Author Topic: Cain and Abel and Seth -- Questions (Read 5049 times)

Butterbean · « **on:** January 30, 2011, 10:32:02 AM »

Does the bible specifically state that Cain was the first born son to Adam and Eve?

Does it specifically state that Abel was the second born son and that Seth is the third?

Thanks!

(To me, though the Genesis 4 account does state Cain is born before Abel and Abel before Seth, and that it could indicate that Cain was the first born son [although I don't see that specifically stated there?] but it doesn't seem to show that Abel is definitely the 2nd born son or that Seth is the 3rd [I looked at NIV and King James]. Is it stated somewhere else in the bible?)

Butterbean · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2011, 07:54:22 AM »

Pretty sure it's never stated.

To me this confirms that there should be no issue regarding the question of where the people came from that Cain was afraid would kill him (plus the actual bearing of daughters not being mentioned prior to Gen 5 doesn't mean there weren't any born to Adam and Eve prior to the mention after Seth [see Cain's wife].) :

Gen 4
13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

A friend of mine said her daughter told her that since the bible is focused on Christ and Gen includes the start of His line, that it is possible there were other people on earth at this time not in the line of Adam and Eve...I hadn't heard this theory before.

Jadeveon Clowney · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2011, 01:19:38 PM »

Quote from: Butterbean on February 01, 2011, 07:54:22 AM

Pretty sure it's never stated.

To me this confirms that there should be no issue regarding the question of where the people came from that Cain was afraid would kill him (plus the actual bearing of daughters not being mentioned prior to Gen 5 doesn't mean there weren't any born to Adam and Eve prior to the mention after Seth [see Cain's wife].) :

Gen 4
13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

A friend of mine said her daughter told her that since the bible is focused on Christ and Gen includes the start of His line, that it is possible there were other people on earth at this time not in the line of Adam and Eve...I hadn't heard this theory before.

Isaiah 34:14 (KJV- satyrs and other mystical creatures were around. If this were not the case, he could have said my brothers will kill me, not whoever finds me will kill me. Once he was driven from the presence, he was fair game for these mysterious creatures.

Mr. Magoo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:08:03 PM »

Why did God give Cain the ability to kill Abel?

God didn't give Abel the ability to turn his head in 360 degrees (for example). I think this would be a more beneficial ability to have.

Jadeveon Clowney · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:09:34 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Magoo on February 02, 2011, 05:08:03 PM

Why did God give Cain the ability to kill Abel?

God didn't give Abel the ability to turn his head in 360 degrees (for example). I think this would be a more beneficial ability to have.

I disagree. It's pretty easy to turn around. I would rather have a prehensile penis like an elephant.

Jadeveon Clowney · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:18:48 PM »

Just to be clear, not for any perverted reason. I just think it would be convenient if one's underwear needs adjustment in public or one has an itch that can't be scratched in public. It might also help when I'm playing the piano.

Butterbean · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2011, 08:29:14 AM »

Quote from: Jadeveon Clowney on February 02, 2011, 01:19:38 PM

Isaiah 34:14 (KJV- satyrs and other mystical creatures were around. If this were not the case, he could have said my brothers will kill me, not whoever finds me will kill me. Once he was driven from the presence, he was fair game for these mysterious creatures.

This is really interesting!

And that could be an explanation for "others" although my point is that Adam and Eve likely had many other children (sons and daughters) that also had many children and these "others" could be his brothers or sisters, nieces and nephews, grand-nieces and grand-nephews...etc.

I don't think I've ever really thought much about "satyrs" being in the bible...probably because I usually don't read the KJV unless doing some kind of translation comparison.

My NIV version seems to replace satyrs w/"goats."

I looked in our OT Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary and it says:

sa iyr or sa ir, shaggy; as noun, a he-goat; by anal, a fawn;-devil, goat hairy, kid rough, satyr.

Thanks...very interesting.

Quote from: Jadeveon Clowney on February 02, 2011, 05:18:48 PM

Just to be clear, not for any perverted reason. I just think it would be convenient if one's underwear needs adjustment in public or one has an itch that can't be scratched in public. It might also help when I'm playing the piano.

hahaha!

Migs · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2011, 07:51:28 PM »

Butterbean · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2011, 07:59:48 AM »

Quote from: Migs on February 03, 2011, 07:51:28 PM

$:-\$

What?

Migs · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:08:54 AM »

maybe i misunterstood. I thought that cane and abel and seth were the 3 oldest. cane caps abel and then flees to be with others find a wife etc. So basically he kills, goes on the lamb, finds a wife (which seems like it would have to be a sister) and then builds a city enoch. My thing is the fatc that the whole inbreeding thing would have been prominate and to severe. But if god allowed this to happen then he basically condones murder.

Butterbean · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:34:23 AM »

Quote from: Migs on February 04, 2011, 08:08:54 AM

maybe i misunterstood. I thought that cane and abel and seth were the 3 oldest. cane caps abel and then flees to be with others find a wife etc. So basically he kills, goes on the lamb, finds a wife (which seems like it would have to be a sister) and then builds a city enoch. My thing is the fatc that the whole inbreeding thing would have been prominate and to severe. But if god allowed this to happen then he basically condones murder.

No, the bible doesn't state that they are the 3 oldest (nowhere I've found anyway)...although it seems likely that Cain was the first born SON...

Re: the murder...are you saying that you feel that God condones all horrible things that happen at the hands and direction of man because God does have the ability to stop these things?

Quote from: Migs on February 04, 2011, 08:08:54 AM

My thing is the fatc that the whole inbreeding thing would have been prominate and to severe.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here? I don't understand the sentence I guess?

Migs · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2011, 07:25:10 PM »

Quote from: Butterbean on February 04, 2011, 08:34:23 AM

Re: the murder...are you saying that you feel that God condones all horrible things that happen at the hands and direction of man because God does have the ability to stop these things?

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here? I don't understand the sentence I guess?

pretty much.

the second sentence: basically that much inbreeding would have destroyed society so no way a civilization could emerge

Butterbean · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2011, 10:56:37 AM »

Quote from: Migs on February 04, 2011, 07:25:10 PM

pretty much.

Migs, do you believe that God exists (I can't remember)?

Quote from: Migs on February 04, 2011, 07:25:10 PM

the second sentence: basically that much inbreeding would have destroyed society so no way a civilization could emerge

But you are probably thinking about how dangerous inbreeding is today. Adam and Eve carried no mutant genes so back then inbreeding would have been a whole different smoke.

Jadeveon Clowney · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:24:24 PM »

Quote from: Butterbean on February 06, 2011, 10:56:37 AM

Adam and Eve carried no mutant genes

Migs · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2011, 06:02:40 PM »

Quote from: Butterbean on February 06, 2011, 10:56:37 AM

Migs, do you believe that God exists (I can't remember)?

But you are probably thinking about how dangerous inbreeding is today. Adam and Eve carried no mutant genes so back then inbreeding would have been a whole different smoke.

hrmph, if you can't remember I ain't tellin'.

They had mutant genes, everyone does. They aren't prefect

Butterbean · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:11:11 AM »

Quote from: Jadeveon Clowney on February 06, 2011, 02:24:24 PM

Quote from: Migs on February 08, 2011, 06:02:40 PM

hrmph, if you can't remember I ain't tellin'.

They had mutant genes, everyone does. They aren't prefect

The way I see it is God created Adam and Eve directly when there was as yet no sin in the world. They were created by Him, not birthed by other people.

As sin entered the world and time passed the "purity" of the passed genes became tainted and mutations occurred.

Migs · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:14:21 PM »

$:-\$

I am dissatisfied with this answer

Butterbean · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2011, 07:05:01 AM »

Quote from: Migs on February 10, 2011, 07:14:21 PM

$:-\$

I am dissatisfied with this answer

lol

GroinkTropin · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2011, 02:16:00 AM »

My understanding begins with this-because the Bible omits something does not mean that something did not exist/happen!

Adam and Eve were made to tend to the garden of Eden. Well technically God created Adam (from dust) and because Adam was lonely (despite being in the presence of God!) God then created Eve for him.

I am no theologian but I believe Adam and Eve had already been cast out of the Garden when they started having kids. I THINK God commanded them to do so in order to populate the planet. Also remember, people were living several hundred years at this time, so I think they had a pretty big family.

Also I was bothered by the whole Cain needing a mark to protect himself as he was forced to make it on his own. My buddy had a great explanation for that. Pretty sure the world was populating at this point and the Bible just skims a good deal around this time period.

Butterbean · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:47:24 AM »

Quote from: Methyl Mike on February 28, 2011, 02:16:00 AM

My understanding begins with this-because the Bible omits something does not mean that something did not exist/happen!

Yes, I agree.

Quote from: Methyl Mike on February 28, 2011, 02:16:00 AM

Also I was bothered by the whole Cain needing a mark to protect himself as he was forced to make it on his own. My buddy had a great explanation for that.

What was his explanation?

GroinkTropin · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2011, 11:12:28 PM »

Quote from: Butterbean on March 05, 2011, 08:47:24 AM

Yes, I agree.

What was his explanation?

Um my buddy is in the Army (was Major in USMC, transfered to work in psy-ops) he is being deployed for his fourth tour here pretty soon, and right now he is training on the east coast. I will shoot him an email, hopefully he responds.

BayGBM · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2011, 02:31:41 PM »

Quote from: Butterbean on February 01, 2011, 07:54:22 AM

Pretty sure it's never stated.

To me this confirms that there should be no issue regarding the question of where the people came from that Cain was afraid would kill him (plus the actual bearing of daughters not being mentioned prior to Gen 5 doesn't mean there weren't any born to Adam and Eve prior to the mention after Seth [see Cain's wife].) :

Gen 4
13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

A friend of mine said her daughter told her that since the bible is focused on Christ and Gen includes the start of His line, that it is possible there were other people on earth at this time not in the line of Adam and Eve...I hadn't heard this theory before.

I have.

tu_holmes · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2011, 02:40:08 PM »

If there were only 2 people on earth... There's a lot of incest I bet.

Why aren't we all familial DNA members then?

Butterbean · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2011, 07:01:13 AM »

Quote from: tu_holmes on March 17, 2011, 02:40:08 PM

If there were only 2 people on earth... There's a lot of incest I bet.

Why aren't we all familial DNA members then?

Doesn't "familial dna" cover only close relatives?

"After eight months, police requested help from the state Department of Justice to perform a familial DNA search, a process in which crime scene DNA is compared to the DNA of convicted offenders to see if there is a close match that could indicate a brother or father-son relationship."

www.sanfrancisco.cbsloca l.com

I guess they only search on the Y chromosome as well?

Check this out tu:

"Almost every cell in our bodies contains DNA, the genetic material that programs how cells work. 99.9 percent of human DNA is the same in everyone, meaning that only 0.1 percent of our DNA is unique!"

http://learngenetics.utah.edu/content/labs/gel/forensics

Thanks for the question tu I didn't realize the above before researching your question...very interesting.