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Author Topic: Atheism = Superstition?  (Read 1718 times)
Butterbean
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« on: April 25, 2011, 11:21:23 AM »

According to Anthony DeStefano, it is. 

He also touches on the assumption that Christianity is simply made-up wishful thinking.



http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-04-21-Easter-lesson-for-atheists.htm?sms_ss=email&at_xt=4db4165dd4543483%2C0

How Easter and Christianity undermine atheism
By Anthony DeStefano

This Easter it seems that atheists have a lot to rejoice about. According to the latest poll released by the U.S. Census Bureau in its American Religious Identification Survey, the number of self-proclaimed atheists in America has nearly doubled since 2001 — from 900,000 to 1.6 million.

In a nation that once prided itself on its Judeo-Christian heritage, one out of every five Americans now claims no religious identity whatsoever; and the number of self-proclaimed Christians has declined by a whopping 15%.

Yes, those who believe in nothing seem to be winning more and more converts every year.

The superstition of atheism

Of course, it’s not quite fair to say that atheists believe in nothing. They do believe in something — the philosophical theory known as Materialism, which states that the only thing that exists is matter; that all substances and all phenomena in the universe are purely physical.

The problem is that this really isn’t a theory at all. It’s a superstition; a myth that basically says that everything in life — our thoughts, our emotions, our hopes, our ambitions, our passions, our memories, our philosophies, our politics, our beliefs in God and salvation and damnation — that all of this is merely the result of biochemical reactions and the movement of molecules in our brain.

What nonsense.

We can’t reduce the whole of reality to what our senses tell us for the simple reason that our senses are notorious for lying to us. Our senses tell us that the world is flat, and yet it’s not. Our senses tell us that the world is chaotic, and yet we know that on both a micro and a macro level, it’s incredibly organized. Our senses tell us that we’re stationary, and yet we’re really moving at incredible speeds. We just can’t see it.

But the most important things in life can’t be seen with the eyes. Ideas can’t be seen. Love can’t be seen. Honor can’t be seen. This isn’t a new concept. Judaism and Christianity and Islam and Buddhism have all taught for thousands of years that the highest forms of reality are invisible and mysterious. And these realities will never be reducible to clear-cut scientific formulae for the simple reason that they will never be fully comprehensible to the human mind. God didn’t mean them to be.

No less a genius than Albert Einstein once said: “The most beautiful thing we can experience in life is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: for his eyes are closed.”

Too many people go through life today with their eyes closed. They miss out on the mysterious because they’re so fixated on what they can see and smell and touch and taste and hear. They’re so steeped in the “superstition of materialism” that they’re totally blind to the existence of another world — a radically different world than the one they’re familiar with, but a world nonetheless: a world of miracles, a world of grace, a world of angels, a world of diabolical warfare, a world where the highest values are completely opposite from those of our secular society — where weakness equals strength, sacrifice equals salvation, and suffering equals unlimited power.

Wishful thinking? Really?

Atheists, of course, claim that all of this is absurd. Christianity, especially, they say, with its belief in Easter and the Resurrection, is nothing but “wishful thinking” — the product of weak human psychology; a psychology that is so afraid of death that it must create “delusional fantasies” in order to make life on Earth bearable.

But is it wishful thinking to believe in hell, the devil and demons? Is it wishful thinking to believe we’re going to be judged and held accountable for every sin we’ve ever committed? Is it wishful thinking to believe the best way to live our life is to sacrifice our own desires for the sake of others? Is it wishful thinking to believe that we should discipline our natural bodily urges for the sake of some unseen “kingdom”?

And while we’re at it, is it wishful thinking to believe God wants us to love our enemies? For goodness sake, what kind of demand is that?

If human beings were going to invent a religion based on wishful thinking, they could come up with something a lot “easier” than Christianity. After all, why not wish for a religion that promised eternal life in heaven, but at the same time allowed promiscuous sex, encouraged gluttony, did away with all the commandments, and forbade anyone to ever mention the idea of judgment and punishment?

Wouldn’t that make a lot more sense? And yet, atheists persist in this ridiculous notion that human beings “invented” God merely because we’re afraid of death and want to see our dead relatives again. Amazing.

But atheists can scoff all they want. They can write all the bestselling books they want. No matter how hard they try, they will never succeed in making Christianity “a thing of the past.” And they will never succeed in snuffing out that faith in God that all human beings naturally possess; a faith that is ingrained in our minds, hearts and souls forever. Why?

Because aside from all the logical arguments for God’s existence and all the miracles and all the truths contained in Scripture, one simple fact remains: 2,000 years ago, on that first, quiet Easter Sunday morning, Christ did rise.

Anthony DeStefano is the author of the Doubleday book, The Invisible World: Understanding Angels, Demons and the Spiritual Realities that Surround Us.

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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 09:29:24 AM »

oh brother were to start with this

"the philosophical theory known as Materialism, which states that the only thing that exists is matter; that all substances and all phenomena in the universe are purely physical".


umm no, atheism says nothing about materialism. Atheists can beleive in tachyons can't they? magic and warlocks, it is a disbelief in god. For example i might think there is no god, but feel as though a soul exists and it is immaterial.

"The problem is that this really isn’t a theory at all. It’s a superstition; a myth that basically says that everything in life — our thoughts, our emotions, our hopes, our ambitions, our passions, our memories, our philosophies, our politics, our beliefs in God and salvation and damnation — that all of this is merely the result of biochemical reactions and the movement of molecules in our brain."

see above. However, this guy is a meatbag, thats all that has ever been shown, reductionism has never been proven wrong, however dualism has been over and over, if anything is non-sense it's the shit this  guy is spouting.


"We can’t reduce the whole of reality to what our senses tell us for the simple reason that our senses are notorious for lying to us. Our senses tell us that the world is flat, and yet it’s not. Our senses tell us that the world is chaotic, and yet we know that on both a micro and a macro level, it’s incredibly organized. Our senses tell us that we’re stationary, and yet we’re really moving at incredible speeds. We just can’t see it."

his above sentence never confined material to our sense, yet he somehow jumps the gun and points it out here. We have tools that improve our senses but geuss what has been found out about everything that we cannot sense? ITS ALL MATERIAL. by definition we could never measure, see or sense something immaterial, we couldnt touch, taste or calculate it, or even see its effects.

"But the most important things in life can’t be seen with the eyes. Ideas can’t be seen. Love can’t be seen. Honor can’t be seen. This isn’t a new concept. Judaism and Christianity and Islam and Buddhism have all taught for thousands of years that the highest forms of reality are invisible and mysterious. And these realities will never be reducible to clear-cut scientific formulae for the simple reason that they will never be fully comprehensible to the human mind. God didn’t mean them to be."

is this guy about to claim we cant sense these things, or know reality yet is about to claim he does? lol. Where is he geting this priviledged information?


"But is it wishful thinking to believe in hell, the devil and demons? Is it wishful thinking to believe we’re going to be judged and held accountable for every sin we’ve ever committed? Is it wishful thinking to believe the best way to live our life is to sacrifice our own desires for the sake of others? Is it wishful thinking to believe that we should discipline our natural bodily urges for the sake of some unseen “kingdom”?"

fuck off, seriously. Yes it is. you go to heaven by accepting christ, nice and simple. Hell is a scare tactic used to convert people. is it wishful thinking to believe something that there is no evidence for, that you cannot see, measure or sense? YES you twit.

ill finish later but this guy is a retard.
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Butterbean
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 11:20:04 AM »

Atheists can beleive in tachyons can't they? magic and warlocks, it is a disbelief in god. For example i might think there is no god, but feel as though a soul exists and it is immaterial.


What are your beliefs regarding warlocks?  That they are something other than human?


Do you believe a soul exists? 




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Butterbean
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 11:23:40 AM »


see above. However, this guy is a meatbag, thats all that has ever been shown, reductionism has never been proven wrong, however dualism has been over and over, if anything is non-sense it's the shit this  guy is spouting.

Have they applied reductionism to magic (I assume you mean that you believe in true magic and weren't referring to sleight of hand).


Also, can you provide a link you approve of where dualism has been proven wrong?
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2011, 11:30:09 AM »

Sorry to have to keep making new posts but this SMF version makes my screen jump if I try to do anything out of the text box.

his above sentence never confined material to our sense, yet he somehow jumps the gun and points it out here. We have tools that improve our senses but geuss what has been found out about everything that we cannot sense? ITS ALL MATERIAL. by definition we could never measure, see or sense something immaterial, we couldnt touch, taste or calculate it, or even see its effects.


I'm confused.  Are you saying emotions/the sense of right and wrong/etc are material? 
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2011, 11:35:17 AM »


is this guy about to claim we cant sense these things, or know reality yet is about to claim he does? lol. Where is he geting this priviledged information?


No, I think he's saying that everyone senses these things ...that they are real but they aren't "reducible to clear-cut scientific formulae."


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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2011, 11:38:03 AM »

fuck off, seriously. Yes it is. you go to heaven by accepting christ, nice and simple. Hell is a scare tactic used to convert people. is it wishful thinking to believe something that there is no evidence for, that you cannot see, measure or sense? YES you twit.

Wouldn't it be easier to not believe in an afterlife at all?
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2011, 08:14:39 AM »

Compared to some other articles written by Christians trying to belittle non believers, this one is on about a 5th grade level. It actually was painful to read it was so poorly done. Yet it gets published?
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 03:52:37 PM »

According to Anthony DeStefano, it is. 

He also touches on the assumption that Christianity is simply made-up wishful thinking.



http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-04-21-Easter-lesson-for-atheists.htm?sms_ss=email&at_xt=4db4165dd4543483%2C0

How Easter and Christianity undermine atheism
By Anthony DeStefano

This Easter it seems that atheists have a lot to rejoice about. According to the latest poll released by the U.S. Census Bureau in its American Religious Identification Survey, the number of self-proclaimed atheists in America has nearly doubled since 2001 — from 900,000 to 1.6 million.

In a nation that once prided itself on its Judeo-Christian heritage, one out of every five Americans now claims no religious identity whatsoever; and the number of self-proclaimed Christians has declined by a whopping 15%.

Yes, those who believe in nothing seem to be winning more and more converts every year.

The superstition of atheism

Of course, it’s not quite fair to say that atheists believe in nothing. They do believe in something — the philosophical theory known as Materialism, which states that the only thing that exists is matter; that all substances and all phenomena in the universe are purely physical.

The problem is that this really isn’t a theory at all. It’s a superstition; a myth that basically says that everything in life — our thoughts, our emotions, our hopes, our ambitions, our passions, our memories, our philosophies, our politics, our beliefs in God and salvation and damnation — that all of this is merely the result of biochemical reactions and the movement of molecules in our brain.

What nonsense.

We can’t reduce the whole of reality to what our senses tell us for the simple reason that our senses are notorious for lying to us. Our senses tell us that the world is flat, and yet it’s not. Our senses tell us that the world is chaotic, and yet we know that on both a micro and a macro level, it’s incredibly organized. Our senses tell us that we’re stationary, and yet we’re really moving at incredible speeds. We just can’t see it.

But the most important things in life can’t be seen with the eyes. Ideas can’t be seen. Love can’t be seen. Honor can’t be seen. This isn’t a new concept. Judaism and Christianity and Islam and Buddhism have all taught for thousands of years that the highest forms of reality are invisible and mysterious. And these realities will never be reducible to clear-cut scientific formulae for the simple reason that they will never be fully comprehensible to the human mind. God didn’t mean them to be.

No less a genius than Albert Einstein once said: “The most beautiful thing we can experience in life is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: for his eyes are closed.”

Too many people go through life today with their eyes closed. They miss out on the mysterious because they’re so fixated on what they can see and smell and touch and taste and hear. They’re so steeped in the “superstition of materialism” that they’re totally blind to the existence of another world — a radically different world than the one they’re familiar with, but a world nonetheless: a world of miracles, a world of grace, a world of angels, a world of diabolical warfare, a world where the highest values are completely opposite from those of our secular society — where weakness equals strength, sacrifice equals salvation, and suffering equals unlimited power.

Wishful thinking? Really?

Atheists, of course, claim that all of this is absurd. Christianity, especially, they say, with its belief in Easter and the Resurrection, is nothing but “wishful thinking” — the product of weak human psychology; a psychology that is so afraid of death that it must create “delusional fantasies” in order to make life on Earth bearable.

But is it wishful thinking to believe in hell, the devil and demons? Is it wishful thinking to believe we’re going to be judged and held accountable for every sin we’ve ever committed? Is it wishful thinking to believe the best way to live our life is to sacrifice our own desires for the sake of others? Is it wishful thinking to believe that we should discipline our natural bodily urges for the sake of some unseen “kingdom”?

And while we’re at it, is it wishful thinking to believe God wants us to love our enemies? For goodness sake, what kind of demand is that?

If human beings were going to invent a religion based on wishful thinking, they could come up with something a lot “easier” than Christianity. After all, why not wish for a religion that promised eternal life in heaven, but at the same time allowed promiscuous sex, encouraged gluttony, did away with all the commandments, and forbade anyone to ever mention the idea of judgment and punishment?

Wouldn’t that make a lot more sense? And yet, atheists persist in this ridiculous notion that human beings “invented” God merely because we’re afraid of death and want to see our dead relatives again. Amazing.

But atheists can scoff all they want. They can write all the bestselling books they want. No matter how hard they try, they will never succeed in making Christianity “a thing of the past.” And they will never succeed in snuffing out that faith in God that all human beings naturally possess; a faith that is ingrained in our minds, hearts and souls forever. Why?

Because aside from all the logical arguments for God’s existence and all the miracles and all the truths contained in Scripture, one simple fact remains: 2,000 years ago, on that first, quiet Easter Sunday morning, Christ did rise.

Anthony DeStefano is the author of the Doubleday book, The Invisible World: Understanding Angels, Demons and the Spiritual Realities that Surround Us.



Good read, thanks!
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 11:28:20 PM »

LOL, you want to talk about nonsense ?!!? how about believing in an 'imaginary' man in the sky that created what took billions of years, in 7 days and throws a hissy fit if you worship other idols/gods and not him and then wants to kill you and your entire family ??

LOL talk about a fairy tale  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 06:24:33 PM »

Weak, beyond weak actually.
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2011, 06:49:00 PM »

Butterbean, are you drunk?

Have you been taking drugs, son?
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Butterbean
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011, 07:29:35 AM »

Butterbean, are you drunk?

Have you been taking drugs, son?
No.
Not recently!


LOL, you want to talk about nonsense ?!!? how about believing in an 'imaginary' man in the sky that created what took billions of years, in 7 days and throws a hissy fit if you worship other idols/gods and not him and then wants to kill you and your entire family ??

LOL talk about a fairy tale  Roll Eyes

Captain, what took billions of years?



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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2011, 01:26:29 PM »

No.
Not recently!


Captain, what took billions of years?





He is referring to life and the Earth.
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 08:58:59 PM »

Butters is a chick dude lol.
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2011, 02:48:15 PM »


[/quote]
Sorry to have to keep making new posts but this SMF version makes my screen jump if I try to do anything out of the text box.

I'm confused.  Are you saying emotions/the sense of right and wrong/etc are material? 

no,they are neither material or immaterial they are called processes, like taking a photograph of the ocean, you can see the picture but if you open the camera water doesnt fall out, same with thoughts and emotions. Birds migrating is an example of a process, its not a thing in the sense of material or immaterial.
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