Well, I suppose when you put it in those terms it looks complex and odd; although, Christ’s sacrifice on the cross wasn’t about God the Son, God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. The sacrifice was for us. Christ, the lamb worthy to be slain, the one without sin became the perfect sacrifice and payment for all of our sin. Did he have to die? No. He could’ve called to his side any multitude of angels and destroyed the Sanhedrin, the Roman guard and the screaming crowd demanding his life be taken. Instead, he chose to sacrifice himself for you, for me and for everyone else and pay the debt for our sin thereby providing all who believe the gift of life.
But why was a sacrifice even
necessary? Remember, this "debt" is supposedly owed to God who then turns around and collects it from (in essence) himself! Why would God not say "all is forgiven! It is done!" and lo, our "debt" is paid. I understand that this might be a difficult question vis-a-vis 'not knowing the mind of God' but I'm sure you'll agree it's enough to give anyone pause.
I believe that Satan is released after the conclusion of the millennial kingdom so that those born during that thousand years can once again make a genuine choice to accept or reject God once and for all. Why a thousand year kingdom? I don’t know, but again he wants the choice to be ours.
The length of time is irrelevant to me. What I find interesting is the notion of "I'm here, I defeat evil and all is well. But wait! There's more. I have now let evil loose again for one more final battle." It just sounds like a UFC promotion, to me.
Now, I'll tell you why I don't quite 'buy' your answer (pardon the term)... If we assume God created everything and the Bible is truth, then clearly God intended for a certain total number of people -- let's call it x -- to be born. So, he could have achieved the same result (i.e. people "choosing" to accept or reject God) by simply postponing the Second Coming for a thousand years.
This idea assumes that God both knows all and influences your choices and that simply isn’t the case. God can absolutely be all-knowing and still give you the freedom to choose and honor you choices. He doesn’t influence your choice or predetermine it.
How can he "
absolutely be all-knowing and still give [me] the freedom to choose"? Free will and omniscience are irreconcilable.
If God is omniscient then he unerringly knows what I will choose to do then my choice isn't free (although I might *
think* that it is free - but that's not the same thing as actual freedom). If this is the case, nothing we do matters: we're puppets, moved by invisible string according to a script.
If, on the other hand, my choice is, actually, free, then God simply can't know what I will choose; ergo he isn't omniscient and omniscience is a key attribute of the Christian God.
Further, I believe can make a square peg fit into a round hole if he so chooses. How does he do this? LOL, that I can’t say.
That's an interesting choice of words -- you
believe that he can do that. Belief is fine, and sometimes it can even be rational. But not always. While anyone of us could, given a big enough hammer, fit a square peg into a round hole, it is
impossible to make a square circle. If you believe, contrary to logic and the nature of a 'circle' and a 'square', that someone can actually make a square circle, then there's really nothing else to say.
LOL, well, for a believer God will basically say that about our sin provided we’re willing to confess our sins and repent of them. If I never disciplined my child and I continually allowed her to break dishes or get into Mommy’s purse and steal makeup and just said, “I love you honey so all is forgiven,” I’d be doing her a disservice by not requiring her to first recognize her wrongdoing. Parents that truly love their children look at their sweet little faces and still discipline them for their actions, educate them about what they’ve done wrong and then help them develop an appreciation for the difference between right and wrong and turn from that wrong. Again, it’s not about the development of the parent, it’s about the development of the child. God knows the contents of our hearts. He knows the motivations behind our actions and whether or thoughts are genuine and pure. If we approach him with a truly repentant heart we will be forgiven.
That's an awesome example and I am glad that you brought it up. Unfortunately, it's not quite accurate. First of all, when a parent punishes a child in the manner you suggest, they do it personally and they usually explain why. God never personally disciplined you nor does he explain why discipline is necessary. Any discipline you will get from him directly, will come after you're dead -- when it's too late to change.
Second, you say that simply saying "I love you honey so all is forgiven" would be to do the child a disservice. But isn't that
exactly what you claim the Christian God does? It doesn't matter what I do, as long as I accept Jesus Christ, all is forgiven.
Again, God wants us to choose him as he has chosen us. He takes no pleasure in the deaths of those that reject him, but he honors their choice to reject him. I’m sure you’ve heard it before, but C.S. Lewis said, “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'”
C.S. Lewis was great at wordplay. But there's still a lingering question: according to you God knows you'll be saved and I won't, before we were even "created." So he knowingly created me knowing I'd reject him. Why?
God reveals himself to those who believe and yes we must have faith; although, the man in the story is me and I have no reason to lie. I share because I want others to experience the love of God like I have.
I don't think you have a reason to lie - nor did I want to suggest that. I apologize if it came across that way. Nor am saying that the experience you had wasn't meaningful to
you; please don't misunderstand. My point was that people interpret things based on their own personal beliefs and experiences. Someone who believes in eastern medicine or new-age stuff, might very well have credited unblocking the chakras, or releasing the chi or somesuch. Someone who was born and raised in a Muslim environment might have very well credited Allah. A Catholic might very well credit intercession by a Saint.
But not all those interpretations can be right. You are, by virtue of your belief, saying all those other people, whose interpretations of their own experience lead them to a different conclusion, are wrong. They might, very well, say the same about your interpretation. How can we tell who's right and who's wrong in this scenario? The answer is we cannot.
That's why personal experiences aren't useful in this context. You see a miraculous recovery. I see advanced medical knowledge and resources, good doctors and a bit of luck.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to side step anything…I didn’t understand your question. You lead with a very general “What’s with original sin” and then followed up with “how can there be sin without volition”. I thought you were drawing the two questions into one concerning those folks that can’t make decisions for themselves because they’re simply unable. I threw in a bit of scripture for color, but addressed what I thought was your question.
No worries - I didn't think you did it on purpose.
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me," This is more in reference to learned, sinful behavior passed from generation to generation. It’s about the actions of parents that influence their children. For example, children that witness drug use by parents are likely to adopt those same sinful tendencies. Although, within that same book it states that, "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin." In essence, it’s up to each generation to draw a close to the learned, sinful behavior of the previous generation, but regardless we are individually responsible for our own sins.
Then we agree that it's "unfair" to visit the sins of the father on the children. But then how do you reconcile that with the "original sin" that is "inherent" in us because of Adam? That's why I mentioned sin without volition in the context of original sin -- we are supposedly
born sinners, for something that we didn't do and was completely outside of our control.
