clause in their current payroll structure.  In the summer of 2012, when players like Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Deron Williams can become free agents, LA has two valuable contracts to use as trade bait.

Bynum's final year of $16.1 million is not guaranteed and only $2.4 million of Lamar Odom's salary is locked in.  Both can be cut before the 2012/13 season.

Suppose that one of the 2012 stars tries to force a midseason trade next year (if there is a next year, given the prospective lock-out), the Lakers would functionally have $23.8 million in expiring contracts to send out in Bynum and Odom (save the extra $2.4 for Lamar).

The Lakers can and will probably choose to wait and let Bynum prove himself.  If he does get hurt again, his contract is still valuable as an expiring although he'd lose his on-the-court value.

The difficulty here is that the CBA may dramatically change the landscape with terms like hard cap, franchise player tag and increased revenue sharing bandied about.  There's no true way to project to 2012, which is why the Lakers may best be served to land their future star now instead of later.

Team owner Dr. Jerry Buss can opt to let Bynum and Odom go in order to reduce payroll, which could prove to be necessary under a new CBA should it provide drastic luxury tax/revenue sharing increases.

If the Lakers did invest in a max player for the 2012 season, the team's salary is likely to jump right back into the stratosphere.

With Melo now, the summer of 2012 no longer has an escape clause with $98.1 million committed to eight players unless the team cuts Odom to save $5.1 million, pre-tax.

That's a lot of money for the Lakers to commit to given the CBA uncertainty.  It's possibly the greatest reason why the Lakers pass on Anthony.

Bynum is the lesser risk economically because if he is damaged goods, then the team will head towards a 2012 rebuild.

Then again, Melo could be the star to bridge the gap and carry on the championship tradition as Bryant embraces basketball life in the mid-30's.

Other Options

The Lakers can keep Bynum and try to improve the team's chances by making a separate midseason trade.

LA can take in up to $5.575 million in salary via the Sasha Vujacic trade exception.  They can look to trade pieces like Ron Artest or Shannon Brown.

Brown has an implicit no-trade clause, which means the Lakers would need his permission.  Shannon may be open to playing for another team that would more readily make a long-term financial commitment to him.

OJ Mayo is on the block but given the strong play from Sam Young and recently Tony Allen, do the Memphis Grizzlies look at Brown as an upgrade?

One option might be an Artest/Brown swap for Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace.  Both players have two additional years at about $2.7-$4.2 million more than Artest but Ron has the additional year on his deal.

Jackson is more versatile offensively with a better outside shot but Wallace may be the superior defender.  Both are two-way players who would be asked to fill Artest's role on the perimeter.

The Lakers have long held interest in Tayshaun Prince but a deal would be tricky unless the Pistons take on a player like Artest or Walton - or if a multi-team deal were fashioned.

Dealing Bynum for Melo may not be the only choice for Kupchak but it may still be the best choice.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18718