Author Topic: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...  (Read 14684 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2011, 12:31:29 PM »
Salary as a DSNY Sanitation Worker starts at $31,200, and can be increased to a maximum of $67,141 after 5 years of service


I reviewed the application myself three weeks ago. 

blacken700

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2011, 12:38:49 PM »
i'm not saying he didn't make that much, but he must have worked alot of overtime,if theirs trash that has to go and he can work the overtime to move it to you have a problem with him doing it. or do we let it pile up on the streets, and you will be the first to complain

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2011, 12:40:47 PM »
i'm not saying he didn't make that much, but he must have worked alot of overtime,if theirs trash that has to go and he can work the overtime to move it to you have a problem with him doing it. or do we let it pile up on the streets, and you will be the first to complain

They play tons of games w the OT that if you knew about would make even you become a Teabagger.   

tonymctones

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #78 on: March 10, 2011, 04:21:18 PM »
Because it's a bad deal. Benefits are major deciding factors for anyone considering a new job, whether they are in a union or not. Most of these ridiculous numbers you hear about how overpaid the Wi. faculty is are tied to exaggerations of their benefits.  Of course giving up the right to negotiate benefits and only being able to negotiate wages would be a huge issue, especially if one of the provisions of the bill is tying potential wage increases to the CPI. The significance is compounded when you take into account the fact that the unions in question were operating in good faith, while Walker was operating under fraudulent motives.

by exagerated do you mean not contributing to health care or retirement? I think thats a pretty sweet deal...

it allows for raises beyond the inflation rate...it doesnt cap it at inflation it just mandates a public vote on raises beyond inflation...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2011, 05:19:16 PM »
Al :  were the dems operating in good faith when they passed obamacare? 

Primemuscle

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2011, 12:22:21 AM »
All I can say that it is about time - Wisconsin's governor is doing what millions want him to do, as are other states.

So do you think Walker and his band of thieves will survive the recall which is already under way?

grab an umbrella

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2011, 12:52:35 AM »
So do you think Walker and his band of thieves will survive the recall which is already under way?


Out of curiousity how are they thieves?

Primemuscle

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2011, 01:24:14 AM »
Out of curiousity how are they thieves?

Oh let's see, they voted in the middle of the night using false premises. They violated Wisconsin's open public meeting laws. They locked out any opposition and dissenting opinions. The goal wasn't to say money as they claim....in fact no money has been saved....it was to bust the unions. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2011, 06:36:57 AM »
Sounds just like how obamacare was passed. 

Now deal w it.  Payback is a bitch.

blacken700

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2011, 07:29:13 AM »
Sounds just like how obamacare was passed.  

Now deal w it.  Payback is a bitch.

i'll go for that, no more from you on healthcare ;D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2011, 08:12:02 AM »
What Public Sector Employees Don’t Realize or Appreciate
Mar 08 2011
Filed In: Uncategorized, Voices of NYS Taxpayers
by: Brian Sampson

http://blog.unshackleupstate.com/2011/03/what-public-sector-employees-dont-realize-or-appreciate



Thought I’d share this email from an Unshackle Upstate supporter, who offers his real-life perspective on the debate over public vs. private sector employee compensation.

This is from Dave S. We thank him for sharing his story, and invite you to do the same. 

“I read Steve Sink’s article in the business section of the Sunday Rochester Democrat and Chronicle, in which you were mentioned, regarding the potential for Albany to become the next Madison, Wisc.
 
One item of interest in the article, and the reason that I am writing to you now, was the point about how the recent recession has resulted in an imbalance of public vs. private sector pay and benefits.  The recession resulted in loss of jobs and salary cuts that few, if any, in the public sector experienced.

I thought about this, and realized that there is another key point that needs to be made clear to all regarding this growing imbalance.  As bad and as long as this recession has been, it still is only a “point” on a business cycle.  The overlooked, and larger cause of imbalance has been and continues to be a trend – globalization!
 
Although it is a favorite vote winning topic for many politicians, America continues to lose private sector jobs to more cost competitive countries.  The corporations are made out to be the bad guys, but the fact of the matter is that corporations, like any consumer, are obligated to get the most value for their investment dollars.  We in the private sector may not like losing our jobs, but if we truly believe in the benefits of free market economies, we ultimately cannot object.
 
I myself just recently lost my job of 26 years, because the corporation decided to move its development operation to India.  This was not a recession related decision, but due to the recession, the timing could not have been worse.

I was fortunate to find a job that I enjoy, however, even a small percentage of the cut in salary and benefits that I experienced would probably have the overly compensated public sector employee protesting in the streets (while continuing to be paid for the job they aren’t doing).
 
The public sector is immune to globalization.

We can’t outsource our teachers, highway department, police, or other public workers to China or India.  They are fortunate, but the fact that they cannot even comprehend how this is straining the tax base, the people who provide their paycheck, is truly galling.

I watched 60 Minutes a few weeks back, as a teacher confronted the governor of New Jersey and his proposed budget cuts, saying “you are not compensating me for my education!”  All I could think is, what an idiot.  Doesn’t this teacher realize that thousands of engineers with advanced degrees would be told that they would no longer be compensated for any education, as they lost their jobs to those overseas who could do it for less?  Perhaps she does, but frankly, doesn’t give a damn!”



________________________ _______

QFT - public employees complaining need to SSSTTTFFFUUU and drop dead.   If they are unhappy with their situation - QUIT!   Get a real job and compete in the private sector. 

99% of these lazy leeches know they would not last a week before begging for their old jobs back where at best they give 4-5 hours a day of "work".

240 is Back

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2011, 08:31:38 AM »
keanu reaves drove a bus in Speed... he made way more than $160,000 for his efforts.



So the bar is set high for bus drivers, actually.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2011, 08:34:09 AM »
Read this an you will understand why I consider 99% of public workers no different than pick pockets, thieves, mini-maddoffs, and criminals, leeches, parasites, and overpaid, underworked slobs in need of pink slips. 


________________________ ________________________ ______




Expense-report fraud still smoldering in firefighters union
e-mail print Dec. 12, 2010 |(84) Comments



As individuals tasked with saving lives, firefighters must be brave and honest.

That's the ideal.

But it has not been the practice at the state firefighters union.

For at least seven years, leaders of the Professional Firefighters of Wisconsin filed fraudulent expense reports so they could be reimbursed for donations they made to the union's federal political action committee.

Records indicate that 11 past and current Executive Board members submitted expense vouchers for fictional meetings between 2002 and 2008, collecting more than $17,000 in mileage and per diems as a result.

The money from the phantom meetings covered the amount those board members had given to the International Association of Firefighters PAC, commonly called FirePac.

During that seven-year span, FirePac gave tens of thousands of dollars to Wisconsin politicians, primarily Democratic members of Congress. In 2006, for instance, the federal firefighters PAC contributed at least $5,000 each to U.S. Reps. Tammy Baldwin, Ron Kind, Dave Obey and Steve Kagen, all Democrats. Two Republican representatives received smaller sums.

A special committee set up by the state union investigated the expense voucher controversy and unanimously concluded in June: "The reimbursement practice was illegal and placed the PFFW in jeopardy of financial liability and the cost of legal defense."

After that, the 11 board members agreed to reimburse the union $17,146. The union also ordered an audit of its books and set up a new committee to monitor the organization's spending and adherence to state and federal campaign laws.

But here is what the union didn't do:

The investigatory committee didn't report its findings in June to federal or state election officials or other authorities. Five union officials involved in the expense voucher scheme haven't stepped down from the Executive Board. And the issue was not debated openly at the union's summer convention.

Mike Woodzicka, president of the Wisconsin firefighters union, issued a statement suggesting the issue is resolved. He said the union's board acted quickly after receiving the initial complaint, concluding that "certain practices were inappropriate."

"The remedy has been implemented," Woodzicka said in the statement. "We are confident that the PFFW is in compliance with campaign finance law."

Woodzicka has declined to answer detailed questions about the matter since late October.

Some in the union are not happy that the board appears to be trying to keep the lid on a potential scandal.

Chris Bell, president of the Eau Claire Firefighters Local 487, called for the resignations of the five current board members who collected fraudulent expense reimbursements. The most paid back by any board member was $3,000.

"The actions of these individuals damage the credibility of all firefighters, not just those within Wisconsin," Bell said. "Further stonewalling of this issue will prove to be equally as damaging as the actions themselves."

Bell also urged union leaders to report what happened to the Federal Elections Commission. In fact, sources say, the union just recently began the process of notifying the FEC.

An FEC spokeswoman, Judith Ingram, declined to comment on the specific case. But she pointed to a federal law that prohibits someone from funneling money from another group or individual to a federal candidate or committee without disclosing the true source of the funds at the time of the campaign donation.

An assistant law professor at Marquette University said the reimbursement scheme is a clear violation.

"It is illegal, and people have been prosecuted for it under the federal election laws," said Rick Esenberg, who teaches campaign finance law and runs a politically conservative blog. "There are really two potential criminal problems here - violations of federal election law and fraud on the union. I am really surprised the union was so forgiving."

Bell is not alone in his frustration with the union's top leaders.

"There are issues of it that are unresolved," said Chad Bronkhorst, president of the Green Bay Professional Fire Fighters Local 141. "Even at convention, it never got discussion on the floor. When discussion was brought up, it was ruled out of order."

Apparently, that wasn't the first time that debate on this issue has been squelched.

One former Executive Board member said she first alerted her colleagues to the possible ethical consequences of their actions several years ago.

"I was new to the Executive Board, and I brought up my concerns at that time," said Ann Peggs, a Green Bay Fire Department official who left the board in 2007. "Really, nobody else on the board at that meeting supported my concerns at all. It was explained to me that this is the way it was done."

Then the issue surfaced publicly at last year's state union convention, according to a memo provided April 15 to the union's five caucus chairs by the four-member committee that investigated the matter.

According to that memo, someone made the remark at the 2009 convention that one Executive Board member, Pat Kilbane of Janesville, would get reimbursed by the state union for his FirePac donations. Board members can donate to the FirePac instead of paying the registration fee when attending the national union's annual legislative conference.

The comment at the convention caught the attention of Joe Conway, a Madison firefighter who is the regional vice president for the federal firefighters union.

According to the April 15 memo, Conway began looking into the matter. The memo said Kilbane disclosed that he was directed to submit vouchers for fictional meetings by Rick Gale, the former union president. It also came to light that Kilbane wasn't the only one doing this.

Gale, who didn't return calls, stepped down as union president in 2008 after using a racial slur against President Barack Obama. Gale reimbursed the union $1,900 earlier this year, while Kilbane gave back $354.

Earlier this year, Conway alerted state union board officials what he had turned up, and in March, they set up the four-member investigatory committee made up of Executive Board members who did not submit fraudulent expense vouchers.

Along with identifying the 11 board members who faked expenses starting in 2002 - the records do not go back any further - the special committee found that Woodzicka, the current state union president, quietly stopped the practice when he took over for Gale in 2008.

The investigatory committee recommended the money be repaid but did not call for any resignations.

Mahlon Mitchell, a member of the investigatory committee, said most of the union's local affiliates did not favor forcing the resignations of the board members.

"Our obligation in the union is to follow the law, one, and to follow the will of the majority of our members," Mitchell said.

That prompted Eau Claire firefighter Tony Biasi to file a complaint with the national union against the five sitting Executive Board members who participated in the scheme. Among the five are Woodzicka, who had to reimburse the union $1,100; Troy Haase of Fond du Lac, $1,000; and Brookfield firefighter and Baord Vice President Robert Baird, $3,000.

Just weeks ago, the complaint was tossed by a preliminary review panel set up by the national union. The panel noted that Biasi filed his complaint against just the five current board members, not all 11 individuals caught up in the scheme, saying this suggested a "personal and retaliatory motivation."

Besides, the preliminary panel concluded, "There is no evidence that the charged parties intentionally or knowingly engaged in conduct they knew to be wrong."

Bell, the Eau Claire union boss, said this makes no sense.

How could individuals fill out expense forms for meetings that didn't occur, he asked, and not know this was wrong? In addition, some Executive Board members never participated in the scheme while others did initially and then quit.

The issue is coming to a head, he said, only because the federal union became aware of the fraud by leaders of Wisconsin's firefighters union.

"They only confessed after they were caught," Bell said.

Daniel Bice can be contacted by phone at (414) 224-2135 or by e-mail at


http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/111766149.html#


tu_holmes

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #88 on: March 13, 2011, 10:19:57 AM »
You do realize that when you privatize these things you pay more.

Whenever you create a for profit company to produce non-profit goods, it never works.

Ask the State of Virginia who currently are paying much more for IT services since they created the public / private partnership with Northrop Grumman... NGC came in claiming how they would be able to save the state money... Well, they've spent more money, been less secure, and had more problems than before when it was only public.

Public entities in government are not allowed to make a profit... as such, things must be done at cost.

A company is in it to make money. They will do whatever it takes to turn a profit and they will turn a profit. That is their job.

If you think it's bad to pay that bus driver his 160K a year... fine, but that bus service will go up a minimum of 2 or 3x if you privatize it.

I've seen toll roads start at reasonable prices, but were controlled by a for profit company who put the money in to make the road, and when the road didn't get the usage they expected, then the tolls went up.

It will not be cheaper in the long run.

tonymctones

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #89 on: March 13, 2011, 10:38:39 AM »
LMFAO you know it could also mean that it gets cheaper too holmes

you see when companies are forced to compete with one another instead of always being there like public entities are they are force to keep costs in check...

goodness gracious some of you guys

you say they will do whatever it takes to make a profit, well one of those things they will certainly do is NOT PAY A BUS DRIVER 165k a year when there are others who will do the job for 35k a year...

LMAO

tu_holmes

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #90 on: March 13, 2011, 10:42:08 AM »
LMFAO you know it could also mean that it gets cheaper too holmes

you see when companies are forced to compete with one another instead of always being there like public entities are they are force to keep costs in check...

goodness gracious some of you guys

you say they will do whatever it takes to make a profit, well one of those things they will certainly do is NOT PAY A BUS DRIVER 165k a year when there are others who will do the job for 35k a year...

LMAO

You're right... They will hire 4 other people to work those hours... which isn't the problem, however they WILL turn a profit, where public services are regulated to not allow that.

Again, I have never seen a privatized public entity that doesn't turn a profit or cost more.

You can say they will be cheaper, but where is that? What outsourced from public to private service costs less?

I've presented 2 documented incidents where they cost more... The Northrop Grumman partnership is HUGELY costly and VERY well documented.

You have 2 incidents where it's cheaper? Please... show them to me. I'll be happy to go tit-for-tat on this point.

I am quite certain I can come up with more costly incidents than you can come up with more cost effective and cheaper... Shall we give it a go?

tonymctones

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #91 on: March 13, 2011, 12:36:54 PM »
LOL tu its not just about cost its also about value...private entities provide much more value and can in turn charge more

you think that the products or services from private to public entities is the same? really???

if you think that public entities are always going to be cheaper then why dont we make everything public?

tu_holmes

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #92 on: March 13, 2011, 02:10:12 PM »
LOL tu its not just about cost its also about value...private entities provide much more value and can in turn charge more

you think that the products or services from private to public entities is the same? really???

if you think that public entities are always going to be cheaper then why dont we make everything public?

In the instances that I'm quoting the services have not been improved and are more costly because they are turning a profit.

I'm talking about real world incidents. No guessing... This is how it is.

So do you think a bus route has an ability to be improved?

Come on man... Don't drink the corporate Kool-Aid man.

I am not against private entities but I have seen that sometimes the government has actually done better.

Especially when it comes to providing some value by being legislatively unable to turn a profit.

tonymctones

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2011, 02:54:50 PM »
In the instances that I'm quoting the services have not been improved and are more costly because they are turning a profit.

I'm talking about real world incidents. No guessing... This is how it is.

So do you think a bus route has an ability to be improved?

Come on man... Don't drink the corporate Kool-Aid man.

I am not against private entities but I have seen that sometimes the government has actually done better.

Especially when it comes to providing some value by being legislatively unable to turn a profit.
I think the quality of service has the ability to be improved...yes

answer the question, if every public entity is cheaper than private entity then why not make them all public?

im not drinking the kool aid bro ham just know reality...you look at specific instances and assume its all the same...

tonymctones

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #94 on: March 13, 2011, 03:04:17 PM »
what companies are you asserting that were public and went private...the ngc thing was a partnership was it not?

was it simply the fact that it was a private/public partnership that made it more expensive or where there problems that occured such as is the case in 99% of partnerships?

what was the price before hand and the pricing now?

Skip8282

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2011, 03:06:49 PM »
I think the quality of service has the ability to be improved...yes

answer the question, if every public entity is cheaper than private entity then why not make them all public?

im not drinking the kool aid bro ham just know reality...you look at specific instances and assume its all the same...



I'm gonna have to agree with Tu here, lol.  Most people would probably be shocked to their core if they knew how many government contractors flew into DC every week.  I know I was and it's mind blowing.  They fly in on the taxpayer dime every Monday and fly out every Friday.  There's lots of reasons, but basically it would be cheaper to make them public.
 
I don't think we should make all companies public, of course, but areas where the government is the exclusive provider should generally remain handled by the government and not contracted out.  If there are particular areas where a specialized knowledge base is needed for a period of time, etc., then turn to contractors.  But as a day to day thing, the costs are exhorbitant.

tonymctones

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2011, 03:13:12 PM »


I'm gonna have to agree with Tu here, lol.  Most people would probably be shocked to their core if they knew how many government contractors flew into DC every week.  I know I was and it's mind blowing.  They fly in on the taxpayer dime every Monday and fly out every Friday.  There's lots of reasons, but basically it would be cheaper to make them public.
 
I don't think we should make all companies public, of course, but areas where the government is the exclusive provider should generally remain handled by the government and not contracted out.  If there are particular areas where a specialized knowledge base is needed for a period of time, etc., then turn to contractors.  But as a day to day thing, the costs are exhorbitant.
Oh i understand that, boeing etc...just ridiculous but tu's point is that a private company is going to cost more simply b/c they are profit driven...thats retarded to me

now as far as waste goes that to me is a totally different story...you can do things both private and public to cut down on waste.

Princess L

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2011, 05:02:02 PM »
Oh let's see, they voted in the middle of the night using false premises. They violated Wisconsin's open public meeting laws. They locked out any opposition and dissenting opinions. The goal wasn't to say money as they claim....in fact no money has been saved....it was to bust the unions. 

Where are you getting your information?  You are seriously misinformed.


Perhaps you are thinking of Doyle and his cronies doing things "in the middle of the night and under false premises".
:

Primemuscle

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2011, 07:13:54 PM »
Why work towards that PhD or MD when you can drive a bus on the same predetermined route every day and be rewarded with $160,000 of taxpayer money?

Because, believe it or not, some people actually enter into a profession for higher purposes than to earn money. Driving a bus may not be a personally rewarding as saving someone's life. Don't make it all about money....there is more to life than money. Truth is no matter how much of it you make, you just spend it anyway. Money doesn't equal happiness, although a lot of folks think it does and so end up disappointed whether they have it or not.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Walker offers concessions, pro union ppl please read this...
« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2011, 07:16:32 PM »
Unreal.  Typical union crap.