Round Robin

[littleguns]

LOL!!!

Speaking of queers and losing smiles...
My buddy worked in WWE developmental for a while.
He said it is basically part of Federation folklore; the "special relationship" HBK has/had with a very, VERY, VERY high-ranking male executive in the company.
In fact, our very own Playboy from this board is school buddies with a member of the current roster who has also recounted those stories.

Actually there appears to have been quite a large number of gay/bisexual higher-ups in wrestling over the years.
I never encountered anything in my brief tenure - maybe I wasn't cute enough - but, this seemed to be a common theme in the 80's, hence all the accusations during the sex scandals.

Are you Max Moon? Seriously though, who are you?

[The Showstoppa]

Are you Max Moon? Seriously though, who are you?

He was the "Full Monty" and wrestled in a thong.   

[littleguns]

He was the "Full Monty" and wrestled in a thong.   

no really.....that was Mideon/Dennis Knight

[joseywaleshhh]

I just went back and read this whole thread when I saw it turned into a "shit in Shawn's mouth" thread. Loved it.

Benoit
Jericho
Eddie
Dynamite
Regal

[Montague]

I just went back and read this whole thread when I saw it turned into a "shit in Shawn's mouth" thread. Loved it.

Funny choice of wording...
When Sunny/Tammy Sitch left Shawn to go back to Candido, the "Kliq" allegedly placed feces in her dinner prior to it being delivered from catering after a show.
Bret tells the story best: "I guess the mafia places a horse's head in your bed, but the Kliq shits in your dinner."


Classy.

[Montague]

[polychronopolous]

Damn Cornette never disappoints in these shoots!

He really starts to bring on the heat around 1:50 

[Montague]

Damn Cornette never disappoints in these shoots!

He really starts to bring on the heat around 1:50 

Corny is honest and holds nothing back.
Sure: everyone has an opinion and their version of the story.
If nothing else, Cornette at least calls it the way he sees it.

JC has a fantastic mind for the business the way it used to be.
He and Danny Davis were heading up a school and/or promotion a while back.
I believe it had an old-school theme to it.
However, I'm not sure what the current status of it is.

[Montague]

Also, I just stumbled across this interview earlier tonight.
I was quite surprised to hear Corny echoing many of the criticisms I've been making about HBK for the last year or so.
Scary!!

I'd love to hear what someone like Cornette has to say about Shawn in his early "HBK" days; specifically, when he'd bring little kids into the ring and they'd all do the stripper dance after his match.

Good move, Shawn. That's entertainment!
 

[leaky_frog]

Pure Gold!

[Montague]

This is one of my favorites.

1997...San Antonio, TX..."Toy-Boy" COULDN'T EVEN SELL OUT HIS HOME TOWN...even with 12,511 comp tickets!!!

[The Showstoppa]

This is one of my favorites.

1997...San Antonio, TX..."Toy-Boy" COULDN'T EVEN SELL OUT HIS HOME TOWN...even with 12,511 comp tickets!!!

To be fair he did "sell" close to 50,000 tickets which isn't too bad.  Especially with the shape the WWF was in Jan of 97.

[Montague]

To be fair he did "sell" close to 50,000 tickets which isn't too bad.  Especially with the shape the WWF was in Jan of 97.

Well, when you're done bungee jumping off of Toy-Boy's nutz, go check out the shoot interview thread.
I've compiled a small list of shoot interviews Corny's done in which he talks about Vince, Hogan, Ferrara, Austin, working on the WWF creative team, and a bunch other stuff.
Very good interviews!




Oh, and Bret drew better numbers than Shawn during the above time period.
So, it still stands that Shawn was never the best draw at any time in his career, and - relatively speaking - business dove when the spotlight was on him.
 

[littleguns]

So who really was the biggest WWWF/WWF/WWE Draw

Hogan? Austin? Bruno or other??

Inquiring minds want to know

[Montague]

So who really was the biggest WWWF/WWF/WWE Draw

Hogan? Austin? Bruno or other??

Inquiring minds want to know

I believe Meltzer posted that info on his site last year or so.
If I remember, he broke it down into merchandise sales, tickets, PPV's etc.
I don't remember all the details, but it's difficult to narrow it down to one guy due to things like inflation (dollar value), as well as the fact that the company expanded over the years, which by itself changed business volume.

When Hogan was the top guy in the mid to late 80’s the Fed didn’t have as many PPV’s per year as they did when Austin & Rock were on top.
When Bruno was king, they didn’t even have PPV‘s.
About the best conclusion you can hope to draw is maybe who was the best of a particular generation.

[littleguns]

I believe Meltzer posted that info on his site last year or so.
If I remember, he broke it down into merchandise sales, tickets, PPV's etc.
I don't remember all the details, but it's difficult to narrow it down to one guy due to things like inflation (dollar value), as well as the fact that the company expanded over the years, which by itself changed business volume.

When Hogan was the top guy in the mid to late 80’s the Fed didn’t have as many PPV’s per year as they did when Austin & Rock were on top.
When Bruno was king, they didn’t even have PPV‘s.
About the best conclusion you can hope to draw is maybe who was the best of a particular generation.

Interesting..I read on on the dirt sheets that Cena made WWE $140 mil last yr with everything he did...

[Montague]

Interesting..I read on on the dirt sheets that Cena made WWE $140 mil last yr with everything he did...

I believe it.
The guy is everywhere!

[The Showstoppa]

Well, when you're done bungee jumping off of Toy-Boy's nutz, go check out the shoot interview thread. I've compiled a small list of shoot interviews Corny's done in which he talks about Vince, Hogan, Ferrara, Austin, working on the WWF creative team, and a bunch other stuff.
Very good interviews!




Oh, and Bret drew better numbers than Shawn during the above time period.
So, it still stands that Shawn was never the best draw at any time in his career, and - relatively speaking - business dove when the spotlight was on him.
 

Ouch !!!     I actually think HBK was a big part in opening up the "attitude era" with the DX stuff with HHH and Chyna.  And the buildup to him and Austin was great and set the stage for the climb the WWF made shortly after.  I know he certainly appears to be a turd of a person by most accounts, but in-ring he was gold and whether or not more people went to see him (draw) is irrelevant to me.  Hogan drew big and totally sucked-ass in every possible way.

[Montague]

Ouch !!!     I actually think HBK was a big part in opening up the "attitude era" with the DX stuff with HHH and Chyna.  And the buildup to him and Austin was great and set the stage for the climb the WWF made shortly after.  I know he certainly appears to be a turd of a person by most accounts, and  

Oh, without a doubt.
The D-X stuff and the heat he had from SS '97 made him the perfect guy to feed to Austin.

whether or not more people went to see him (draw) is irrelevant to me.

To each his own. I was only stating fiscal fact, which is based on the majority of fans.
We certainly are not the majority.
But, we can't ignore them either; without the mainstream fans, we wouldn't have a product.

but in-ring he was gold

When he cooperated.
It's a shame he had to be such a bitch so often, like that shit he pulled with Vader...and plenty of others.
Shawn was very good when he wanted to be, but he was only concerned with using that talent to make himself look better. Had he used it to better more of his co-workers, he may have created a better product, which would have benefitted the company AND him - even more.
Unfortunately, he was too selfish to have ever had that business sense.

Hogan drew big and totally sucked-ass in every possible way.

Except drawing money.
There are different aspects to the "worker" formula.
But, the bottom line is that being a good worker means giving fans what they want to see.
Hogan did that.
It didn't last, but he reached far more people than Michaels could ever have dreamed.

I think I feel about Dusty similar to how you feel about Hulkster.
I tear Dusty apart, but the bottom line is he ("apparently") drew, although I'll never fully understand why.

[The Showstoppa]

Oh, without a doubt.
The D-X stuff and the heat he had from SS '97 made him the perfect guy to feed to Austin.


To each his own. I was only stating fiscal fact, which is based on the majority of fans.
We certainly are not the majority.
But, we can't ignore them either; without the mainstream fans, we wouldn't have a product.


When he cooperated.
It's a shame he had to be such a bitch so often, like that shit he pulled with Vader...and plenty of others.
Shawn was very good when he wanted to be, but he was only concerned with using that talent to make himself look better. Had he used it to better more of his co-workers, he may have created a better product, which would have benefitted the company AND him - even more.
Unfortunately, he was too selfish to have ever had that business sense.


Except drawing money.
There are different aspects to the "worker" formula.
But, the bottom line is that being a good worker means giving fans what they want to see.
Hogan did that.
It didn't last, but he reached far more people than Michaels could ever have dreamed.

I think I feel about Dusty similar to how you feel about Hulkster.
I tear Dusty apart, but the bottom line is he ("apparently") drew, although I'll never fully understand why.

I totally agree on the Dusty and Hogan comparison.  Could never understand the appeal of either one to such a huge fanbase.

A lot of the criticisms about HBK could be applied to Hogan as well....only out for himself, petty backstage politics and he was never, ever concerned with putting over the other guys talent.  Contrast that to Flair who could make you think Randy Mulkey was a threat to take the title on a Saturday evening TV show.

I think its more of a "workers" view on how important drawing power was.  I also think that they were brainwashed to an extent by promoters to be so overly concerned with it.  I always found it funny how it was ONLY the main-event which got praise or criticism for the draw, when very often the undercard had matches I was far more interested in.  But like you said, we aren't the majority for sure.....hence the birth of hulking up and a legdrop as a finisher......brother !!!   

[Montague]

I totally agree on the Dusty and Hogan comparison.  Could never understand the appeal of either one to such a huge fanbase.

A lot of the criticisms about HBK could be applied to Hogan as well....only out for himself, petty backstage politics and he was never, ever concerned with putting over the other guys talent.  Contrast that to Flair who could make you think Randy Mulkey was a threat to take the title on a Saturday evening TV show.

I think its more of a "workers" view on how important drawing power was.  I also think that they were brainwashed to an extent by promoters to be so overly concerned with it.  I always found it funny how it was ONLY the main-event which got praise or criticism for the draw, when very often the undercard had matches I was far more interested in.  But like you said, we aren't the majority for sure.....hence the birth of hulking up and a legdrop as a finisher......brother !!!   

You know, I used to think it was just a handful of guys who were jealous and bitter towards Hogan, but outside of his industry buddies/kiss-asses, it seems that almost everyone says the same thing; that Hulk held people down, was only out for himself, etc.
There's a fine line between taking care of yourself and ONLY taking care of yourself.

Guys like Hogan & Hellwig would run though their opponents and then that was it.
Meanwhile, Flair could revisit feuds - even with guys like Ricky Morton!
Flair may not be so popular in the locker room these days, but all those guys could take notes from him: Flair understood the value of making himself AND his opponents look good, which benefitted EVERYONE!

[The Showstoppa]

Guys like Hogan & Hellwig would run though their opponents and then that was it.
Meanwhile, Flair could revisit feuds - even with guys like Ricky Morton!
Flair may not be so popular in the locker room these days, but all those guys could take notes from him: Flair understood the value of making himself AND his opponents look good, which benefitted EVERYONE!

Ab-so-freakin'-lutely !!!!!!!  Flair always put over his opponent, win or lose and that separates him from Hogan and Hellwig who's characters depended on them winning ALL the time, same with Goldberg too.  I remember hearing Flair talk about it one time saying that he wanted the top guy in each territory to be a "threat" to him every time he went to the territory.  It just made business sense and he "got it."  Hogan was just fed a new monster each month that VKM would bring in and after losing to Hogan he would job all the way to the urinals in the mens room for the rest of his WWF run.  It also killed them going somewhere else and anybody caring about them again.

[Montague]

Ab-so-freakin'-lutely !!!!!!!  Flair always put over his opponent, win or lose and that separates him from Hogan and Hellwig who's characters depended on them winning ALL the time, same with Goldberg too.  I remember hearing Flair talk about it one time saying that he wanted the top guy in each territory to be a "threat" to him every time he went to the territory.  It just made business sense and he "got it."  Hogan was just fed a new monster each month that VKM would bring in and after losing to Hogan he would job all the way to the urinals in the mens room for the rest of his WWF run.  It also killed them going somewhere else and anybody caring about them again.

In less than 12 months time, Bundy went from main-eventing WM in Chicago to working a mixed tag with the midgets in Detroit.
But, he saved his money and didn't have to stick around for the daft shit.

He did make several sporadic WWF returns and even works some indy event today, but I don't get the impression the guy is starving.

[The Showstoppa]

In less than 12 months time, Bundy went from main-eventing WM in Chicago to working a mixed tag with the midgets in Detroit.
But, he saved his money and didn't have to stick around for the daft shit.

He did make several sporadic WWF returns and even works some indy event today, but I don't get the impression the guy is starving.

No pun intended right? 

He is one of the very few who understood to save because you weren't going to get a second run during that time period. 

[Montague]

No pun intended right?  

He is one of the very few who understood to save because you weren't going to get a second run during that time period.  

Ha! I didn't think of it that way until now.
But, both are correct, actually.

I've only heard good things about Bundy, including his level-headedness.
The one promotion I worked for brought him in for a show.
He worked heel, but was VERY nice to the fans, taking pictures with kids in the ring during intermission, etc.
Kayfabe was a moot point by then.