Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...

[io856]

thats not depressing

[MuscleMcMannus]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not the only one on getbig who knows that both Mike and Ray did G4P.

Please shut the fuck up.  You have no proof and you are just spreading unfounded rumors.  Just because you're a fucking fag yourself doesn't mean you are somehow in the know about who did or didn't do gay for pay.  Fucking drama queen nancy!  Do fags like you think just because you suck dick and take it up the ass somehow you know the "scene" better than anyone else or you have some sort of "gaydar" that other people don't.  Most of the fags I know are fucking clueless idiots who just like to gossip.  If Mike did gay for pay fine......Arnold was right there along with him and it's even more believable that Arnold did it than Mike.  You going to say the same thing about Arnold?  Probably not.  

[devilsmile]

they are what, 100 years old?

Give them a fucking break! They were in the top, enjoyed life to it's fullest and trained even harder after that... but after you reach 141 years of age you tend to NOT CARE about the self image so much and just do whatever you please and feels good at the moment and train on the side, right?

[MuscleMcMannus]

they are what, 100 years old?

Give them a fucking break! They were in the top, enjoyed life to it's fullest and trained even harder after that... but after you reach 141 years of age you tend to NOT CARE about the self image so much and just do whatever you please and feels good at the moment and train on the side, right?

They were in their late 40s in the video bro.  Pretty pathetic.  When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it.  Yes give the guys a break.  But let's keep it real. 

[devilsmile]

They were in their late 40s in the video bro.  Pretty pathetic.  When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it.  Yes give the guys a break.  But let's keep it real. 

I didn't know that... 40? they look 60 

I take back what i said

[NarcissisticDeity]

Please shut the fuck up.  You have no proof and you are just spreading unfounded rumors.  Just because you're a fucking fag yourself doesn't mean you are somehow in the know about who did or didn't do gay for pay.  Fucking drama queen nancy!  Do fags like you think just because you suck dick and take it up the ass somehow you know the "scene" better than anyone else or you have some sort of "gaydar" that other people don't.  Most of the fags I know are fucking clueless idiots who just like to gossip.  If Mike did gay for pay fine......Arnold was right there along with him and it's even more believable that Arnold did it than Mike.  You going to say the same thing about Arnold?  Probably not.  

yes he has 

[dr.chimps]

You have to understand that Mike and Ray were brothers who competed against each other. When Mike won Mr America that is what Ray badly wanted. He did just that. When Mike won Mr Universe that was a title Ray coveted. Jusup beat Ray in 1979 and Ray never did win that title. He probably took risks later in his quest to win another big title. He told me in 1991 that he got sick when he was approaching 300 pounds a year or two before. He said most of the guys at that weight were getting sick. He didn't tell me what illness they had but I guess it had something to do with the kidneys and perhaps heart disease. Ray once squatted with 925 pounds for two reps. The guy was like a superman. He used pain killers and eventually these impacted on his health. It is very said that they died before reaching 50. They were far from knuckleheads. Mike was a philosopher and apparently so was Jusup Wilcosz.[/b]

Do you not catch yourself when you make silly, declarative points like this? My local is filled with philosophers, but I wouldn't group them with Sophocles or Kant.   
 

[DK II]

Do you not catch yourself when you make silly, declarative points like this? My local is filled with philosophers, but I wouldn't group them with Sophocles or Kant.   
 

x 10000, also, to Dr. Basile, someone who knows a word he doesn't know gets a clear bill of mental health... 

[DK II]

Please shut the fuck up.  You have no proof and you are just spreading unfounded rumors.  Just because you're a fucking fag yourself doesn't mean you are somehow in the know about who did or didn't do gay for pay.  Fucking drama queen nancy!  Do fags like you think just because you suck dick and take it up the ass somehow you know the "scene" better than anyone else or you have some sort of "gaydar" that other people don't.  Most of the fags I know are fucking clueless idiots who just like to gossip.  If Mike did gay for pay fine......Arnold was right there along with him and it's even more believable that Arnold did it than Mike.  You going to say the same thing about Arnold?  Probably not.  

Everyone knows Arnold did everything to go to the top.

[doriancutlerman]

The 600-pound deadlift scene, yeah, I remember reading about that, too, man. Six plates (585). Samir had just walked in and, without a warmup, pulled it, and quite easily.

It doesn't shock me that the Mentzer brothers couldn't hoist it, either. As I say, these guys were all drugs ... but came to the belief that their training methodologies were the answer. Total horseshit.

As I recall, Mike got a hard single, but Ray and Viator couldn't lift it (at least, according to Samir).

I asked Mike about that once and he laughed.  He said Casey would bullshit about not using tons of Dianabol during the Colorado thing, and that he was prone to outright lying about his best lifts.  Just the same, Mike said, all three of them were perfectly capable of pulling more than 585, especially Casey (again, according to Mike).  What Samir didn't mention was all of the shit Mike and co. did before he approached them.  I don't remember what all that was, but I do remember thinking, "Well, that explains that." 

[YoungBlood]

Do you not catch yourself when you make silly, declarative points like this? My local is filled with philosophers, but I wouldn't group them with Sophocles or Kant.   

Exactly. These days, it seems in order to be considered a philosopher, all you have to do is string together incoherent sentences. For an example, read any of Johnny Falcon's posts.

Mike idolize Ayn Rand and would use her influence as some way to swing people into his methods being superior. He'd say something like "If you study physiology, you will see weight training is very hard on the body but the body can adapt. Ayn Rand once said the stars were purple but the earth adapted to the color." And somehow this statement, in Mike's mind, made enough sense that he would use this as a compelling argument for his cause.

It's one thing to see this video and think they're just a couple of "Bundy's" reliving the glory days. But once you realize they're still in their 40's, you realize that's just a horror film...or a really good D.A.R.E commercial. 

[Vince B]

Mike was a philosopher. Lots of professors of philosophy are not Spinozas and David Humes. I never embraced the writings of Ayn Rand. She wrote a lot of controversial but interesting books and essays. Her Virtue of Selfishness is nonsense. Why Mike followed that stuff I have no idea. Ray talked about Ayn Rand, too, but wasn't what I consider a philosopher. Mike put his writings into a cohesive larger theory about the world and universe. There was one true theory about any phenomenon including hypertrophy theory. Mike believed that if he had knowledge of the correct theory then he would reap the rewards of following it and also being the best bodybuilder. In 1980 his whole universe imploded when he placed 5th in the Olympia in Sydney. He was never the same and Ray told me how Mike lost it and did weird shit and his Dad told Ray to look after Mike. Ray said that Mike lost him customers at his gym in Torrance.....Muscle Mill.

I don't believe Ray did Gay4pay. No way. The guy was severely anti gay.

[io856]

When muscle heroes fall they fall hard.   

Mike believed that if he had knowledge of the correct theory then he would reap the rewards of following it and also being the best bodybuilder. In 1980 his whole universe imploded when he placed 5th in the Olympia in Sydney. 

 

[YoungBlood]

I don't believe Ray did Gay4pay. No way. The guy was severely anti gay. [/color]

That's the second time you've referred to Ray not doing G4P, yet avoided mentioning Mike in that same sense.

[BayGBM]

That's the second time you've referred to Ray not doing G4P, yet avoided mentioning Mike in that same sense.

[apply85]

Why do people take offense to g4p, there's a lot of old queens around town that I like very much, every once in a while I will catch one of them staring at me like they are trying to burn a whole in me with their glasses, but this is shit you gotta get over, they are good people. I understand why they don't like women, I don't even really like women but I need their love and they get me off sexually. If that weren't the case I wouldn't ever even look at a woman.

One time at the local cafe a couple girls left empty plates on the table and began to leave, this old gay guy said really loudly "I'm not your mother, clean your table" and stood their and waited as they did so before he took a seat at the table. He had my respect form then on. He also offers me a spot at his table whenever the place is full, very nice man, sometimes I catch him looking at me strangely lol, but whatever. I respect the man.

g4p aint nothing to sneeze at, being beautiful gives you a certain amount of power, a certain amount of real estate in people's minds, to translate this power into money is to realize that power. Like when a stock goes up in a company you own, and you sell the stock, you just realized a gain. Realize your power motherfuckers, don't be ashamed

[The_Iron_Disciple]

Big fan of Mike. But let's get something straight. He was no philosopher. FACT. He was, however, a deep thinker. Big difference ! He parroted Rand. Through and through ! How do I know ? Because I've studied both Mentzer and Rand's work. He had NO orginal ideas regarding anything philisophical.


And another thing. Philosophy, more or less, blows. It's all mental masturbation, really. Pick up a book by Kant, Shopenhauer, Heidegger and try reading it. Blah, blah, blah, etc. Better yet, try attending a lecture ! Hahahahahahahahah ! Then the real fun starts !

[Vince B]

One doesn't need to be original to be a philosopher. Mike is unique among bodybuilding writers to organize his thoughts in a larger system re reality. That is philosophy.

I agree that some philosophers are difficult to read and comprehend. I cite Kant and Sartre. Maybe there is a problem in the translations? Both apparently giants in the

discipline but not easy to fathom. Plato wrote for the masses. David Hume is probably the epitome of a clear thinking philosopher. I also like Karl Popper who wrote

about the philosophy of science in Conjectures and Refutations. John Stuart Mill was a wonderful thinker and writer. He was way ahead of his time.

[BayGBM]

Why do people take offense to g4p, there's a lot of old queens around town that I like very much, every once in a while I will catch one of them staring at me like they are trying to burn a whole in me with their glasses, but this is shit you gotta get over, they are good people. I understand why they don't like women, I don't even really like women but I need their love and they get me off sexually. If that weren't the case I wouldn't ever even look at a woman.

One time at the local cafe a couple girls left empty plates on the table and began to leave, this old gay guy said really loudly "I'm not your mother, clean your table" and stood their and waited as they did so before he took a seat at the table. He had my respect form then on. He also offers me a spot at his table whenever the place is full, very nice man, sometimes I catch him looking at me strangely lol, but whatever. I respect the man.

g4p aint nothing to sneeze at, being beautiful gives you a certain amount of power, a certain amount of real estate in people's minds, to translate this power into money is to realize that power. Like when a stock goes up in a company you own, and you sell the stock, you just realized a gain. Realize your power motherfuckers, don't be ashamed

A lot of it has to do with ego and insecurity.  Many guys believe they can tell when someone is gay.  When they learn that someone they looked up to does/did G4P it yokes them out of their complacency.  Maybe their powers of perception are not as keen as they thought. Similarly, their image of what a man hetero or gay man looks like or behaves like is also shattered.  If the big muscle guy is doing g4p and you didn’t know about it, who else don’t you know about?  If other people know about it (and you didn’t) what assumptions might people make about you?  Does every big guy do g4p?  If you have big muscles and show off your body to other men are you suspect for doing g4p?  It's a slippery slope.  

Mike definitely did g4p.  I heard Ray did as well, but my source for that was not as ironclad.

[apply85]

Yeah, I kinda get why, I'm just saying relax. When ugly or fat girls talk to me, I don't shoo them away, neither do I to guys, admiration is admiration.

[jwb]

Vince, guys who are "severely antigay" are blokes who have sucked cock before.

Truly straight men are indifferent about homosexuals.

[DK II]

Vince, guys who are "severely antigay" are blokes who have sucked cock before.

Truly straight men are indifferent about homosexuals.

I think this is spot on.

A lot of anti-gays are even closet homos.

[apply85]

wasn't there a politician who was staunchly anti gay then he got pulled over for drunk driving and he was coming home from a gay bar?

[MB]

Can't translate... can't picture him running around the gym naked and looney toonz either...

The most well known beard in bodybuilding.  He seems so small compared to today's competitors, good physique though. 

[OneMoreRep]

Mike definitely did g4p.  I heard Ray did as well, but my source for that was not as ironclad.

I know one queen who swears he had both, during the same month, doing sessions for him.  I will call him tomorrow and see if he has any pictures that he wouldn't mind sharing.

"1"