Author Topic: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?  (Read 6558 times)

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2011, 01:01:04 PM »

He lied about the payment to the docs.   

he got the dollar amount wrong

you lied that he said  "doctors choose to ampute feet over treating patients"

why not just admit you lied or made an error

what's the big deal?

Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2011, 01:02:49 PM »
he got the dollar amount wrong

you lied that he said  "doctors choose to ampute feet over treating patients"

why not just admit you lied or made an error

what's the big deal?

He got it wrong?    LMFAO - $50,000 as opposed to $1,500?     that is not a mistake - that is a lie. 

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2011, 01:05:53 PM »
He got it wrong?    LMFAO - $50,000 as opposed to $1,500?     that is not a mistake - that is a lie. 

interesting how you refuse to admit your HUGE lie while pointing out a error (or if you'd like to call it a lie that's fine) in someone else

dude - in your defense the title of the youtube video is a lie as well and we all know you're not that bright so you really have an easy out here

it's interesting that you can't even admit an error when it's so blatant and easily provable

Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2011, 01:08:37 PM »
interesting how you refuse to admit your HUGE lie while pointing out a error (or if you'd like to call it a lie that's fine) in someone else

dude - in your defense the title of the youtube video is a lie as well and we all know you're not that bright so you really have an easy out here

it's interesting that you can't even admit an error when it's so blatant and easily provable

If you take Obama's entire statement, coupled with his lie at the end on the dollar amount - its clear what he was inferring.   

same as the tonsils lie he told.   

Grape Ape

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2011, 01:09:49 PM »
lol.  You should post here more often.  


Thank you, but Calvin H doesn't like his mods posting too much outside of their respective forums.  Plus, ever since kiwi became a "mod" we've had tons of issues with e-board spillover that takes up most of our time.
Y

Dos Equis

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2011, 01:11:23 PM »
Thank you, but Calvin H doesn't like his mods posting too much outside of their respective forums.  Plus, ever since kiwi became a "mod" we've had tons of issues with e-board spillover that takes up most of our time.

Tell Calvin to come on over too.   :)

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2011, 01:15:00 PM »
If you take Obama's entire statement, coupled with his lie at the end on the dollar amount - its clear what he was inferring.   

same as the tonsils lie he told.   

I dont' see anything in the video where he says or infers that doctors "doctors choose to ampute feet over treating patients"

even in the second article you posted the author never refuted that statement...... and the reason why is because it didn't exist to refute


Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2011, 01:18:39 PM »
I dont' see anything in the video where he says or infers that doctors "doctors choose to ampute feet over treating patients"

even in the second article you posted the author never refuted that statement...... and the reason why is because it didn't exist to refute



So that is the latest obama excuse?    "He did not lie, he is just incompetent and doesnt know WTF he is talking about"  ? ? ? ? ?

 

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2011, 01:21:58 PM »
So that is the latest obama excuse?    "He did not lie, he is just incompetent and doesnt know WTF he is talking about"  ? ? ? ? ? 

is any factual inaccuracy a lie to you?

Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2011, 01:25:10 PM »
is any factual inaccuracy a lie to you?

It would have been one thing for him to say 5k, 8k,  NO he said 50K!!!!


Where did he get that from? 

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2011, 01:28:03 PM »
It would have been one thing for him to say 5k, 8k,  NO he said 50K!!!!


Where did he get that from? 

beats me

where did you get this statement from

It's not in the video

why did you write it and attribute it to Obama?

He said doctors choose to ampute feet over treating patients because they get an immediate 35k.   LIE 

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2011, 01:31:00 PM »
beats me

where did you get this statement from

It's not in the video

why did you write it and attribute it to Obama?



Its the obvious inference he is making.   

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2011, 01:39:16 PM »

Its the obvious inference he is making.   

so a statement that doesn't exist in reality is the obvious inference that you see in your mind

I think we're back where we started

I honestly believe he has mental issues

could be organic or chemical related but something is clearly wrong with the dude

LurkerNoMore

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2011, 01:41:33 PM »
Hey 333, why don't you ever answer questions about your behavior and lying when directed at you?

Seriously, I am curious to know why you act like you don't see people calling you out on your behavior.  Is denial a survival mechanism for you?

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2011, 01:42:59 PM »
Obama Missteps on Foot Amputation Pay to Surgeons
Cheryl Clark, for HealthLeaders Media , August 14, 2009


 

At least three large physicians' groups, and many physician bloggers yesterday blasted President Obama for saying that a surgeon makes $30,000 to $50,000 to amputate the foot of a diabetic, while receiving a pittance to prevent the diabetes that necessitated the procedure in the first place.

That is wrong, said members of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, the American College of Surgeons, and the California Medical Association. Numerous bloggers and pundits promptly pounced on his statements, some calling him "idiot-in-chief."

"The CMA wholeheartedly agrees with the President on the importance of prevention, but the examples he used were inaccurate and offensive and could undermine the trust central to the physician-patient relationship," said the California group, which represents about one-fourth of the state's 125,000 licensed doctors.

"President Obama got his facts completely wrong," according to a statement from the ACS, whose 74,000 members make it the largest organization of surgeons in the world.

"In fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation," sais ACS, which is care that includes evaluation of the patient the day of the operation and follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation.

Private insurers pay a variation of the same amount, said the group, adding that it is "deeply disturbed" over the President's "uninformed public comments."

In fact, the cost of a foot amputation includes payment to the hospital for several days' stay, to an anesthesiologist and rehabilitation specialists, and for wound care after the surgery is over. But the surgeon doesn't charge those amounts. A 2007 article in the Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association estimates the cost of a lower extremity amputation at $30,000 to $60,000, with an additional $43,000 to $60,000 for subsequent care for 3 years.

At a Town Hall meeting, in Portsmouth, N.H., on Wednesday, Obama said: "Let's take the example of something like diabetes . . . a disease that's skyrocketing, partly because of obesity, partly because it's not treated as effectively as it could be.

"Right now . . . if a family care physician works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they're taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed a pittance. But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that's 30,000, 40, 50,000 dollars immediately the surgeon is reimbursed.

"Well, why not make sure that we're also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation. Right? That will save us money," said Obama.

Orthopedic physicians said they are "profoundly disappointed" with his comments, which had the effect of "blurring the realities of physician reimbursements."

"Surgeons are neither reimbursed by Medicare, nor any provider for that matter, for foot amputations at rates anywhere close to $50,000, $40,000 or even $30,000. Medicare reimbursements to physicians for foot amputations range from approximately $700 to $1,200."

The group said Obama mischaracterized the reimbursement system by saying physicians get paid "immediately," when Medicare payment delays are common.

"As President Obama continues to pursue the healthcare reform agenda, we implore him to disengage from hyperbole and acknowledge that healthcare delivery can only be improved by recognizing that healthcare is a system in which orthopedic surgeons play a crucial role. With $849 billion of our national economy impacted by musculoskeletal conditions, orthopaedic surgeons provide care that improves lives and puts people back to work."

The CMA added in its statement that it is "committed to reforming our health system to increase access to quality care and reduce rising healthcare costs." But, it continued, "The American people must be able to trust our elected officials and the statements they make regarding healthcare.

"We urge the President to stick to the facts and avoid the kind of misleading and inflammatory rhetoric that would erode the trust and derail our efforts to increase access to quality care and control rising healthcare costs."

The comments were particularly irritating to physicians who are still reeling from the President's recent suggestion that doctors perform many unnecessary tonsillectomies because they get paid more for doing those than for prescribing medications for what might really be wrong with the patient, such as an allergy.

In July, Obama made this statement at an address to the nation:

"Right now, doctors a lot of times are forced to make decisions based on the fee payment schedule that's out there. So if you come in and you've got a bad sore throat or your child has a bad sore throat or has repeated sore throats, the doctor may look at the reimbursement system, and say to himself, 'You know what? I make a lot more money if I take this kid's tonsils out.'

"Now that may be the right thing to do, but I'd rather have that doctor making those decisions just based on whether you really need your kid's tonsils out, or whether it might make more sense to change, maybe they have allergies or maybe they have something else that would make a difference."

One physician who was particularly annoyed with both Obama statements is Ted Mazer, MD, a San Diego ear, nose, and throat specialist.

"His inflammatory and inaccurate comments about physician payments serve the debate on health reform poorly," Mazer says. "He needs to lead the nation with facts, not attacks and misinformation."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheryl Clark is a senior editor and California correspondent for HealthLeaders Media Online. She can be reached at cclark@healthleadersmedia.com. Follow Cheryl Clark on Twitter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/print/PHY-237492/Obama-Missteps-on-Foot-Amputation-Pay-to-Surgeons


Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2011, 01:50:41 PM »
Obama Missteps on Foot Amputation Pay to Surgeons
Cheryl Clark, for HealthLeaders Media , August 14, 2009




At least three large physicians' groups, and many physician bloggers yesterday blasted President Obama for saying that a surgeon makes $30,000 to $50,000 to amputate the foot of a diabetic, while receiving a pittance to prevent the diabetes that necessitated the procedure in the first place.

That is wrong, said members of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, the American College of Surgeons, and the California Medical Association. Numerous bloggers and pundits promptly pounced on his statements, some calling him "idiot-in-chief."

"The CMA wholeheartedly agrees with the President on the importance of prevention, but the examples he used were inaccurate and offensive and could undermine the trust central to the physician-patient relationship," said the California group, which represents about one-fourth of the state's 125,000 licensed doctors.

"President Obama got his facts completely wrong," according to a statement from the ACS, whose 74,000 members make it the largest organization of surgeons in the world.

"In fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation," sais ACS, which is care that includes evaluation of the patient the day of the operation and follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation.

Private insurers pay a variation of the same amount, said the group, adding that it is "deeply disturbed" over the President's "uninformed public comments."

In fact, the cost of a foot amputation includes payment to the hospital for several days' stay, to an anesthesiologist and rehabilitation specialists, and for wound care after the surgery is over. But the surgeon doesn't charge those amounts. A 2007 article in the Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association estimates the cost of a lower extremity amputation at $30,000 to $60,000, with an additional $43,000 to $60,000 for subsequent care for 3 years.

At a Town Hall meeting, in Portsmouth, N.H., on Wednesday, Obama said: "Let's take the example of something like diabetes . . . a disease that's skyrocketing, partly because of obesity, partly because it's not treated as effectively as it could be.

"Right now . . . if a family care physician works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they're taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed a pittance. But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that's 30,000, 40, 50,000 dollars immediately the surgeon is reimbursed.

"Well, why not make sure that we're also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation. Right? That will save us money," said Obama.

Orthopedic physicians said they are "profoundly disappointed" with his comments, which had the effect of "blurring the realities of physician reimbursements."

"Surgeons are neither reimbursed by Medicare, nor any provider for that matter, for foot amputations at rates anywhere close to $50,000, $40,000 or even $30,000. Medicare reimbursements to physicians for foot amputations range from approximately $700 to $1,200."

The group said Obama mischaracterized the reimbursement system by saying physicians get paid "immediately," when Medicare payment delays are common.

"As President Obama continues to pursue the healthcare reform agenda, we implore him to disengage from hyperbole and acknowledge that healthcare delivery can only be improved by recognizing that healthcare is a system in which orthopedic surgeons play a crucial role. With $849 billion of our national economy impacted by musculoskeletal conditions, orthopaedic surgeons provide care that improves lives and puts people back to work."

The CMA added in its statement that it is "committed to reforming our health system to increase access to quality care and reduce rising healthcare costs." But, it continued, "The American people must be able to trust our elected officials and the statements they make regarding healthcare.

"We urge the President to stick to the facts and avoid the kind of misleading and inflammatory rhetoric that would erode the trust and derail our efforts to increase access to quality care and control rising healthcare costs."

The comments were particularly irritating to physicians who are still reeling from the President's recent suggestion that doctors perform many unnecessary tonsillectomies because they get paid more for doing those than for prescribing medications for what might really be wrong with the patient, such as an allergy.

In July, Obama made this statement at an address to the nation:

"Right now, doctors a lot of times are forced to make decisions based on the fee payment schedule that's out there. So if you come in and you've got a bad sore throat or your child has a bad sore throat or has repeated sore throats, the doctor may look at the reimbursement system, and say to himself, 'You know what? I make a lot more money if I take this kid's tonsils out.'

"Now that may be the right thing to do, but I'd rather have that doctor making those decisions just based on whether you really need your kid's tonsils out, or whether it might make more sense to change, maybe they have allergies or maybe they have something else that would make a difference."

One physician who was particularly annoyed with both Obama statements is Ted Mazer, MD, a San Diego ear, nose, and throat specialist.

"His inflammatory and inaccurate comments about physician payments serve the debate on health reform poorly," Mazer says. "He needs to lead the nation with facts, not attacks and misinformation."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheryl Clark is a senior editor and California correspondent for HealthLeaders Media Online. She can be reached at cclark@healthleadersmedia.com. Follow Cheryl Clark on Twitter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/print/PHY-237492/Obama-Missteps-on-Foot-Amputation-Pay-to-Surgeons



interesting

I wonder why the author didn't address the quote by Obama that "doctors choose to ampute feet over treating patients"

that seems much more inflamtory then merely getting the amount or mechanism of payment wrong

333 - why do you think the author ignored that?

Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2011, 01:55:38 PM »
RCP took away the same thing too 

________________________ ____________________

August 11, 2009
Obama: Doctors May Choose Amputation Because Of Reimbursement



President Obama implied at his town hall that doctors may decide to amputate the feet of a diabetic patient instead of working on a diet routine with them because of the money they would be reimbursed.



To comment on this video click here or click the "Comments" link below.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/11/obama_doctors_may_choose_amputation_because_of_reimbursement.html


Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2011, 01:58:22 PM »
RCP took away the same thing too 

________________________ ____________________

August 11, 2009
Obama: Doctors May Choose Amputation Because Of Reimbursement



President Obama implied at his town hall that doctors may decide to amputate the feet of a diabetic patient instead of working on a diet routine with them because of the money they would be reimbursed.



To comment on this video click here or click the "Comments" link below.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/08/11/obama_doctors_may_choose_amputation_because_of_reimbursement.html



bfd

RCP is wrong just like you are

the title of the video is wrong

last week you made a claim about Elmendorf said the stimulus didn't create jobs and posted a video by Breitbart that had a title that was also wrong

just because other people share the same lie doesn't make it true

Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2011, 02:00:28 PM »
LOL.   I guess you and obama share a secret code language the rest of america does not grasp when he makes an ass of himself when off teleprompter.   


Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #94 on: November 01, 2011, 02:05:54 PM »
LOL.   I guess you and obama share a secret code language the rest of america does not grasp when he makes an ass of himself when off teleprompter.   

interesting you bring up secret code because I'm just listening to the actual words that he is saying

you're the one who has admitted "inferring" something that was never said so who is the one hearing a secret code

btw - did you even watch the video you posted by RCP

he says right in the beginning he is not dissing surgeons and in the end he says "why not make sure we that we're also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation.  That will save us money"

note the quotation marks

that's an actual quote

you can find it starting at ~ 1:10 on the video

see how that works

no need to infer anything or make up nonsense that he never said and pretend it's a quote

Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #95 on: November 01, 2011, 02:10:01 PM »
Please - just cause he adds a qualifier before his bullshit lie, doesnt excuse the lie. 


Again - this is supposed to be the smartest potus ever, the con law scholar, the highest IQ POTUS ever.   


WO his scripted teleprompter fed drivel, he is a blithering moron at best.   

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2011, 02:13:36 PM »
Please - just cause he adds a qualifier before his bullshit lie, doesnt excuse the lie. 


Again - this is supposed to be the smartest potus ever, the con law scholar, the highest IQ POTUS ever.   


WO his scripted teleprompter fed drivel, he is a blithering moron at best.   

dude - what difference does it make what he says when you just choose to hear (infer) whatever you want


Soul Crusher

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #97 on: November 01, 2011, 02:18:53 PM »
dude - what difference does it make what he says when you just choose to hear (infer) whatever you want



Other than the beaten wives club that includes the likes of yourself , blacken, lurker, blackass, 240, chad, etc, its obvious what he was inferring. 

Straw Man

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #98 on: November 01, 2011, 02:28:01 PM »
Other than the beaten wives club that includes the likes of yourself , blacken, lurker, blackass, 240, chad, etc, its obvious what he was inferring. 

reality beats you on a daily basis

you simply make shit up

Skip8282

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Re: 240, Lurker, Blackass etc - did Obama lie here?
« Reply #99 on: November 01, 2011, 02:29:43 PM »
We're not talking about him.  We're talking about you.  You just admitted again you think he's insane or a pathological liar, yet you still follow him around and try to change that.   What does that say about you?   I'm assuming you know that Insanity and pathological lying cannot be cured by countering posts on a message board. 

Log off, or you're equally fucked up.



Lol, BOOOM.