Sting

[The Showstoppa]

Sometimes I have to remind myself that Sting and "Ultimate Jim" came up at the same time under the same trainers.
Total opposites insofar as skills and attitude.

they should bring back The Blade Runners !!!!!!

[tu_holmes]

4th or 5th greatest of all time? So he's ahead of Bret, Taker, Macho, 3:16, and Mr. Wrestlemania?

Hell yes he is. Taker is all gimmick and almost no skill.

Bret? Out of the game while Sting is still going strong.

Austin? Really? He's all gimmick too. A great gimmick and fun to listen to. But he's not some great wrestler.

He was better as a Hollywood blonde. Do you remember Ringmaster?

[funk51]

Hell yes he is. Taker is all gimmick and almost no skill.

Bret? Out of the game while Sting is still going strong.

Austin? Really? He's all gimmick too. A great gimmick and fun to listen to. But he's not some great wrestler.

He was better as a Hollywood blonde. Do you remember Ringmaster?

taker not that great that walking on rope thing old skool not very impressive. he's good for one great move a year now his dive over the top rope saved for WM. bret hart was never that greatthat pathetic elbow off the ropes  not very impressive.austin lamest punches in game i know he has bad elbows and shoulders. HHH same 5 moves every match ad infinitum doesn't make a great wrestler. karl gotch now there was a wrestler.

[The Showstoppa]

My top 5, in no particular order....

Flair
Michaels
Macho
Steamboat
Benoit


In their prime, they all put on great matches EVERYTIME out.... even with opponents who often couldn't work for shit.

[Montague]

taker not that great that walking on rope thing old skool not very impressive. he's good for one great move a year now his dive over the top rope saved for WM. bret hart was never that greatthat pathetic elbow off the ropes  not very impressive.austin lamest punches in game i know he has bad elbows and shoulders. HHH same 5 moves every match ad infinitum doesn't make a great wrestler. karl gotch now there was a wrestler.

While I readilly admit that the above were not "the best ever," I don't share the harshness of your critiques.
You guys are f'n brutal!

Funk, if you liked Karl Gotch, I'm curious to know what you thought of the Malenko's (from a technical standpoint), as they were both trained by Gotch.
He was always quick to point that out, too.
I think he was very proud of those two.

If you like the old shooters, search for some Billy Robinson footage.
He spent some time up in MN, but I consider his best success to have been in Japan.

[The Showstoppa]

While I readilly admit that the above were not "the best ever," I don't share the harshness of your critiques.
You guys are f'n brutal!

Funk, if you liked Karl Gotch, I'm curious to know what you thought of the Malenko's (from a technical standpoint), as they were both trained by Gotch.
He was always quick to point that out, too.
I think he was very proud of those two.

If you like the old shooters, search for some Billy Robinson footage.
He spent some time up in MN, but I consider his best success to have been in Japan.

I remember Robinson making a couple of short passes thru the mid-atlantic.  I've also read that he was one of the most hated guys in the locker room for taking liberties in-ring with guys.  Complete prick, but nobody wanted to f with him.

[Andy Griffin]

My top 5, in no particular order....

Flair
Michaels
Macho
Steamboat
Benoit


In their prime, they all put on great matches EVERYTIME out.... even with opponents who often couldn't work for shit.

I have always liked Steamboad-Flair matches best. 

I probably mentioned this before, but I definitely agree about Flair putting people over.  Once he wrestled GEORGE SOUTH, and made him look so good that I thought George was going to get some kind of push...until he was squashed the following week by "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert.

[The Showstoppa]

I have always liked Steamboad-Flair matches best. 

I probably mentioned this before, but I definitely agree about Flair putting people over.  Once he wrestled GEORGE SOUTH, and made him look so good that I thought George was going to get some kind of push...until he was squashed the following week by "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert.

The Flair-Steamboat fued was great both in the mid-atlantic and then the WCW.  I remember seeing them wrestle many, many times in M-A.  The matches were always 5 star affairs that usually went an hour and you were always on the edge of your seat the whole time.

And you are right about Flair, he was the THE BEST at putting other talent over.  Nobody else is even close in my book.

[Montague]

I remember Robinson making a couple of short passes thru the mid-atlantic.  I've also read that he was one of the most hated guys in the locker room for taking liberties in-ring with guys.  Complete prick, but nobody wanted to f with him.

Yeah, Billy was a tough bastard.
He could (and would) mess guys up in the ring.

Often, though, that kind of reputation backfired on a guy.
Many promoters were reluctant to put belts on legit toughies because it may be rather difficult to get that belt back if the guy doesn't cooperate.
The same concept applied to them even working with the champ.

Karl Gotch experienced this phenomenon.


I think that truly tough guys in wrestling is becoming a thing of the past.
Admittedly, I don't follow too much anymore.

Is there anyone today you guys would say is on the same level of toughness as, say:
Harley Race,
Steiners,
Haku,
RW's,
APA
Dynamite,
etc.

[littleguns]

I cant blame sting for standing by his morals of not coming to WWE.......Goldberg and Steiner are 2 examples of brining in Maineventers and squashing them.

If he was smart he would have asked for 1 match, $5 million then set off into the sunset....

[GraniteCityDon]

IMO Sting was an excellent draw, a popular champion and someone molded to challenge Hulkamania. Unfortunately he does not, and never has rivaled the popularity of Hogan in his prime. He was one of the most recognisable people in the world - the W.O.R.L.D. - standing along side the likes of MJ and could have pretty much done anything he wanted to.

Bottom line is that a century from now a few hardcore's will recall Sting for one reason or another whereas Hogan may very well have a 30ft statue in Washington striking a pose to signify America's strength. Sting never made anyone a billionaire.....

[GraniteCityDon]

Yeah, Billy was a tough bastard.
He could (and would) mess guys up in the ring.

Often, though, that kind of reputation backfired on a guy.
Many promoters were reluctant to put belts on legit toughies because it may be rather difficult to get that belt back if the guy doesn't cooperate.
The same concept applied to them even working with the champ.

Karl Gotch experienced this phenomenon.


I think that truly tough guys in wrestling is becoming a thing of the past.
Admittedly, I don't follow too much anymore.

Is there anyone today you guys would say is on the same level of toughness as, say:
Harley Race,
Steiners,
Haku,
RW's,
APA
Dynamite,
etc.

There was Finlay, however aside from that today's guys are all pampered sweethearts who hardly have to lift a finger and would likely have their arses handed to them in many a bar. Angle is supposedly legit tough however, a real hard b*stard, and although its subjective i believe Lesnar can be spoken among those names with unshakable confidence.

[The Showstoppa]

There was Finlay, however aside from that today's guys are all pampered sweethearts who hardly have to lift a finger and would likely have their arses handed to them in many a bar. Angle is supposedly legit tough however, a real hard b*stard, and although its subjective i believe Lesnar can be spoken among those names with unshakable confidence.

I'd put Steve Regal in there too.

[Montague]

There was Finlay, however aside from that today's guys are all pampered sweethearts who hardly have to lift a finger and would likely have their arses handed to them in many a bar. Angle is supposedly legit tough however, a real hard b*stard, and although its subjective i believe Lesnar can be spoken among those names with unshakable confidence.

Supposedly, Angle & Lesnar had a little "friendly" backstage competition once, in which Angle cleaned up pretty quick with him.

[Montague]

I'd put Steve Regal in there too.

Good call.
Didn't Regal train with some of the same shooters that schooled Dynamite early on?

I know that Foley consulted Regal to write the history of the fictional character in Foley's novel, Tietam Brown, who was trained by the Wigan coal miners.

[GraniteCityDon]

Supposedly, Angle & Lesnar had a little "friendly" backstage competition once, in which Angle cleaned up pretty quick with him.

I'm pretty sure that was an amateur wrestling match, and to be fair even though Lesnar has excellent pedigree its no match for Kurt's (interesting point of note: both Mark Coleman & Mark Kerr (MMA fighters) handled Kurt in the amateurs).

Angle should have done MMA in his prime, he would have been a sight to see.

[Montague]

Angle should have done MMA in his prime, he would have been a sight to see.

I suspect your'e right.
What do you make of his Olympic bid?

[GraniteCityDon]

Nothing more than publicity, perhaps on the back of the GSP talk. If he was that serious about it he would have done it years ago and i feel that, whilst he's still in phenomenal shape, he is too long in the tooth for such a bid. Surely the U.S. has the necessary personnel in their ranks to fill a team without the need for a man retired for 15 years?

[Montague]

Nothing more than publicity, perhaps on the back of the GSP talk. If he was that serious about it he would have done it years ago and i feel that, whilst he's still in phenomenal shape, he is too long in the tooth for such a bid. Surely the U.S. has the necessary personnel in their ranks to fill a team without the need for a man retired for 15 years?

Those are pretty much my sentiments.
Specifically, I see it as a long-shot that will draw attention & maybe even a little "legitimacy" to the TNA product.

If, on the off-chance he actually qualifies, both he and TNA would benefit beyond their wildest dreams.

To me, it seems like a situation in which both parties will either win a little...or win HUGE!!!
Either way, there is definitely a payoff.

[LurkerNoMore]

Arguably the 4th or 5th greatest wrestler of all time. Behind Hogan, Flair, and maybe HHH.

WTF???  No way in hell does HHH even break the Top 20 of greatest wrestlers.

[LurkerNoMore]

I like Sting.

I have marked for Sting all the way from his UWF days.  Back when he couldn't wrestle his way out of a paper bag and was learning as he went each week.  The first time he unleashed his Stinger Splash in his WCCW debut at Starccade in the 6 man tag match, people all over the building (was watching it in a PPV admission crowd) popped like none other.

That being said, he has become the worst rip off artist of all time.  And for the record, he did NOT rip off the Crow character. He ripped off the Fake Sting character.  When the nWo brought out their fake Sting, his face paint was going to be black and white, the nWo colors.   After a few house shows the real Sting decided that he would rather have the look and pulled the prima donna card with the higher ups.  Since the fake sting was basically an unknown guy named Jeff Farmer who only had wrestled under a Ranger gimmick in the past, it was given to him and later Jeff was shipped off to Japan for the nWo charter there.  Where he blew crowds away.  They loved him more than the real Sting.  And no wonder.  He had a better body and displayed an arsenal of moves that went beyond the 6-7 moves that the real Sting did over and over.  After this was when Sting took what he had and blatantly copied the rest of the Crows look, and mannerisms. 

Now Sting is once again trying to revive another character that is years old.   As if the old padded body suit wasn't bad enough.

[tu_holmes]

WTF???  No way in hell does HHH even break the Top 20 of greatest wrestlers.

I think we will have to just disagree on that.

I could put a lot of other people as better "wrestlers", but longevity and being "over", along with skill set, it's hard to argue against HHH in my opinion.

[Montague]

Everybody's got their opinion.
At the end of the day...no matter how you look at it...it's still just guys in spandex pretending to fight.

[LurkerNoMore]

HHH is one dimensional.  Ego tripper who grew stale in every regards six months after his DX peak.  He would still be bowing and wearing knee high boots if it were not for Shawn.

[tu_holmes]

HHH is one dimensional.  Ego tripper who grew stale in every regards six months after his DX peak.  He would still be bowing and wearing knee high boots if it were not for Shawn.

You will get no argument from me that The Showstopper is possibly the 3rd greatest wrestler of all time, but it doesn't take away from HHHs success.