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Author Topic: Michele Bachmann 2012 Breakdown - Radical Republican Presidential Candidate  (Read 2158 times)
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« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2011, 03:50:15 PM »

When Avs is on point... He is on point.

All of this is absolutely true.

Avs? Who is that? Huh
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« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2011, 03:50:29 PM »

It's too subtle for you then; why is women initiated violence against men acceptable then? Why are men routinely portrayed as idiots in numerous commercials, when the woman is graceful and clever? Why in custody battels, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch? That is misandry in operation.

Man hatred is subtle?  Hardly.  You asked what appear to be a number rhetorical questions, none based in fact.  If they are not rhetorical, which one do you want to deal with first?  
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« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2011, 03:52:01 PM »

Avs? Who is that? Huh

I must have you confused with someone else.

I thought you and Avesher were the same person.
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« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2011, 03:57:27 PM »

Man hatred is subtle?  Hardly.  You asked what appear to be a number rhetorical questions, none based in fact.  If they are not rhetorical, which one do you want to deal with first?  

We can deal with the divorce wins first since that is most likely the most obvious one.
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« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2011, 04:05:57 PM »

We can deal with the divorce wins first since that is most likely the most obvious one.

O.K.  You'll have to explain yourself a little more.  You said:  "Why in custody battels, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch?"

What does child custody have to do with assets?  
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« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2011, 04:09:57 PM »

O.K.  You'll have to explain yourself a little more.  You said:  "Why in custody battels, regardless of actualy paternal performance, is the mother invariably awarded the lion's share of the assets, even if she is a total bitch?"

What does child custody have to do with assets?  

Custody battles result from divorce and division of assets; they go hand in hand.
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« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2011, 06:33:38 PM »

Custody battles result from divorce and division of assets; they go hand in hand.

Custody battles result from divorce and a dispute over who will be the primary parent raising the kid, support obligations, etc.  Not the same as dividing up assets. 

I'm not sure if you're talking about child custody or the division of assets?   
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« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2011, 07:41:50 PM »

Custody battles result from divorce and a dispute over who will be the primary parent raising the kid, support obligations, etc.  Not the same as dividing up assets. 

I'm not sure if you're talking about child custody or the division of assets?   

Then why does the same judge who tries the custody, the same one who deals with assets in court?

They really do go hand in hand.
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« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2011, 03:51:28 PM »

Then why does the same judge who tries the custody, the same one who deals with assets in court?

They really do go hand in hand.

No idea. 

Child custody deals with the best interests of the kid.  Division of assets (based on where you live), involves a "fair" division of people's stuff.  Not the same thing.
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« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2011, 03:54:13 PM »

No idea.  

Child custody deals with the best interests of the kid.  Division of assets (based on where you live), involves a "fair" division of people's stuff.  Not the same thing.

There is an automatic bias where the 'best interests' are usually thought to be with the mother, even if she is abusive, violent and a terrible parent. This is the same bias that awards women the great share of a man's assets in such cases. Society is biased in this regard towards men.
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« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2011, 04:00:07 PM »

There is an automatic bias where the 'best interests' are usually thought to be with the mother, even if she is abusive, violent and a terrible parent. This is the same bias that awards women the great share of a man's assets in such cases. Society is biased in this regard towards men.

Yes... fair division is not in fact "fair". A guy who works his ass off... has no kids... will still be forced to give up 1/2 the stuff to the woman who makes less because she in fact, is a failure at her career.

What Beach refuses to acknowledge is that once a parent has "custody" of the children, the assets become a part of that as "protection of the children's well-being". Imagine if you will, a woman who divorces her husband and has the children most of the time.. Because the father must travel for work lets say... If the children are not in his domicile for 90 days, then she is warranted more child support than if the kids are with him 90 days or more.

Then, the woman receiving that high amount of child support can take the money and use it as income to purchase a house... THEN they can invite their new boyfriend into their house to live... Imagine then if there is alimony involved... as long as she's not married, alimoney must still be paid (the alimony is paid out because she is in fact not used to living at the standard which she must live as a single parent, because her husband was more successful then she was.

All of this is factored in and no matter what you say, they are intertwined.

Beach's answer of "I don't know" in response to why they are tried in the same court room and by the same judge (and the courts are "Juvenile and Domestic Relations" courts) doesn't really sound like much of an answer to be honest.

At least he's honest in that he doesn't know... If he's never been through it, he has no statement to say he understands or knows... Which he obviously does not.
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« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2011, 04:06:34 PM »

There is an automatic bias where the 'best interests' are usually thought to be with the mother, even if she is abusive, violent and a terrible parent. This is the same bias that awards women the great share of a man's assets in such cases. Society is biased in this regard towards men.

Pretty big overstatement.  I know of lots of examples where a father has gotten joint or even sole custody of his kids.  Did you follow Dwayne Wade's custody battle?  He wound up with custody of his kids. 

Not sure how you can say there is an automatic bias in every single child custody case.  Did you read that somewhere? 
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« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2011, 04:08:14 PM »

Yes... fair division is not in fact "fair". A guy who works his ass off... has no kids... will still be forced to give up 1/2 the stuff to the woman who makes less because she in fact, is a failure at her career.

What Beach refuses to acknowledge is that once a parent has "custody" of the children, the assets become a part of that as "protection of the children's well-being". Imagine if you will, a woman who divorces her husband and has the children most of the time.. Because the father must travel for work lets say... If the children are not in his domicile for 90 days, then she is warranted more child support than if the kids are with him 90 days or more.

Then, the woman receiving that high amount of child support can take the money and use it as income to purchase a house... THEN they can invite their new boyfriend into their house to live... Imagine then if there is alimony involved... as long as she's not married, alimoney must still be paid (the alimony is paid out because she is in fact not used to living at the standard which she must live as a single parent, because her husband was more successful then she was.

All of this is factored in and no matter what you say, they are intertwined.

Beach's answer of "I don't know" in response to why they are tried in the same court room and by the same judge (and the courts are "Juvenile and Domestic Relations" courts) doesn't really sound like much of an answer to be honest.

At least he's honest in that he doesn't know... If he's never been through it, he has no statement to say he understands or knows... Which he obviously does not.

I've heard of horror stories.  I had a good friend whose ex-wife didn't remarry for like 20 years just so she could keep receiving alimony.  The only thing that stopped it was his death.   Undecided

But I've heard of far more instances of deadbeat dads. 
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« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2011, 04:08:56 PM »

Yes... fair division is not in fact "fair". A guy who works his ass off... has no kids... will still be forced to give up 1/2 the stuff to the woman who makes less because she in fact, is a failure at her career.

What Beach refuses to acknowledge is that once a parent has "custody" of the children, the assets become a part of that as "protection of the children's well-being". Imagine if you will, a woman who divorces her husband and has the children most of the time.. Because the father must travel for work lets say... If the children are not in his domicile for 90 days, then she is warranted more child support than if the kids are with him 90 days or more.

Then, the woman receiving that high amount of child support can take the money and use it as income to purchase a house... THEN they can invite their new boyfriend into their house to live... Imagine then if there is alimony involved... as long as she's not married, alimoney must still be paid (the alimony is paid out because she is in fact not used to living at the standard which she must live as a single parent, because her husband was more successful then she was.

All of this is factored in and no matter what you say, they are intertwined.

Beach's answer of "I don't know" in response to why they are tried in the same court room and by the same judge (and the courts are "Juvenile and Domestic Relations" courts) doesn't really sound like much of an answer to be honest.

At least he's honest in that he doesn't know... If he's never been through it, he has no statement to say he understands or knows... Which he obviously does not.

I had a friend, his wife cheated on him! and she still got over 50% of his assets because she claimed his 'inattention' towards her (he was working a lot trying to support his kids) drove her to do it and she had no choice. She then poisoned his relationship to his teenage daughter by concocting stories about him and now the daughter doesn't talk to him; son still does because he was older and independent of mind. She got the house, he has to pay money to her for the rest of his life and the daughter won't talk to him...because his wife cheated. This shit is actually common and that is the scary thing.
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« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2011, 04:14:19 PM »

Pretty big overstatement.  I know of lots of examples where a father has gotten joint or even sole custody of his kids.  Did you follow Dwayne Wade's custody battle?  He wound up with custody of his kids. 

Not sure how you can say there is an automatic bias in every single child custody case.  Did you read that somewhere? 

It's part of our biology and it transforms into societal bias. We traditionally accept females as being gentle, better caretakers and are more sympathetic towards them in difficult situations. That is the automatic bias. For example, realistic assessments of domestic violence are actually about 50/50 but we still hear the mythology that all domestic violence is committed by men, even though it is about even.

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm

Quote
Very little in known about the actual number of men who are in a domestic relationship in which they are abused or treated violently by women.  In 100 domestic violence situations approximately 40 cases involve violence by women against men.  An estimated 400,000 women per year are abused or treated violently in the United States by their spouse or intimate partner.  This means that roughly 300,000 to 400,000 men are treated violently by their wife or girl friend. 

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« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2011, 04:18:44 PM »

It's part of our biology and it transforms into societal bias. We traditionally accept females as being gentle, better caretakers and are more sympathetic towards them in difficult situations. That is the automatic bias. For example, realistic assessments of domestic violence are actually about 50/50 but we still hear the mythology that all domestic violence is committed by men, even though it is about even.

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm



You're saying there is an automatic biologically based bias in every child custody case?  That's a new one.  So how does this work exactly?  A male judge will have an automatic bias against the man based on biology?  Wouldn't the male judge actually have a bias in favor of the man??   

There are distinct differences between men and women, particularly when it comes to child rearing.  We bring different things to the table.  We compliment each other.  This is actually a good thing. 
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« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2011, 04:23:14 PM »

You're saying there is an automatic biologically based bias in every child custody case?  That's a new one.  So how does this work exactly?  A male judge will have an automatic bias against the man based on biology?  Wouldn't the male judge actually have a bias in favor of the man??   

There are distinct differences between men and women, particularly when it comes to child rearing.  We bring different things to the table.  We compliment each other.  This is actually a good thing. 

It's not really new at all, it's really old. I know you don't believe in evolution but it is encoded in our biology by millions of years of evolution. You must know the saying: women and children first? Sure you do. Women are the limiting factor in reproduction and thus deemed more valuable. Women are consistently kept out of wars for example and it was not just because of a lack of strength. That is the biological bias that is transformed into a social bias.

And I can speak from personal experience, having been a victim of domestic violence that people and the police in particular do not take violence against men by women seriously.
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« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2011, 04:40:42 PM »

Pretty big overstatement.  I know of lots of examples where a father has gotten joint or even sole custody of his kids.  Did you follow Dwayne Wade's custody battle?  He wound up with custody of his kids.  

Not sure how you can say there is an automatic bias in every single child custody case.  Did you read that somewhere?  

Your lots of examples is bullshit.

http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/html/custody/rights.html

Child custody rights are awarded to parents, step-parents, grandparents, and other legal guardians as determined by a family court judge. Legal judgments in child custody rights cases favor biological parents who are deemed suitable guardians. Child custody rights are awarded based on the best interests of the children involved. Child custody rights and responsibilities detail who will have legal and physical custody of the child. Child support payments will also be determined where applicable in child custody rights cases.

Child custody rights may be shared by both parents or, primary child custody rights may be awarded to one parent or legal guardian. Since the 1970s the family court will award child custody rights contingent with the best interests of the child. In the past, family courts used to favor mothers in child custody rights cases. This bias is still held by some family law judges though they will always make a fair assessment of a child's best interests when determining child custody rights.

In seven out of ten cases, child custody rights are awarded primarily to the mother of the children. Primary child custody rights are awarded to fathers less than ten percent of the time. Joint custody is awarded about twenty percent of the time meaning that child custody rights and responsibilities are shared by both parents. In most cases that do not involve abuse or neglect, parents will be free to determine the division of child custody rights as long as the arrangement is approved by a family court judge.

Parents can largely determine child custody rights when there are not major discrepancies in the terms sought by each party. Mediation is a process by which a neutral third party intercedes to facilitate decisions about child custody rights. When an agreement can be made through medications and approved by a judge, the terms of this parenting plan will be upheld. When there are disagreements over child custody rights, the case will be heard by a judge who will ultimately determine child custody rights.

When a judge hears a child custody rights case, s/he will take several factors into account when making a decision. Courts will often rely on the expert testimony of a psychologist who will evaluate child custody rights options by looking at a number of relevant factors. The following factors are taken into consideration when determining child custody rights: past parenting behavior, the age of the child, the child's preference, the amount of time a parent can dedicate to properly raising a child, household stability, financial considerations, and other specifics. Children may be allowed to testify at any age though special considerations are made for younger children.

Child custody rights involve both physical and legal rights and responsibilities. Physical child custody rights refer to who will actually take care of the child~ who the child will live and spend time with. Legal child custody rights refer to parental decision making power yielded over the major events of a child's life, such as education, health care, activities, religion, and the like.

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« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2011, 04:42:56 PM »

I've heard of horror stories.  I had a good friend whose ex-wife didn't remarry for like 20 years just so she could keep receiving alimony.  The only thing that stopped it was his death.   Undecided

But I've heard of far more instances of deadbeat dads. 

Of course you hear more of deadbeat dads... 2 reasons.

1. The women get the kids 7 out of 10 times
and
2. The men typically have better careers and make more money, so even if they DO get the kids... How many men actually ask for child support... Almost none.
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« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2011, 05:41:42 PM »

It's not really new at all, it's really old. I know you don't believe in evolution but it is encoded in our biology by millions of years of evolution. You must know the saying: women and children first? Sure you do. Women are the limiting factor in reproduction and thus deemed more valuable. Women are consistently kept out of wars for example and it was not just because of a lack of strength. That is the biological bias that is transformed into a social bias.

And I can speak from personal experience, having been a victim of domestic violence that people and the police in particular do not take violence against men by women seriously.

Do that is junk science.  In fact, it's not even science. 
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« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2011, 05:47:37 PM »

Your lots of examples is bullshit.

http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/html/custody/rights.html

Child custody rights are awarded to parents, step-parents, grandparents, and other legal guardians as determined by a family court judge. Legal judgments in child custody rights cases favor biological parents who are deemed suitable guardians. Child custody rights are awarded based on the best interests of the children involved. Child custody rights and responsibilities detail who will have legal and physical custody of the child. Child support payments will also be determined where applicable in child custody rights cases.

Child custody rights may be shared by both parents or, primary child custody rights may be awarded to one parent or legal guardian. Since the 1970s the family court will award child custody rights contingent with the best interests of the child. In the past, family courts used to favor mothers in child custody rights cases. This bias is still held by some family law judges though they will always make a fair assessment of a child's best interests when determining child custody rights.

In seven out of ten cases, child custody rights are awarded primarily to the mother of the children. Primary child custody rights are awarded to fathers less than ten percent of the time. Joint custody is awarded about twenty percent of the time meaning that child custody rights and responsibilities are shared by both parents. In most cases that do not involve abuse or neglect, parents will be free to determine the division of child custody rights as long as the arrangement is approved by a family court judge.

Parents can largely determine child custody rights when there are not major discrepancies in the terms sought by each party. Mediation is a process by which a neutral third party intercedes to facilitate decisions about child custody rights. When an agreement can be made through medications and approved by a judge, the terms of this parenting plan will be upheld. When there are disagreements over child custody rights, the case will be heard by a judge who will ultimately determine child custody rights.

When a judge hears a child custody rights case, s/he will take several factors into account when making a decision. Courts will often rely on the expert testimony of a psychologist who will evaluate child custody rights options by looking at a number of relevant factors. The following factors are taken into consideration when determining child custody rights: past parenting behavior, the age of the child, the child's preference, the amount of time a parent can dedicate to properly raising a child, household stability, financial considerations, and other specifics. Children may be allowed to testify at any age though special considerations are made for younger children.

Child custody rights involve both physical and legal rights and responsibilities. Physical child custody rights refer to who will actually take care of the child~ who the child will live and spend time with. Legal child custody rights refer to parental decision making power yielded over the major events of a child's life, such as education, health care, activities, religion, and the like.



My lots of examples are what they are:  lots of examples. 
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« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2011, 05:48:41 PM »

Of course you hear more of deadbeat dads... 2 reasons.

1. The women get the kids 7 out of 10 times
and
2. The men typically have better careers and make more money, so even if they DO get the kids... How many men actually ask for child support... Almost none.

3.  Men don't take care of their kids like they're supposed to.  That's primarily why I hear about deadbeat dads so much. 
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« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2011, 06:52:22 PM »

Do that is junk science.  In fact, it's not even science. 

It certainly is science. How else do you explain why women's and children's lives are more valuable than adult male's lives?
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« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2011, 06:55:21 PM »

Women can reproduce
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« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2011, 06:57:36 PM »

It certainly is science. How else do you explain why women's and children's lives are more valuable than adult male's lives?

I don't think they are more valuable.  (That isn't science either.) 

I was specifically referring to your claim that gender-based biological differences cause all male and female judges to have a bias against men in child custody disputes. 
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