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Author Topic: Vince Basile thinks he can get back in shape like he did  (Read 14164 times)
Ropo
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« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2011, 12:13:09 AM »

To reply to chess. I picked biceps because it is a muscle that intermediate and advanced trainees seldom get sore no matter what they do. That is the point. Get them sore and you will grow.

You could come to my gym and use my biceps-supinator invention. It is the only one in the world. You would need some instructions about how to use it properly and effectively. It puts tension on the flexing function and the twisting or supinating function of the biceps. This can be a brutal workout if done properly.


Is there any page or site where I can see those inventions of yours, because that machine looks great. Not expedient, but great. You seem to be master of the overcomplicated machines, and those I like, because I prefer to make machines as simple as possible. We are kind of at the opposite end of this subject and just as yourself, I have been building prototypes as well  Smiley
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« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2011, 12:19:33 AM »

Why is the text in purple and why so long winded?
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« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2011, 12:26:27 AM »

Here is my experience re triceps. You have to do the best exercise you can that is both effective and safe. So what do you do? Forget pressdowns except for a warmup. I don't do them any more.
When you put a muscle in a stretched position it puts more tension on it when exercised so that position is more effective. You do this for triceps by having your elbows beside your head. You keep your upper arms on a pad and then reach as far as you can back and then extend to the full extension because the last few degrees is where the triceps contract the most. You keep your elbows beside your head and you don't let them move away. Neither do you let your arms move off the pads nor your body to lift higher. This is what will happen if the weight is too heavy. People cheat and then wonder why their arms don't grow. You have to put severe mechanical tension on your triceps for a total time of from 1 to 2 minutes. When you consider that it is only the last couple of reps that does this then that is why you need to do so many sets. So each maximum set might result in perhaps 10 seconds of severe tension. After 6 sets you would have totalled 60 seconds of severe tension. This might be enough. You always go by how sore you are the next day. If you are not quite sore then you might have to repeat the program without waiting an additional day. DOMS is a gift to tell you when you are growing.

So fooling around with all manner of exercises is counterproductive. You do that only when you fail to generate any DOMS in the target muscle. Doing the same exercise isn't a requirement but why make things more difficult than they are. The simplest means is what I strive for. Do the most effective exercise for each body part. Your muscles won't know which exercise you are doing.  


* Lying triceps extension.JPG (141.83 KB, 1024x771 - viewed 203 times.)
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« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2011, 12:28:23 AM »

Why is the text in purple and why so long winded?

The text is in navy and I choose it to make my posts different. Even when I try to explain things in detail people get it wrong. So I try to anticipate what people might ask.

This is purple fonts.
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« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2011, 12:36:04 AM »

Is there any page or site where I can see those inventions of yours, because that machine looks great. Not expedient, but great. You seem to be master of the overcomplicated machines, and those I like, because I prefer to make machines as simple as possible. We are kind of at the opposite end of this subject and just as yourself, I have been building prototypes as well  Smiley

I, too, aim to make machines as simple as possible. As far as I know I was the first person to use linear motion bearings in a Smith Machine and now everyone does that. I made my first one about 1982 or 83. When you are designing a machine that gives resistance in two degrees of freedom (like the biceps-supinator) how do you achieve this? Well, I put a pulley at a rotational point and that allowed me to have two resistances as the same time. One for flexing the arm and another for twisting it.

You are fortunate that I posted my machine here. I don't allow photos of my equipment at my gym. I am afraid you will have to do your own work here, but thanks for being interested in what I have built. Of course if you visit my gym you can have a go on them.
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« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2011, 12:42:44 AM »

Here is my experience re triceps. You have to do the best exercise you can that is both effective and safe. So what do you do? Forget pressdowns except for a warmup. I don't do them any more.
When you put a muscle in a stretched position it puts more tension on it when exercised so that position is more effective. You do this for triceps by having your elbows beside your head. You keep your upper arms on a pad and then reach as far as you can back and then extend to the full extension because the last few degrees is where the triceps contract the most. You keep your elbows beside your head and you don't let them move away. Neither do you let your arms move off the pads nor your body to lift higher. This is what will happen if the weight is too heavy. People cheat and then wonder why their arms don't grow. You have to put severe mechanical tension on your triceps for a total time of from 1 to 2 minutes. When you consider that it is only the last couple of reps that does this then that is why you need to do so many sets. So each maximum set might result in perhaps 10 seconds of severe tension. After 6 sets you would have totalled 60 seconds of severe tension. This might be enough. You always go by how sore you are the next day. If you are not quite sore then you might have to repeat the program without waiting an additional day. DOMS is a gift to tell you when you are growing.

So fooling around with all manner of exercises is counterproductive. You do that only when you fail to generate any DOMS in the target muscle. Doing the same exercise isn't a requirement but why make things more difficult than they are. The simplest means is what I strive for. Do the most effective exercise for each body part. Your muscles won't know which exercise you are doing.  

See this is a decent post from you and is respected well from myself anyway.

Having the triceps in a pre-stretched position like this works the long head more - it is true you cannot isolate just one area of a muscle with one exercise but certain exercises to tend to place more stress on a certain area eg. inclines work upper pecs harder and benching on flat more mid to lower - in your case overhead works the whole tricep but places more stress on the long head - what exercises do you think are best for medial or lateral head of the tricep or do you just use the overhead movement ?
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« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2011, 12:57:49 AM »

I haven't been able to isolate the three heads of the triceps when training. One of the best machines out there is the MedX triceps. It is the only machine that puts much more resistance in the last part of the extension. The handles could be improved but I rate it as an excellent machine. Another to consider is the pressdown machine. I haven't made one yet but the guys who have used them tell me to make one.

You have to understand that I injured my triceps in 1965 doing heavy pullovers on a bench. I was using up to 250 pounds and my tris got painfully sore. That pain persisted for 6 months. I was able to train around it by doing high reps on the pressdowns for a few sets. Somehow, once gorged with blood the pain subsides. Quite an interesting phenomenon. I would expect the extensions as pictured in the photo would hurt the elbows but it does not. As long as I warm up first. I do a set of 40 reps, add a plate and do about 30, and so on. I have a Nautilus triceps machine that I modified to resemble the lying extensions.

Doing French presses behind your neck on an incline will kill the elbows. So do most skull crunchers. Avoid these. You can do a Larry Scott variation where he does circles with an ezycurl bar. Start extended over your chest and lower in a circle to your tummy then bring the bar along the chest and then up when it is at eye level. Very effective and relatively safe to do.

Never put your elbows on pads when doing extensions. You will damage the sheath that covers the elbow joint and it will remain sore for ages.


* Vince on extension machine.jpg (137.9 KB, 1200x900 - viewed 190 times.)
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« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2011, 01:03:41 AM »

I haven't been able to isolate the three heads of the triceps when training. One of the best machines out there is the MedX triceps. It is the only machine that puts much more resistance in the last part of the extension. The handles could be improved but I rate it as an excellent machine. Another to consider is the pressdown machine. I haven't made one yet but the guys who have used them tell me to make one.

You have to understand that I injured my triceps in 1965 doing heavy pullovers on a bench. I was using up to 250 pounds and my tris got painfully sore. That pain persisted for 6 months. I was able to train around it by doing high reps on the pressdowns for a few sets. Somehow, once gorged with blood the pain subsides. Quite an interesting phenomenon. I would expect the extensions as pictured in the photo would hurt the elbows but it does not. As long as I warm up first. I do a set of 40 reps, add a plate and do about 30, and so on. I have a Nautilus triceps machine that I modified to resemble the lying extensions.

Doing French presses behind your neck on an incline will kill the elbows. So do most skull crunchers. Avoid these. You can do a Larry Scott variation where he does circles with an ezycurl bar. Start extended over your chest and lower in a circle to your tummy then bring the bar along the chest and then up when it is at eye level. Very effective and relatively safe to do.

Never put your elbows on pads when doing extensions. You will damage the sheath that covers the elbow joint and it will remain sore for ages.

Thanks  Smiley - Im going to give the exercise you posted above a Try and see how I like it - something different and extra variety is always good  Cool
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« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2011, 01:12:50 AM »

Thanks  Smiley - Im going to give the exercise you posted above a Try and see how I like it - something different and extra variety is always good  Cool

This is what I invited Luke Wood to try at my gym. He never came over. They don't have a machine like this at Gold's, Venice. I have three in my gym plus the Nautilus version.

Notice this one has adjustable pads that keep the elbows from going out too wide.
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« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2011, 01:15:55 AM »

This is what I invited Luke Wood to try at my gym. He never came over. They don't have a machine like this at Gold's, Venice. I have three in my gym.

Notice this one has adjustable pads that keep the elbows from going out too wide.

I will try and copy it but it wont be the same as using one of your benches of course so not the same effects but if I can get close to it I'll be happy.

I have an idea on a couple of the benches at my gym - will try them and see how it goes  Smiley
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« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2011, 01:18:06 AM »

These are good questions. However, you are already trying to modify what I have given here. It really is quite simple. Use your brain and methods and good luck. Or use my experience and brain and save yourself the trouble. As an aside let me tell you about some women I have known. I can give them advice about doing things on their computer but they can't follow instructions step by step. Nope, they go ahead and try things and end up confused and not getting it to work.

Cheers Vince

Final question - any nutrional guidelines (macros, timing etc.) beyond calorie surplus?
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« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2011, 01:22:21 AM »

I am the epitome of sane and rational. Most of the dudes here can't be helped so think by putting down others they are some sort of internet heroes.

I behave the same whether it is online or in real life. I can't say that for the Flotsam.

^^
I think the whole secret is just "ignoring the ignorant".  We give them incentive by responding, good people here respect your posts and would LOVE more training info from you...
P.S.  Vancouver here BTW... Grin
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« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2011, 01:27:27 AM »

Post a shirtless picture.
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« Reply #88 on: September 11, 2011, 01:33:09 AM »

Cheers Vince

Final question - any nutrional guidelines (macros, timing etc.) beyond calorie surplus?

Nutrition is important but not overly so. Of course if you read the magazines you might believe otherwise. We sold no supplements at our gym for over 25 years. My ex said the guys went and bought them elsewhere so we were losing money. She was right. You can't change what people believe. I tell my members what I believe but they still buy protein powder, etc. Now I refer them to a staff member who will tell them what they want to hear!

There is a lot of research out there on nutrition. I am not an expert in this field but I base my information on thick textbooks used by graduate students in nutrition at universities. A balanced diet is necessary and this will give you ALL the nutrients you need. You don't need extra protein. Hard to believe but this is true. Most young fellows cannot grow muscle because they lack energy. It is as simple as that. I had to force-feed myself for over 20 years when competing because I couldn't eat enough. I had to find foods high in calories and eat or drink them. They don't have half and half in Australia but I used to love that mixed with strawberry Nestles Quik. I took that to parties! Ah, the good old days.
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« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2011, 01:34:45 AM »

Post a shirtless picture.


* 1975 Double biceps resized.JPG (45.61 KB, 555x768 - viewed 172 times.)
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« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2011, 01:37:36 AM »

year 2005 and 1970something, same pose.




That's for example late owner of my gym, former Polish national champion in his prime and some years later. Can you see muscle loss and fat gain? And you have to take into account that he built his muscle without any diet (he lived in communism, it was hard to get enough protein coz you didn't buy food - you were given food according to what was your work and you couldn't buy more). Nowadays with all the advances, diet, knowledge gained throughout the years he still couldn't regain that shape.
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« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2011, 01:45:40 AM »



This picture is much better than the black and white one you usually post of the Mr. Canada trophy.
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« Reply #92 on: September 11, 2011, 01:48:22 AM »

Anyway how can you say you have same amount of muscle while in pictures you clearly have around 20% bf. In pictures from 70's you have 8% bf. You're delusional, that's all.
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« Reply #93 on: September 11, 2011, 01:53:28 AM »

I don't claim to be in shape. Like most of us I think I look okay in the mirror but look fat when a photo is taken. I could get into similar condition of 1975 by persistent training and then dieting. The trouble is that now when I diet I tend to lose muscle and not fat. It isn't as easy to lose fat at my age. However, I can still build muscle and that is the important thing.
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« Reply #94 on: September 11, 2011, 01:57:22 AM »

I don't claim to be in shape. Like most of us I think I look okay in the mirror but look fat when a photo is taken. I could get into similar condition of 1975 by persistent training and then dieting. The trouble is that now when I diet I tend to lose muscle and not fat. It isn't as easy to lose fat at my age. However, I can still build muscle and that is the important thing.

Could have, would have, should have...

Do it, prove it, show it.

"The trouble is that now when I diet I tend to lose muscle and not fat. It isn't as easy to lose fat at my age."

THAT'S IT. THAT IS TESTOSTERONE, maybe thyroid levels as well. And you DONT know it's muscle unless you're low bodyfat. You just don't. You need HRT to get in that shape.

You SHOULD do bloodwork. Having low testosterone is unhealthy, may cause many problems. Having thyroid levels fucked up may cause many problems. Your problem with loosing fat is a fucking testimony to the fact that your hormone levels are fucked up.
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« Reply #95 on: September 11, 2011, 01:59:16 AM »

interesting posts vince.

i used to be deathly afraid of losing muscle by trying something new or "not working hard enough."

now that i've been pretty much forced to stop working out, i realize it's not too easy to lose muscle, and that i should have tried more things to see what was really necessary.
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« Reply #96 on: September 11, 2011, 03:28:22 AM »

Yes, building muscle at almost 70 seems impossible but I have no doubt it can be done. I had a workout on triceps and lats today so will see how sore I am tomorrow. Once I get to the size I want I will try to get into reasonable condition for the beach. I retired from competition in 1975. There is no rush. When I have something to show Getbig will be the first to know.

I have no interest in getting hormone levels tested. I don't want to get on anything because it defeats the purpose of the experiment. Nor would I in any case. Just not interested.
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« Reply #97 on: September 11, 2011, 03:33:36 AM »

You're not interested in being healthy?
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« Reply #98 on: September 11, 2011, 03:47:30 AM »

you have to use progressively heavier weights as you grow.

This right here is the key, if one is able to use progressively heavier and heavier training weights then their muscles will get larger FACT

So Vince, over that one month training period where your arms gained one inch, what were your strength increases like? And don't tell me that your strength didn't go up, coz it had to if your muscles went up in size.

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« Reply #99 on: September 11, 2011, 04:23:57 AM »

Well, I had a rapid increase in strength especially in the triceps. I started with doing reps at about 6 plates and graduated to using 9 plates after 10 workouts.

For calves the gains were astronomical. I built a calf machine that has 1000 pounds on it. I got up to doing sets of 60+ reps with 700 pounds. These were bouncing

partial reps. I don't recommend the bouncing now because it might damage the Achilles tendons. I could do a set at the weight, walk around in two small circles and

keep repeating that for perhaps 10 sets. My calves were 18 1/4 cold after that month. Curse the injury.
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