Ronnie Coleman in his prime VS royce gracie in a bar fight - who wins

[purenaturalstrength]

You ignored the Akebono example. Akebono way, way stronger than Royce. Way, way bigger. Still loses.

You've never trained with real fighters  or ever been in a real fight, have you? And I mean a real fight if you even know what that is.

i adressed akebono

he is a washed up piece of shit with low strength levels and an inefficient way of fighting

[RC Money]

BTW, Coleman himself was asked, while still in his competitive years during a trip to Brasil, how he would do against 185 lb UFC fighter, Vitor Belfort. He just responded with his jolly laugh and said he would get his ass kicked.

But, of course, you know better than Coleman how he would do in a fight than Coleman himself.

How long ago was this? and Vitor weighs around 210 even when he fights at 85.

[pellius]

i have no clue who vitor belfort is


we are talking about royce gracie here


and coleman said that for obvious reasons

The fact that you have no clue as to who Belfort is, an MMA fighter who has been around since the mid 1990s,shows that you don't follow the sport and therefore have no clue as to the type of training and skill set a professional MMA fighter has.

So you are just a gimmick and a troll?

My work is done here.

[purenaturalstrength]

The fact that you have no clue as to who Belfort is, an MMA fighter who has been around since the mid 1990s,shows that you don't follow the sport and therefore have no clue as to the type of training and skill set a professional MMA fighter has.

So you are just a gimmick and a troll?

My work is done here.

another mma fan who thinks martial art skill make somebody invulnerable to 315lbs juiced to hell black guys

[oldtimer1]

Pellius, These guys that think lifting weights alone makes you a fighter don't have a clue.  It's like the guys that say a ufc fighter would get killed in a bar fight. As if training to be fighter is somehow a liability in a real fight. No rules in a bar fight also go for the trained fighter.

When I was training with Renzo Gracie and Craig Kukuk  back in the day I would see the same thing over an over again.  A new student big guy would come in and they would have a submission ground fight against a little guy who has skills.  Some were so humiliated that they never came back again.  They walked in struting and would leave with their tail between their legs.

To the guys that think lifting alone will prepare you to fight should go to their nearest boxing gym or MMA dojo.  Get in the ring or the mats and see what happens.

[purenaturalstrength]

Pellius, These guys that think lifting weights alone makes you a fighter don't have a clue.  It's like the guys that say a ufc fighter would get killed in a bar fight. As if training to be fighter is somehow a liability in a real fight. No rules in a bar fight also go for the trained fighter.

When I was training with Renzo Gracie and Craig Kukuk  back in the day I would see the same thing over an over again.  A new student big guy would come in and they would have a submission ground fight against a little guy who has skills.  Some were so humiliated that they never came back again.  They walked in struting and would leave with their tail between their legs.

To the guys that think lifting alone will prepare you to fight should go to their nearest boxing gym or MMA dojo.  Get in the ring or the mats and see what happens.

another dojo stud who is avoiding reality

[RC Money]

another mma fan who thinks martial art skill make somebody invulnerable to 315lbs juiced to hell black guys

Not invulnerable but certainly give them a huge percentage advantage, of course flukes and anything has the possibility of happening.

Training for fighting is insurmountably better for actual fighting scenariors than lifting weights to look big and avoid fights.. any 185+ bjj purple belt and up or high ncaa level wrestles probably beats the shit out of just about any pro bb with not combat training.

[oldtimer1]

Purenatural, you're living in a fantasy if you think pro bodybuilders would do well in a fight with a pro like Royce Gracie.

[Nails]

Then again

[Fortress]

BTW, Coleman himself was asked, while still in his competitive years during a trip to Brasil, how he would do against 185 lb UFC fighter, Vitor Belfort. He just responded with his jolly laugh and said he would get his ass kicked.

But, of course, you know better than Coleman how he would do in a fight than Coleman himself.

Naturally this is what he is going to say. What a lame thing to post ... as if it says anything.

[Fortress]

These guys that think lifting weights alone makes you a fighter don't have a clue.  

Of course lifting weights doesn't make you a good fighter. However, the attribute of immense size and strength is hugely advantageous to one who becomes involved in a fight. And in a REAL FIGHT = an even greater advantage.

I could say the same thing to you, but in reverse: These guys who think training as a MMA/boxer/whatever alone makes them capable of beating someone much, much larger and who is in possession of extreme superior strength and power don't have a clue.

Fact is, everything in your "arsenal" is another card in your deck. If you fight technically, great; and if you are massive and hugely strong, great. Outside of this, there are too many variables.

Oh, and, yes, I have trained in the fighting arts and I have been inlvoved in NUMEROUS fights, both in public and as a doorman/bouncer for 20 years. I also have trained with weights for 26 years and weigh 295 pounds and can move very well, thank you. No "gassing" here, either.  

[Parker]

I can only repeat, Ronnie gets owned.  Fuck the guy can't even run with swimfins on without falling over.

fixed

[purenaturalstrength]

Of course lifting weights doesn't make you a good fighter. However, the attribute of immense size and strength is hugely advantageous to one who becomes involved in a fight. And in a REAL FIGHT = an even greater advantage.

I could say the same thing to you, but in reverse: These guys who think training as a MMA/boxer/whatever alone makes them capable of beating someone much, much larger and who is in possession of extreme superior strength and power don't have a clue.

Fact is, everything in your "arsenal" is another card in your deck. If you fight technically, great; and if you are massive and hugely strong, great. Outside of this, there are too many variables.

Oh, and, yes, I have trained in the fighting arts and I have been inlvoved in NUMEROUS fights, both in public and as a doorman/bouncer for 20 years. I also have trained with weights for 26 years and weigh 295 pounds and can move very well, thank you. No "gassing" here, either.  

this guy knows what's up

here is another clue to the mma boyz

real fights are sudden outbursts of extreme aggression, and rarely last over 30 seconds, so quit using the conditioning arguement

[RC Money]

Well then you should know that looking strong is different from being strong (strength that matters) no matter what is being lifted in the weight room, weight is weight however and that is indeed undisputable.

[purenaturalstrength]

Well then you should know that looking strong is different from being strong (strength that matters) no matter what is being lifted in the weight room, weight is weight however and that is indeed undisputable.

ronnie in his prime = extreme strength

most of what is documented isn't even in the off season, but 4 weeks out of the olympia

[Parker]

 I repeat, let Royce take away a bowl of grits away from Ronnie...and see how it ends up...

[che]

Hahaha, Ronnie can't even tie his own shoe laces and  he needs help taking off  his shirt .

[purenaturalstrength]

I repeat, let Royce take away a bowl of grits away from Ronnie...and see how it ends up...

royce would jump on a bike and cry out for arnold's help like so

[Nails]

But now ... If Ronnie is an officer in Texas... i'm sure he had some form of hand to hand combat training from the academy that would give him some skills in the art of ass kicking

[Fortress]

real fights are sudden outbursts of extreme aggression, and rarely last over 30 seconds, so quit using the conditioning arguement

From MUCH experience, both as witness and participant, this is very true.

[pellius]

Pellius, These guys that think lifting weights alone makes you a fighter don't have a clue.  It's like the guys that say a ufc fighter would get killed in a bar fight. As if training to be fighter is somehow a liability in a real fight. No rules in a bar fight also go for the trained fighter.

When I was training with Renzo Gracie and Craig Kukuk  back in the day I would see the same thing over an over again.  A new student big guy would come in and they would have a submission ground fight against a little guy who has skills.  Some were so humiliated that they never came back again.  They walked in struting and would leave with their tail between their legs.

To the guys that think lifting alone will prepare you to fight should go to their nearest boxing gym or MMA dojo.  Get in the ring or the mats and see what happens.

Craig Kukuk? That IS back in the day. I remember him before he moved back East to be with Renzo. It was when the original Gracie Academy opened up in Torrance, CA. He was quite a beast and was Rorion's first Black Belt and I believe the first American Black Belt ever.

I usually avoid these threads because it's pointless and it's already been beaten to death. But it kept popping up to the top so I got in on it to see if anything new was brought up. Many bodybuilders are very insecure people. They got into it because of their insecurities. The world is still ruled by strength and force and if you look strong you get more respect (and willing women). Charles Atlas built his whole career on that concept. But bodybuilders build up their bodies to AVOID a fight. They hope, and with good reason, that if they look strong they won't be picked on or challenge. And for the most part they are right. Spike and Goink here freely admit to not being fighters but no rational man is going to single them out for combat. But I have found that bodybuilders, generally speaking, are not fighters. And certainly training as a bodybuilder has nothing to do with training as a fighter.

That being said, all else being equal, the bigger and stronger person wins. As far as I know, Coleman does not train in hand to hand combat. So I believe his considerable advantage in strength would not be enough. Guys like PureNatural have no experience with a trained fighter and have no idea what they would do to him. They watch the UFC and it just looks like a couple of guys brawling. They don't see the skill and technique. It's just like when I first walked into the Gracie Academy and they show me their taped. It didn't look so special to me. It's only after I had some training when I went back to watch the same tape I could see so much that I missed before. It's like when I first saw Pumping Iron. To me, they all looked the same. Just massive muscles. How could you tell who was better than the other. It's only years later after  I became more familiar and educated in the sport that I could then see how much more superior Arnold was to the other.

The only reason I decided to join, and this was back in 1991 before MMA and UFC, was that they always won. They beat the crap out of me. Guys would walk in all the time to challenge them to win the $10,000 grand they offered. No ring, no cage, no gloves. Just fight. And the Gracies always won. That very next night I came back to watch scrawny Royce beat the crap out of another clueless challenger much bigger than he was and who was a Black Belt in something. But of course no bodybuilders ever showed up to claim the prize. When push comes to Mata Leao they stick to flexing in the mirror.

And that's just how it should be. Leave the fighting to fighters.
 

[pellius]

Naturally this is what he is going to say. What a lame thing to post ... as if it says anything.

Of course if Ronnie said he would crush him you'd hop on that. What do you think a Craig Titus would say? I take Ronnie at his word. And that says a lot.

The only thing lame would be what would happen to you if you went a few minutes going all out with a highly trained MMA fighter like Royce.

[pellius]

i adressed akebono

he is a washed up piece of shit with low strength levels and an inefficient way of fighting

Please educate us on what you consider an efficient way of fighting. Fact is Akebono had more training and more experience in fighting than Coleman ever did and he is three years younger than Royce, who is always considered washed up.

But it's true that Akebono was never did well in MMA. Neither would Coleman.

[pellius]

Of course lifting weights doesn't make you a good fighter. However, the attribute of immense size and strength is hugely advantageous to one who becomes involved in a fight. And in a REAL FIGHT = an even greater advantage.

I could say the same thing to you, but in reverse: These guys who think training as a MMA/boxer/whatever alone makes them capable of beating someone much, much larger and who is in possession of extreme superior strength and power don't have a clue.

Fact is, everything in your "arsenal" is another card in your deck. If you fight technically, great; and if you are massive and hugely strong, great. Outside of this, there are too many variables.

Oh, and, yes, I have trained in the fighting arts and I have been inlvoved in NUMEROUS fights, both in public and as a doorman/bouncer for 20 years. I also have trained with weights for 26 years and weigh 295 pounds and can move very well, thank you. No "gassing" here, either.  

Fair post. The difference is that you are a bodybuilding and a trained fighter. As far as I know, Coleman is not. I would be far more willing to concede that you would beat Royce in a street fight than Coleman.

[cephissus]

all else being equal[/b], the bigger and stronger person wins. As far as I know, Coleman does not train in hand to hand combat. So I believe his considerable advantage in strength would not be enough. Guys like PureNatural have no experience with a trained fighter and have no idea what they would do to him. They watch the UFC and it just looks like a couple of guys brawling. They don't see the skill and technique. It's just like when I first walked into the Gracie Academy and they show me their taped. It didn't look so special to me. It's only after I had some training when I went back to watch the same tape I could see so much that I missed before. It's like when I first saw Pumping Iron. To me, they all looked the same. Just massive muscles. How could you tell who was better than the other. It's only years later after  I became more familiar and educated in the sport that I could then see how much more superior Arnold was to the other.

Good post pellius.  I remember a similar process occurred in me when I started reading bodybuilding boards.  At first they all looked the same, but that quickly changed... just the other day one a guy I know was looking at a promo shot of Henry Cavill in the new superman movie, decked out in a muscle suit.  When I told him, he quickly posted one of his many shirtless pics to prove me wrong -- "Dude, that's his real body!"  It boggled my mind how he couldn't see the obvious differences in muscle shape and proportion between the two pictures.