Really do people still beleive and put out hope for that magical set/rep scheme?

[BiGHer]

The problem with our current government and the US political system in general is that it is geared entirely around winning elections.  Nobody actually wants to make the country a better place or do what's best for the largest portion of people; they want to win their next election.  So you get a guy in office (e.g. Obama), takes a year to get settled in, might try to do some things the 2nd year, then it's time to work on getting re-elected again.

Obama in particular set himself up for a rough time I think by running such an incredible campaign.  The 2008 election was such an overwhelming victory not just for him but for the Democratic party as a whole that I think it really opened some eyes in the GOP, who could have gone one of two ways afterwards:

(1) Realize they're not what the American people want in their leaders at the moment and shift left, work with the left, or try a different approach altogether (not what happened)
(2) Galvanize their party together and redouble their efforts, re-energize their base, i.e. stick it to the Democrats (what happened)

So now we're at a point where the two parties are completely gridlocked and won't work together at all, because if say you're a Republican and you support something a Democrat does, you'll get massacred by your in-party rivals in the next primary for doing so (and vice-versa for the Dems).  Both parties just oppose and renounce any and everything the other party does, simply because it's "the other party", and it's all geared around greed, power, and winning, and not at all around what's actually important.

This is a good point.  Unfortunately it is a tough cycle to break or as you said, we're gridlocked.  I also think that Americans are also not educated enough as whole to completely understand what is going.  We treat the election like the superbowl and most everyone watches, but then for the 4 years that follow, how many Americans actually read at least a few times a week about what's going on and really understand the issues.  I hate talking to people who think Gay Rights, Abortion, and other Social issues are the main problems in our country right now.  I'm not downplaying those things, but they are moral beliefs that are up for debate and they are not contributing at all to our recession or pulling our country out of it for that matter.  However, they are easy issues for uneducated people to take a stance on and they take little to no knowledge of the background behind them or any current events knowledge to really discuss.

If Americans are not educated on the real issues, like the one you mention, and they don't take a strong stance in a certain direction as a large majority to break the gridlock, it will never be broken.

[The True Adonis]

you dont need to know all the parts of a car in order to drive a car dumbass

The more you know about the car and its parts, the more you can tweak things here and there to get the most maximum performance.  The same with a workout routine.

For instance, if you wanted to be a top level gymnast, you would have to adjust your workout accordingly as any one workout simply won`t do. 

[the trainer]

its getting a bit rediculous around here latley

folks theres no magical recouperation time. infact there is no "time" only perfect physics of motion around the sun

doing 2 reps isnt going to make you magically do 3 next time.

but yet even veterans are vigirously trying to devolop new routines for maximum gaynes

i beginning to wonder if any of you get any thing really accomplished in life

The secret is listening to your body, if you are feeling tired and drained that is not the day to go hardcore in the gym

[Grape Ape]

Falcon is one of my favorite posters here, but I can't get on board with this.

If I have a program that outlines rep/weight progression schemes, I'm stronger at the end of it.  If I just wing it, the gains aren't nearly as great.

[BiGHer]

Falcon is one of my favorite posters here, but I can't get on board with this.

If I have a program that outlines rep/weight progression schemes, I'm stronger at the end of it.  If I just wing it, the gains aren't nearly as great.

I used to do this.  Outline a regimen for 8 weeks or so, go at it, and then change the regimen.  Over the years though I found different things worked better for me and then instinctual training became much more beneficial.  I went to train shoulders last nightand as I stepped into the gym I had an idea of what i was going to do... after my 3rd exercise though my shoulders were fried and pumped so bad that I had to sit and rest my arms on my quads just to take any pressure off of them.  Originally in my head I was going to do more but my body told me I had killed it, so I stopped, moved on to training triceps and finished my workout.  Some people fair better with a regimen, but if my regimen says 3 sets and if after 3 sets of pushing myself hard I still think I can get more out of it, you better believe a 4th set is getting done.

[Grape Ape]

I used to do this.  Outline a regimen for 8 weeks or so, go at it, and then change the regimen.  Over the years though I found different things worked better for me and then instinctual training became much more beneficial.  I went to train shoulders last nightand as I stepped into the gym I had an idea of what i was going to do... after my 3rd exercise though my shoulders were fried and pumped so bad that I had to sit and rest my arms on my quads just to take any pressure off of them.  Originally in my head I was going to do more but my body told me I had killed it, so I stopped, moved on to training triceps and finished my workout.  Some people fair better with a regimen, but if my regimen says 3 sets and if after 3 sets of pushing myself hard I still think I can get more out of it, you better believe a 4th set is getting done.

I think that's fair, but I don't bodybuild.  I generally do full body type workouts, and gauge progress by how much my squat/bench/deadlift/db snatch have increased.  If fall into the trap of going in there and just doing those exercises without a 6 week plan, they don't really move much.

[BiGHer]

I think that's fair, but I don't bodybuild.  I generally do full body type workouts, and gauge progress by how much my squat/bench/deadlift/db snatch have increased.  If fall into the trap of going in there and just doing those exercises without a 6 week plan, they don't really move much.

Makes sense... I bodybuild so I definitely don't measure my progress on strength of any lifts.  My strength fluctuates by the day! lol

[Mr Nobody]

Whatever Jason Genova says to do I'm going to go with that. 

[cephissus]

I don't think anyone really knows the body well enough to advocate such complex schemes as falcon is laughing at.  People know many different ways to get big.  When it comes to finding the "optimal" way, though, experts tend to develop theories that are simply unsupported by their observations.

All the studies so far aren't enough, aren't even 1% enough, to justify sort of training advice that is believed as dogma by countless experts and coaches the world over.

Ask one expert who believes he knows the optimal way to get you big / fast / strong etc. to get you there and he probably can.  Ask another, who just as firmly believes many things which contradict the first, and he probably can too.

The health and fitness world is not known for attracting intelligent people, and yet you can find countless supposed experts in every corner who have somehow synthesized the bits and scraps of scientific research that exist into a perfect system that coordinates things down to the last rep.  Give me a break.  

Everyone who can write up a program to the last rep, percentage point of max, and second of rest... well, his reach has exceeded his grasp.  These programs can be good guidelines, but taken as a total substitute for one's instincts as they so often are... that's a mistake.

[Dr Dutch]

Lift some heavy ass weight, then lift even heavier ass weight next time.....that's about it.

[d0nny2600]

It's not rocket science.

Lift reasonably heavy weights, eat more than your maintenance calories to grow, eat less than your maintenance calories to lose weight. Done.

Oh to be a pro - add in lots of insulin, gh and aas.

Done. I could be a guru!!!

[Vince B]

Instinctive training and listening to your body are pure hogwash myths circulating in the dungeons of this world. Most are not gaining so they really don't know how to get bigger. The only reliable feedback is your soreness on the days following training. Yes, DOMS. Get em sore and you should grow...provided you eat enough food. No soreness = no rapid growth.

Those with long experience know that some days you feel like crap but have great workouts. On other days, you feel great but have a lousy workout.

There are many avenues to some gains but perhaps only one path to get huge. Volume and high intensity.

[buffbong]

 Mentzer prescribed some off the wall volume towards his end. But he clarified that he put no number of sets on a workout or bodypart. He just didn't think more than one was nesscary. In other words precise was best. Meaning it might take one person 12 sets to develop their chest and another 8. Nothing is written in stone but keeping a log and organized routine works for the majority. Alot of trainers who don't keep track never progress or pay much attention to it. Everyone can handle a different amount of training load due to genetics,nutrition,sleep,job,and mental focus.

 Of course there isn't a magical rep scheme. Most will agree for those with ave genetics and strength benifit from using 6-10 reps. This enables them to use moderate to heavy weight in a muscle building rep range. If the average person used 12-15 for all upper body movements it would be difficult to increase strength and monitor progress. Someone like Ronnie coleman was able to use a higher rep range with heavy weight which created a super freak. From my experience those who shoot for a higher rep range with heavy weight for the most part lax on form and also focus more about hitting x amount of reps than focusing on the set.

 

[Coach is Back!]

Basil, DOM's doesn't mean anything. Where did you get this info? DOM's means you just injured the muscle by creating micro tears.

[BiGHer]

Basile, gauging soreness is part of instinctive training.  I am also not an advocate of what yóu said though that sore=growth because if that were the case, we'd have a lot of naturals much bigger than some IFBB pros.

What I do believe is that you need to exert maximum output and effort.  Having played basketball, football, received certs in crossfit, and now bodybuilding I can say that I have trained in a variety of ways.  The bottom line still remains, and it's very simple.  Bust your ass on every workout.  Eat and sleep.  You will grow.  After a while you will see that some workouts and diets induce growth better on you as an individual than others, but as long as you are going hard, you will make some sort of gains.

[Hulkotron]

Basil, DOM's doesn't mean anything. Where did you get this info? DOM's means you just injured the muscle by creating micro tears.

I always get bad DOMS when I haven't done a lift for a while, why is this

[deceiver]

I think biggest misconception in modern bodybuilding is this thing called "overtraining". What the fuck is this? Olympic lifters squat to their max every day, 7 days per week, 365 days per year. Yes they're constantly tired, sore and miserable, but this is what it takes to be best in this sport. Back in the day some incredibly impressive physiques were built on very high volume, every bodypart two or three times per week splits. It fucking worked, you can see that on their photos.

Arnold was HUGE. That's it guys, he WAS huge. He had bigger chest and arms than many pros nowadays. Maybe he didn't weight as much BUT he was HUGE.

[Hulkotron]

I think biggest misconception in modern bodybuilding is this thing called "overtraining". What the fuck is this? Olympic lifters squat to their max every day, 7 days per week, 365 days per year. Yes they're constantly tired, sore and miserable, but this is what it takes to be best in this sport. Back in the day some incredibly impressive physiques were built on very high volume, every bodypart two or three times per week splits. It fucking worked, you can see that on their photos.

Arnold was HUGE. That's it guys, he WAS huge. He had bigger chest and arms than many pros nowadays. Maybe he didn't weight as much BUT he was HUGE.

Gotta give the NeuroCore and Plasmosis time to metabolize bro

[DK II]

Basil, DOM's doesn't mean anything. Where did you get this info? DOM's means you just injured the muscle by creating micro tears.

Shhhh, you'll shatter his world. 

[apply85]

God, fuck this thread

[chaos]

Instinctive training and listening to your body are pure hogwash myths circulating in the dungeons of this world. Most are not gaining so they really don't know how to get bigger. The only reliable feedback is your soreness on the days following training. Yes, DOMS. Get em sore and you should grow...provided you eat enough food. No soreness = no rapid growth.

Those with long experience know that some days you feel like crap but have great workouts. On other days, you feel great but have a lousy workout.

There are many avenues to some gains but perhaps only one path to get huge. Volume and high intensity.

Smells like bullshit to me.

[Darren Avey]

I vary, one week go for max s , the following do sets of 15-20, always vary weight reps and exercises. works for me

[Coach is Back!]

Heeeey, here's a thought? How about planning your training 12 weeks in advance in 4 week periodizations, keeping the sets and reps in moderate range and increasing weight in every lift each week?

"instinctive" training means basically means you believe in the bullshit of "muscle confusion" and "I really don't know how to plan my training so I'll just go to the gym and wing it".

[Hulkotron]

Instinctive training also means "I'm on a bunch of drugs and can do whatever the fuck".

[deceiver]

Instinctive training also means "I'm on a bunch of drugs and can do whatever the fuck".

this