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Author Topic: The Death of Sandra Bland  (Read 4884 times)
Thin Lizzy
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« Reply #125 on: July 28, 2015, 04:21:59 AM »

I also think the cop got back to his vehicle and checked her details and it came back, "General pain in the arse", maybe this influenced his decision to be a bit less tollerant with her.


LMAO

You know, it's possible that both scenarios are correct.

The woman was a nightmare AND the cop is a Barney Fife who let his badge, gun, and taser go to his little head.

And for the younger Getbiggers not familiar with the Barney Fife character:

From Wiki:

"Barney is often overly analytical and alarmist about benign situations, such as the modest Mayberry crime scene. He takes a minor infraction, blows it out of proportion, and then concocts an elaborate solution (sometimes involving inept civilians, like Otis Campbell or Gomer Pyle) to resolve it. In one early episode, where Andy was briefly summoned away, acting sheriff Barney proceeds to book and lock up nearly everyone in town. Despite his shortcomings, Barney is zealous about law enforcement, regularly spouting off penal codes and ordinances to thugs and jaywalkers alike.

Sometimes considered a blowhard with delusions of grandeur, Barney fancies himself an expert on firearms, women, singing, and just about any other topic of conversation brought up while he is around. Conversely, Andy knows that Barney's false bravado is a smokescreen for his insecurities, and low self-confidence."


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andreisdaman
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« Reply #126 on: July 28, 2015, 08:41:40 AM »

I also think the cop got back to his vehicle and checked her details and it came back, "General pain in the arse", maybe this influenced his decision to be a bit less tollerant with her.

You want to be a nuisance to the police then dont be surprised if they do it back

I think that subways video of her in the mall obviously shows there are some issues there...
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #127 on: July 28, 2015, 09:03:49 AM »

I think that subways video of her in the mall obviously shows there are some issues there...

she used some of the same wording like " let's do this"  I know there are some "activists" that get their jollies getting into confrontations with authority figures. She obviously enjoyed the confrontations.
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #128 on: July 28, 2015, 09:20:41 AM »

she used some of the same wording like " let's do this"  I know there are some "activists" that get their jollies getting into confrontations with authority figures. She obviously enjoyed the confrontations.

I gotta agree with that
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Conker
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« Reply #129 on: July 28, 2015, 10:33:04 AM »

i love it how americans harp on about their "freedoms" and "constitutional rights", gotta keep their guns in case the government tries to run roughshod over them.

then a situation like this arises and all of a sudden 'americans' believe that a citizen should act subserviently when faced with a public servant who is overexerting his authority.

the cop had no right to ask her to put her cigarette out and no right to then escalate the situation because she refused. there was no reason at that point to order her out of the vehicle, the ticket had been written all that was left to do was give it to her and let her go.

he only ordered her out of the car because he was butthurt by her refusal to put out the cigarette. she spoke to him in a civil manner right up to and even beyond the point he started abusing his power. no one is obliged to like the police or act happy if they got stopped by them.
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #130 on: July 28, 2015, 10:42:01 AM »

i love it how americans harp on about their "freedoms" and "constitutional rights", gotta keep their guns in case the government tries to run roughshod over them.

then a situation like this arises and all of a sudden 'americans' believe that a citizen should act subserviently when faced with a public servant who is overexerting his authority.

the cop had no right to ask her to put her cigarette out and no right to then escalate the situation because she refused. there was no reason at that point to order her out of the vehicle, the ticket had been written all that was left to do was give it to her and let her go.

he only ordered her out of the car because he was butthurt by her refusal to put out the cigarette. she spoke to him in a civil manner right up to and even beyond the point he started abusing his power. no one is obliged to like the police or act happy if they got stopped by them.

I agree with your point..I too think he was butthurt over what transpired...but she is obviously anti-authority..and you can tell she was very good at agitating the cop..its something she does a lot...with cops, boyfriends, family, strangers, etc ..she never actually stopped talking, not for a second.....when someone goes on and on and on like her it does tend to get you frustrated...I think we have all had a girlfriend or two like her Grin
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #131 on: July 28, 2015, 10:56:57 AM »

i love it how americans harp on about their "freedoms" and "constitutional rights", gotta keep their guns in case the government tries to run roughshod over them.

then a situation like this arises and all of a sudden 'americans' believe that a citizen should act subserviently when faced with a public servant who is overexerting his authority.

the cop had no right to ask her to put her cigarette out and no right to then escalate the situation because she refused. there was no reason at that point to order her out of the vehicle, the ticket had been written all that was left to do was give it to her and let her go.

he only ordered her out of the car because he was butthurt by her refusal to put out the cigarette. she spoke to him in a civil manner right up to and even beyond the point he started abusing his power. no one is obliged to like the police or act happy if they got stopped by them.

Here's the deal.. it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can be for freedoms.. and you can be reasonable when dealing with police. I've said it before, I'll say it for the ones who joined late..

When you are being detained by the police on a traffic stop, you are not free to go. There are certain "freedoms" the courts have determined you lose. There are certain ones you retain

You do not have the absolute right to light a cigarette and smoke. An officer isn't required to breath in noxious fumes during a traffic stop. An officer who is dealing with a belligerent person isn't required to allow that person to continue to hold an item that is 480 degrees when the officer will be passing something back and forth between them.

We can debate all day whether he should have sucked it up and just gave her the ticket. I probably would have unless I felt strongly she might burn me when I reached in. Ultimately, SHE brought made the decision to see where it went and even when he ordered her out which he has a legal right to do, she refused. With freedoms come personal responsibility. She amped up the encounter with her refusal to follow his direction.   If she felt he was out of line, overboard, she should have done what was asked then asked for a supervisor. She could have also filed a formal complaint. Not following his orders was not an option.

There is a time and a place to address a cop who is unprofessional.. on the street is always always always the worst option.     
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Thin Lizzy
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« Reply #132 on: July 28, 2015, 11:17:41 AM »

Here's the deal.. it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can be for freedoms.. and you can be reasonable when dealing with police. I've said it before, I'll say it for the ones who joined late..

When you are being detained by the police on a traffic stop, you are not free to go. There are certain "freedoms" the courts have determined you lose. There are certain ones you retain

You do not have the absolute right to light a cigarette and smoke. An officer isn't required to breath in noxious fumes during a traffic stop. An officer who is dealing with a belligerent person isn't required to allow that person to continue to hold an item that is 480 degrees when the officer will be passing something back and forth between them.

We can debate all day whether he should have sucked it up and just gave her the ticket. I probably would have unless I felt strongly she might burn me when I reached in. Ultimately, SHE brought made the decision to see where it went and even when he ordered her out which he has a legal right to do, she refused. With freedoms come personal responsibility. She amped up the encounter with her refusal to follow his direction.   If she felt he was out of line, overboard, she should have done what was asked then asked for a supervisor. She could have also filed a formal complaint. Not following his orders was not an option.

There is a time and a place to address a cop who is unprofessional.. on the street is always always always the worst option.     

It's not about how we would've handled the situation. Had I been in that car, it certainly wouldn't have ended that way. Then again, I'm a white male and,growing up, half of my friends fathers were cops.

That said, this is about how that cop handled that situation. He screwed up big time and will pay for it for the rest of his life.

I can assure you there will be a Federal Investigation of this, and in case you haven't seen our Attorney General:





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2Thick
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« Reply #133 on: July 30, 2015, 02:57:17 PM »

Oh well, it's not like she was gonna be the next Oprah Winfrey.  Undecided
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« Reply #134 on: July 30, 2015, 03:04:08 PM »

Oh well, it's not like she was gonna be the next Oprah Winfrey.  Undecided
If you knew how Oprah was when she was younger, nobody would have suspected that she would be where she was.
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #135 on: July 31, 2015, 03:24:47 AM »

i love it how americans harp on about their "freedoms" and "constitutional rights", gotta keep their guns in case the government tries to run roughshod over them.

then a situation like this arises and all of a sudden 'americans' believe that a citizen should act subserviently when faced with a public servant who is overexerting his authority.

the cop had no right to ask her to put her cigarette out and no right to then escalate the situation because she refused. there was no reason at that point to order her out of the vehicle, the ticket had been written all that was left to do was give it to her and let her go.

he only ordered her out of the car because he was butthurt by her refusal to put out the cigarette. she spoke to him in a civil manner right up to and even beyond the point he started abusing his power. no one is obliged to like the police or act happy if they got stopped by them.


Very well said. Agree with everything in your post.


Here's the deal.. it doesn't have to be one or the other. You can be for freedoms.. and you can be reasonable when dealing with police. I've said it before, I'll say it for the ones who joined late..

When you are being detained by the police on a traffic stop, you are not free to go. There are certain "freedoms" the courts have determined you lose. There are certain ones you retain

You do not have the absolute right to light a cigarette and smoke. An officer isn't required to breath in noxious fumes during a traffic stop. An officer who is dealing with a belligerent person isn't required to allow that person to continue to hold an item that is 480 degrees when the officer will be passing something back and forth between them.

We can debate all day whether he should have sucked it up and just gave her the ticket. I probably would have unless I felt strongly she might burn me when I reached in. Ultimately, SHE brought made the decision to see where it went and even when he ordered her out which he has a legal right to do, she refused. With freedoms come personal responsibility. She amped up the encounter with her refusal to follow his direction.   If she felt he was out of line, overboard, she should have done what was asked then asked for a supervisor. She could have also filed a formal complaint. Not following his orders was not an option.

There is a time and a place to address a cop who is unprofessional.. on the street is always always always the worst option.     


I don't know why it is ... but your posts and the way you come across ... well, it doesn't sit very well with me. Just sayin.

In fact, you come across as a person who's either a police officer themself ( and / or has a friend / family member that is one ) or a person who has had little to no experience with law enforcement.

Not trying to be rude here. Just stating my observations with the many posts of yours that I've read.
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bigmc
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« Reply #136 on: July 31, 2015, 03:30:45 AM »

the cop escalated the whole incident

obviously having a bad day

problem is when a cop has a bad day like that they can fuck someones life up

on the other side the woman should just have kept her mouth closed

no point antagonising someone with a taser and a gun
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T
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« Reply #137 on: July 31, 2015, 03:56:57 AM »

the cop escalated the whole incidentobviously having a bad day

problem is when a cop has a bad day like that they can fuck someones life up

on the other side the woman should just have kept her mouth closed

no point antagonising someone with a taser and a gun

Agreed, and he only did this after he went to the car with her ID and checked out who she was.
He then discovered she was a royal pain in the arse and decided to mess her around.

Not ethical but understandable.
You make yourself a target and people will take potshots at you.
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #138 on: July 31, 2015, 04:03:27 AM »

Agreed, and he only did this after he went to the car with her ID and checked out who she was.
He then discovered she was a royal pain in the arse and decided to mess her around.

Not ethical but understandable.
You make yourself a target and people will take potshots at you.


Not ethical, but UNDERSTANDABLE ??!! Care to explain that ?? Are you justifying the cop's actions ??

" Hey, man, it's totally cool for a cop to act a certain way. Especially when dealing with people that are labeled as " undesirables ". "
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Be There
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« Reply #139 on: July 31, 2015, 04:23:50 AM »


Not ethical, but UNDERSTANDABLE ??!! Care to explain that ?? Are you justifying the cop's actions ??

" Hey, man, it's totally cool for a cop to act a certain way. Especially when dealing with people that are labeled as " undesirables ". "

No, Im not justifying the cops actions, jesus what is it about peoples comprehension skills on this forum.

I can understand how someone would act that way when his colleagues have had their time wasted by some asswipe.

I have worked with people in law enforcement and I can tell you now, they treat persistant offenders differently than they do people they dont know.

Perhaps bigmc as a former police officer can back me on this.
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #140 on: July 31, 2015, 04:53:43 AM »

No, Im not justifying the cops actions, jesus what is it about peoples comprehension skills on this forum.

I can understand how someone would act that way when his colleagues have had their time wasted by some asswipe.

I have worked with people in law enforcement and I can tell you now, they treat persistant offenders differently than they do people they dont know.

Perhaps bigmc as a former police officer can back me on this.


First and foremost, my comprehension skills are just fine. Secondly, your above post is the biggest crock of shit I've ever read in my life. Or, at the very least, pretty damn close.

Cops are ... say it with me now ... public ... servants. Their job is to ... protect and serve. Not to bully ... not to push ... not to over exert their authority ... and, most certainly not, treat people that they judge and / or assume to be " asswhipes " like garbage.

Again, it is their job. We are to hold them in high regard. The are to hold themselves in high regard. And, in doing so, they are expected to show calmness and professionalism at all times. It does not matter if the so called person is an " asswhipe ". A police officer is expected to treat that person the same way they would anyone. Plain and simple. It is their job. And WE pay them to do it.


And, for your information ( and as a example ), I can name 3 times where I was pulled over and treated like donkey shit for no reason. And I was polite as could be. With a clean record as well. Wink
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Be There
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« Reply #141 on: July 31, 2015, 05:39:01 AM »


First and foremost, my comprehension skills are just fine. Secondly, your above post is the biggest crock of shit I've ever read in my life. Or, at the very least, pretty damn close.

Cops are ... say it with me now ... public ... servants. Their job is to ... protect and serve. Not to bully ... not to push ... not to over exert their authority ... and, most certainly not, treat people that they judge and / or assume to be " asswhipes ".

Again, it is their job. We are to hold them in high regard. The are to hold themselves in high regard. And, in doing so, they are expected to show calmness and professionalism at all times. It does not matter if the so called person is an " asswhipe ". A police officer is expected to treat that person the same way they would anyone. Plain and simple. It is their job. And WE pay them to do it.


And, for your information ( and as a example ), I can name 3 times where I was pulled over and treated like donkey shit for no reason. And I was polite as could be. With a clean record as well. Wink

You are aware cops are human beings right?

Human beings are genetically flawed.
I live in the real world, I dont live in some make believe world where everything is all fine and dandy.

I myself have never had an issue with a police officer where it went tits up, they have always responded in a way that was appropriate to the situation.
People who have issues with cops almost always have initiated the situation when you press them to elaborate, Im not goping to in your case as you come across as holier than thou on here so I dont need to.
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #142 on: July 31, 2015, 06:31:55 AM »

You are aware cops are human beings right?

Human beings are genetically flawed.
I live in the real world, I dont live in some make believe world where everything is all fine and dandy.

I myself have never had an issue with a police officer where it went tits up, they have always responded in a way that was appropriate to the situation.
People who have issues with cops almost always have initiated the situation when you press them to elaborate, Im not goping to in your case as you come across as holier than thou on here so I dont need to.

............... * sigh *

Well aware police officers are human beings. Yes, they make mistakes. Conducting oneself properly is not asking too much of a human being. Is it ? Doing your JOB , generally, is not asking too much of a human being. Is it ?  Especially when your job is one of pride, that many wear like a BADGE of honor. Again, we hold police officers in high regard, as their job is too, ONCE AGAIN, protect and serve. And only the " best " are chosen to do that job.

And please don't assume I live in a make believe world, BT. I, much like yourself, in the real world as well. Just with my own set of beliefs, opinions, and experiences. Which, OBVIOUSLY lol, differ from yours by a WHOLE LOT lol. I dare say that you are sheltered in some ways ...

In regards to other areas of your post, I, too, have seen police officers respond appropriately in various scenarios. But, I've also seen the opposite ... them abandoning all logic, and running on pure ego and emotions. Very dangerous, given that they posess weapons and the like, as I'm sure you would agree ?

And the whole " People who have issues ... " is such bullshit. It's words like that, that come out of your mouth, that lead me to believe that you haven't really experienced much.

And again with your ASSuming, assuming that I am holier than art thou. Far from it, my friend. I'm not even sure how you come to a conclusion like that. Because I stated that I've been treated like shit for no reason by law enforcement ? I know many that have. Are we ALL " holier than art thou " ? Perhaps, we are all lying ?


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Be There
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« Reply #143 on: July 31, 2015, 12:33:50 PM »

............... * sigh *

Well aware police officers are human beings. Yes, they make mistakes. Conducting oneself properly is not asking too much of a human being. Is it ? Doing your JOB , generally, is not asking too much of a human being. Is it ?  Especially when your job is one of pride, that many wear like a BADGE of honor. Again, we hold police officers in high regard, as their job is too, ONCE AGAIN, protect and serve. And only the " best " are chosen to do that job.

And please don't assume I live in a make believe world, BT. I, much like yourself, in the real world as well. Just with my own set of beliefs, opinions, and experiences. Which, OBVIOUSLY lol, differ from yours by a WHOLE LOT lol. I dare say that you are sheltered in some ways ...

In regards to other areas of your post, I, too, have seen police officers respond appropriately in various scenarios. But, I've also seen the opposite ... them abandoning all logic, and running on pure ego and emotions. Very dangerous, given that they posess weapons and the like, as I'm sure you would agree ?

And the whole " People who have issues ... " is such bullshit. It's words like that, that come out of your mouth, that lead me to believe that you haven't really experienced much.

And again with your ASSuming, assuming that I am holier than art thou. Far from it, my friend. I'm not even sure how you come to a conclusion like that. Because I stated that I've been treated like shit for no reason by law enforcement ? I know many that have. Are we ALL " holier than art thou " ? Perhaps, we are all lying ?



I take it you have never had a position of authority ever in your life
Even managers in business treat fuckwits who work for them differently.

I worked in a position where i was responsible for security, I knew the regular assholes who caused trouble and gave them short shrift, why try and be civil and reasonable when you know from experience it doesn't work
I meet people for the first time and was polite and courteous, if they weren't, they they moved on.
Next time I wasn't polite and courteous , they just go immediately.

And yoiu think its me thats sheltered?
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #144 on: Today at 03:39:21 AM »

I take it you have never had a position of authority ever in your life
Even managers in business treat fuckwits who work for them differently.

I worked in a position where i was responsible for security, I knew the regular assholes who caused trouble and gave them short shrift, why try and be civil and reasonable when you know from experience it doesn't work
I meet people for the first time and was polite and courteous, if they weren't, they they moved on.
Next time I wasn't polite and courteous , they just go immediately.

And yoiu think its me thats sheltered?


I managed a large gym  ( roughly 700 members or so ) from the time I was 19 -24. Then I went on to become a Union President of a transportation company for roughly 4 year or so. Both jobs required me to deal and manage all types of people and all walks of life.

I'm sorry, you were saying something ?
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« Reply #145 on: Today at 06:22:24 AM »


Not ethical, but UNDERSTANDABLE ??!! Care to explain that ?? Are you justifying the cop's actions ??

" Hey, man, it's totally cool for a cop to act a certain way. Especially when dealing with people that are labeled as " undesirables ". "

He's not defending it (the behavior) but it is understandable WHY it happened.
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #146 on: Today at 06:25:43 AM »

He's not defending it (the behavior) but it is understandable WHY it happened.


Well, that I understand PERFECTLY and agree with 100 %. Smiley
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Kwon_2
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« Reply #147 on: Today at 06:31:13 AM »

When dealing with the police (regardless of where you are in the world), try stay calm and do not try to agitate someone unnecessarily.

Try not to puch any buttons.


It can be a very smooth affair if you comply (within the boundaries of the law).
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The_Iron_Disciple
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« Reply #148 on: Today at 01:21:20 PM »

When dealing with the police (regardless of where you are in the world), try stay calm and do not try to agitate someone unnecessarily.

Try not to puch any buttons.


It can be a very smooth affair if you comply (within the boundaries of the law).


Can be difficult not to agitate someone who is already agitated to begin with, my friend. As has been seen in various YouTube videos regarding law enforcement.

But I get the gist of what your sayin.
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« Reply #149 on: Today at 01:37:22 PM »

I agree with your point..I too think he was butthurt over what transpired...but she is obviously anti-authority..and you can tell she was very good at agitating the cop..its something she does a lot...with cops, boyfriends, family, strangers, etc ..she never actually stopped talking, not for a second.....when someone goes on and on and on like her it does tend to get you frustrated...I think we have all had a girlfriend or two like her Grin


Very objective post Andre.


Also, to all of you blaming the cop, I will say it again, this cop being a dick was not the reason she killed herself. Mental illness was the reason.
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