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Author Topic: Leg Training Help? Glutes getting sore, not quads. Leg Press position maybe?  (Read 2840 times)
Thoth
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« on: February 15, 2012, 12:35:38 PM »

When I first began bodybuilding and leg training my legs and glutes would both be sore the next day.  The leg press I used in the begining was the Cybex leg press, the same one in Dorian's Blood and Guts movie.  Still to this day I have not found a better leg press.  Anyway, when I use to use that one I knew back then that if your feet were placed higher up on the platform your hamstrings and glutes were hit and if your feet were placed lower your quads were hit.  I always kept my feet were my heels were lined up with the black traction material thingy, at the very bottom.  In other words I know my feet placement was good.  But every time I'd have a leg workout my legs would be fried the next day, the second day even worse.  Loved it.

Now of course the gym I train at doesn't have this leg press.  They have one of the more modern ones, not sure who it's made by.  But it's not just this leg press.  It's the leg press at other gyms in my area as well.  Every time I complete a leg workout the next day my quads are never sore, only my glutes.  And believe me, it's not my feet placement.  I never go to high with them.  I usually always keep my feet spread apart about shoulder width or just inside shoulder width.  I do this for all leg training, well except for hacks, ever so often I'll move my feet in a little closer for those.

I know I said "Leg Press", but it's really not just the leg press that's causing this.  I usually always start off with a few sets of extensions, then do about 4 to 6 sets of leg press.  Then I'll do hack squats.  I guess I say leg press because it's the bread and butter of my workouts.  At times I'll start off with leg presses then hacks, then finish off with extensions.  But no matter what I do, the next day, it's always glutes that are sore, never my quads like they use to be.

So, I'm almost 100% positive it's not my feet placement, at least not on leg presses.  So that leaves two, maybe three other things.  This is what I wanted to get your opinion on.  We'll go ahead and say 3 things just to make it look official.  Okay, so lets look at what 3 things it could be:

1.  Shoes.  I always push through my heels on all leg workouts.  I also always wear Nike Shox or something similar to train in.  You know, your basic jacked up-in-the-heels tennis shoe.  Could this be the problem?  I don't think so, I was actually going to leave this one out, but still figured I'd ask.  Seemed like when my quads did get sore back in the day I still wore a similar shoe though.  Thoughts?  Or what's the best tennis shoe or training shoe to wear for training legs?

2.  This one could be a possibility.  Not my feet placement vertically, but horizontally.  In other words, could the width of my feet placement be causing this?  I know that this usually has to do with hiting certain parts of the thigh (close feet=outer quad, wide feet=inner, narrow/insider shoulder width=whole quad, etc).  So surely this couldn't be why, but then again maybe there's something i'm overlooking.  Thoughts?  Is it feet width distance?

3.  Personally, this is what I think it is.  Want to hear your opinion's especially on this one.  Okay, knee placement.  When I place my feet on the platform I do turn my toes out slightly, then I let my knees align with them, possibly even letting them point further outside then they should.  Don't get me wrong, it's not extreme or anything like that, but still this could make a huge difference, even an ALL quad exercises.  

Lets use this as an example.  Lets say your knees are pointed outward to the point where if you were to go all the way down, instead of your knees stopping on your chest or stomach, they would naturally flow out towards your arms or sides.  The other way would be their not pointed out, nor in.  Just to the point were they are pointed straight up to the ceiling and if your were to have your feet spaced shoulder width apart and let your legs go all the way down they would basically touch your chest or delts.  If your feet were closer together then of course your stomach or chest would stop them.  See what i'm saying?

So if the knees are just ever so slightly pointed out, could this be what's bringing the glutes more into play instead of the quads?  Should I focus on keeping my knees more "center" or pointed up to the ceiling and not let them jut out even ever so slightly?  What do you guys think?  Is this the problem?

Now of course if I didn't name something or I'm leaving something out, please feel free to share.  This is driving me crazy and seriously impending my leg development/training.  Any help you guys can offer would truly be a blessing in disguise.  I think it's because of the knee thing, and I think something that little has a greater impact then I ever realized hence the reason I never really paid that much attention to it.  But, like I said, I open for all suggestions or help to get this problem fixed.  Remember, it's not just leg press, it seems to be doing this no matter what I do.

Thanks guys,
Thoth
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 03:00:43 PM »

Cliffs Huh
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 03:29:59 PM »

Personally I am not a big fan of the leg press, but I won't try to convince you that front squats will build the quads better and quicker.

 The one thing you left out is the seat position. The seat has to be as upright as possible to hit the quads as hard as the machine you are using will allow. If you feel like you cant get the depth you need with the seat in the most upright position you are going to have to work on your flexibility. You already know about the foot width and position on the platform so I won't go over that. Also I would focus on not locking out the knees at the top, maintain a slight bend and focus on pumping out reps without resting at the top. Also wouldn't go lower than 10 reps per set ( 10-20 should work well ) which will help on focusing on the pumping style reps. If I were you I would also try the sets across approach, basically using the same weight for all of your work sets. Set up a set/rep range like       4x 10-15   and after warming up use a weight that allows you to complete all of the sets in that rep range. When you can hit 15 reps on all 4 sets, bump up the weight. If you have never tried an approach like this with legs dont be surprised if you feel like leaving the gym as soon as you are done.
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 04:30:52 PM »

i didn't read your whole post... but if you can't get your quads to do work just switch to 5 simple leg exercises (I would train calves separately)...

warm up (jog, whatever)
Squats - 5 sets, reps: 20/15/12/12/10 (you need to break parallel, preferably with your heels on the floor, use a stance slightly wider than you shoulders with your feet 'ducked' out at 45 degrees)
Front Squats - 4 sets, reps: 15/15/12/12 (feet within 12 inches, go deeper than the squats)
Leg extensions - 3 sets, reps: 15/15/15 (squeeze your quads on each reps)
Walking Lunges (with barbell) - 3 sets, reps: 12/12/12 (don't have to touch knee to the floor but get within 8 inches)
Hamstring Curls - 5 sets, reps: 8/10/12/15/25 (reverse pyramid starting with heavier weight and getting lighter)


this is how you build legs... it fucking hurts, it fucking sucks and every bodybuilder in the history of bodybuilding HATES leg day.... but that's how you do it
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 05:06:11 PM »

Cliffs Huh


Hey, you're a mod.
Suck it up and earn your paycheck!

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chaos
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 05:24:51 PM »


Hey, you're a mod.
Suck it up and earn your paycheck!


I mod several boards and am grossly underpaid.

Just from thread title I say drop leg presses, do squats.
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 05:27:24 PM »

I mod several boards and am grossly underpaid.


Well, that's your own stupid fault for telling Ron "yes" to a "bulk rate."
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chaos
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 05:32:30 PM »


Well, that's your own stupid fault for telling Ron "yes" to a "bulk rate."
It comes with the benefit of being able to modify smart ass posters comments. Smiley


BTW, did YOU read the post?
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 05:44:07 PM »

It comes with the benefit of being able to modify smart ass posters comments. Smiley


BTW, did YOU read the post?

Yes I did, and I even efficiently extracted all of the key points.


When I first began...

Thanks guys,
Thoth


If you're looking to work quads more and hammies & glutes less, consider incorporating front squats (as per WOOO) and sissy squats (nothing "sissy" about them if done properly). Both of these exercises place a greater percentage of workload on the quadriceps.

And, yes: Dabney Coleman DID guest star on two episodes McMillan & Wife, but as different characters.*


*(Given the length of the OP, Iím sure this question was also asked.)
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 08:22:49 PM »

i didn't read your whole post... but if you can't get your quads to do work just switch to 5 simple leg exercises (I would train calves separately)...

warm up (jog, whatever)
Squats - 5 sets, reps: 20/15/12/12/10 (you need to break parallel, preferably with your heels on the floor, use a stance slightly wider than you shoulders with your feet 'ducked' out at 45 degrees)
Front Squats - 4 sets, reps: 15/15/12/12 (feet within 12 inches, go deeper than the squats)
Leg extensions - 3 sets, reps: 15/15/15 (squeeze your quads on each reps)
Walking Lunges (with barbell) - 3 sets, reps: 12/12/12 (don't have to touch knee to the floor but get within 8 inches)
Hamstring Curls - 5 sets, reps: 8/10/12/15/25 (reverse pyramid starting with heavier weight and getting lighter)


this is how you build legs... it fucking hurts, it fucking sucks and every bodybuilder in the history of bodybuilding HATES leg day.... but that's how you do it
pretty much my standard leg day i only add stiff legged dead lift as well....
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 05:12:33 PM »

pretty much my standard leg day i only add stiff legged dead lift as well....

if it ain't broke don't fix it
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 11:35:18 AM »

maybe your pushing too much weight,,,, i use much less than i could actualy move if you get my drift and go for higher reps 15 to 25, you might not look such a beast with a few plates missing each side, but slow deliberate negatives at higher reps sting like fuck

try placing you feet higher, all the machines and angles are all different, everyone feels them differently

you could try working out in reverse fashion too, calves, hamstrings then quads..ive been doing this last few years and it seems to smooth out all my pressing
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 08:02:11 PM »

legs i mean real leg training not few set of extensions or ham curls the weekend warrioirs do between the endless bicep curls and chest presses ,,like wooo wrote  detailed and full leg workout with sets,reps,angles,heavy weight but crisp ,full,reps,squeezing ,,is whts needed week end and out for yrs to get full,detailed,developed legs.it is the most painful pump and fter workout feeling of 'lazy'legs fatigue you will ever feel,pure heaven on a gym standpoint.
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 11:39:16 PM »

i used to train legs like woo described...   couple sets of extensions to warm up, 4 sets squats, 4 sets hacks, 4 sets leg press, finish up with 4 sets extensions...  for quads alone..    it worked good when i first started...   but nowdays if i do more than a few good sets my legs dont respond..
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2012, 05:25:06 AM »

i used to train legs like woo described...   couple sets of extensions to warm up, 4 sets squats, 4 sets hacks, 4 sets leg press, finish up with 4 sets extensions...  for quads alone..    it worked good when i first started...   but nowdays if i do more than a few good sets my legs dont respond..

i'm not saying you have to lift like that forever either, i certainly do not anymore... i'm just suggesting that those movements are the foundation of leg development... sets and reps are my suggestion and may not be best for all
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2012, 10:22:33 AM »

Everyone's body mechanics are different. Squats, for most, can build quads and total leg size. Others, not so much. This is where the focus falls away from the quads and more to the thighs, hams,hips and glutes.(just to mention, the leg press is not the most ideal movement for building the  quads).

Want to shift the work load to the quads and avoid any flatfooted version of a leg exercise, for now anyway. As others have suggested ( from WOOO..hope I spell his name that right), the front squat (a exercise worth taking the time to master) can be rewarding. Wearing those jacked up heel can make it even more rewarding. Or have the heels placed on a 2X2 and/or a pair of BB plates. Another movement that will direct the muscle workload to the quads is the BB Hack squat, having the heels raised again.  Doing one or both of these exercise in a leg workout, 3X7-10 may prove helpful. Sissy squats (Montague's suggestion) can also be very helpful, if just for the super stretch alone. They give a whole new feel to leg training.

Leg extension would be used only as a warm-up effort. As would doing ham string stretches, which also affect the lower back. Might try these stretches with the toes on a (again) 2X4 or BB plates. Getting a much better effect on the hams themselves. And , in some cases, affect calf development as well. Good Luck.
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