Hey everyone, looking for advices from Vets

[shreddedtobones]

Hi, I'm new here but I've been researching on gears for close to a year while training for 2. My goal is different from a lot of people here as I want to achieve a body similar to Greg Plitt.

I also want to point out that I don't plan on staying on forever and I don't want to end up with HRT/TRT when I'm older so I'll be cycling (for the moment at least.. maybe I'll change my mind one day)

Anyway, here's my first cycle:

 Kigs or Novo HGH 5iu/ED (Start pinning HGH one month earlier to see how I feel on it) -> Plan is to inject 5iu/ED for 6 months at least.
*NOT SURE YET* Frontload Test E 1000mg / 1 or 2 weeks (I'm still not sure about proper frontload, I need to research more)
 Test E 500mg  (2x 250mg/week) 1-12 week
 Tbol 50mg ED  1-6 week
 Anavar 60mg ED for 6-12 week
(Supplement with liver protection because of orals - but I heard it doesn't do much, still better than nothing!)
 Arimidex on hands in case of unwanted side effects

For PCT I plan on using the PoWeR PCT Program by Dr. Michael Scally:

 HCG 2500iu EOD for 16 days
 Nolva 20mg ED for 45 days
 Clomi 100mg ED for 30 days


Questions:
1) Should I taper off my orals? Like start 20mg ED, and slowly increase?
2) Should I take off Anavar and switch it with something else (or nothing at all)? I heard Anavar isn't as great as it's praised.
3) On other forums (that I do not recommend btw), they always say to start PCT 14 days after injection to make sure there is nothing left in your system. But on the PCT program I plan to follow, they said to start the program after drug cessation. Does this mean I wait 14 days like recommend on other forums?

I know you guys aren't praising PCTs at all but I'm pretty sure at least one of you is knowledgeable.

Thanks a lot for your help and I'm glad I was finally accepted in the thunderdome after lurking for so long! 

[hangclean]

dont bother with frontloading the test if you are using orals in the beginning of your cycle.

[efanhowz]

thats a lot of hcg. be careful bc i always get gyno flare ups during pct

[Luolamies]

If this is your first cycle don't use so many different drugs, down the line you wont know what drugs suits you or give you issues...

Hgh then add test like you wrote after at least 6 weeks you can add another drug so you know how you react to it. Also, with all that nolva+clomid you don't need hcg, but if you want to use it, cut the dosage to 1000 iu e3d max.

[Marshdogg]

If this is your first cycle don't use so many different drugs, down the line you wont know what drugs suits you or give you issues...

Hgh then add test like you wrote after at least 6 weeks you can add another drug so you know how you react to it. Also, with all that nolva+clomid you don't need hcg, but if you want to use it, cut the dosage to 1000 iu e3d max.

This.

If anything, just stack 2 or test with hgh.

Don't play with your health, but use whats available in your area.

[Exal]

You need to cut that HCG value by a factor 10 down to 250ius or else you will have major problems, going that high could make your shutdown worse. If you are already planning on buying that huge amount of HCG(you have enough for 250ius EOD for 15ish weeks) then just use it during the cycle to prevent shutdown, I used HCG during my first cycle and balls stayed normal thoughout the cycle and I didn't have any crash after stopping with just standard 20mg nolva for PCT...

My cycle was
1-12 weeks 500mg Test E
1-6 weeks 50mg T-bol
4-20 weeks 250iu HCG E3D
and 20mg ED nolva from week 16-20

went from 165lbs to 191lbs and was 187lbs 6 months after i finished PCT

[Rearden Metal]

Looks ok. I'd drop the anavar though. I think NPP is a drug that will help you get the look you're going after, more so than test. Maybe if you need to put on some size first go with test, but in future cycles I'd do something like :

- 75-100mg test prop EOD
- 100mg NPP ED
- 50mg turinabol ED (up to 100mg and back down if wanted)

Then when you want to get super sharp drop the test and add masteron for finishing touches.

[Treninghard]

Looks ok. I'd drop the anavar though. I think NPP is a drug that will help you get the look you're going after, more so than test. Maybe if you need to put on some size first go with test, but in future cycles I'd do something like :

- 75-100mg test prop EOD
- 100mg NPP ED
- 50mg turinabol ED (up to 100mg and back down if wanted)

Then when you want to get super sharp drop the test and add masteron for finishing touches.

how long should you run tbol for ?

[shreddedtobones]

If this is your first cycle don't use so many different drugs, down the line you wont know what drugs suits you or give you issues...

Hgh then add test like you wrote after at least 6 weeks you can add another drug so you know how you react to it. Also, with all that nolva+clomid you don't need hcg, but if you want to use it, cut the dosage to 1000 iu e3d max.

Alright thanks! I want to add an oral tho like tbol to jumpstart.

You need to cut that HCG value by a factor 10 down to 250ius or else you will have major problems, going that high could make your shutdown worse. If you are already planning on buying that huge amount of HCG(you have enough for 250ius EOD for 15ish weeks) then just use it during the cycle to prevent shutdown, I used HCG during my first cycle and balls stayed normal thoughout the cycle and I didn't have any crash after stopping with just standard 20mg nolva for PCT...

My cycle was
1-12 weeks 500mg Test E
1-6 weeks 50mg T-bol
4-20 weeks 250iu HCG EOD
and 20mg ED nolva from week 16-20

went from 165lbs to 191lbs and was 187lbs 6 months after i finished PCT

Very nice! Your cycle is pretty much what I want to try out as my first time. Btw, why did you start taking Nolva 1 month after your last injection? I might give your cycle a shot. Thanks!

Looks ok. I'd drop the anavar though. I think NPP is a drug that will help you get the look you're going after, more so than test. Maybe if you need to put on some size first go with test, but in future cycles I'd do something like :

- 75-100mg test prop EOD
- 100mg NPP ED
- 50mg turinabol ED (up to 100mg and back down if wanted)

Then when you want to get super sharp drop the test and add masteron for finishing touches.

Thanks for the info! I thought Tren A was a major component to get the look I'm going after. Does NPP work good with Test E? I'm asking this because I want to reduce pinning to a minimum IF possible but if not I'll just man the f*ck up and pin more.

[uetone]

Why two oral drugs ??
If it's your first cycle and you don't want to pin yourself every/everyother day, why don't you go with test and eq ? more eq less test

1-12 300mg test
1-12 500-600mg eq

sound's pretty good to me, no excess bloating, lot's of strenght n lean mass

[shreddedtobones]

Why two oral drugs ??
If it's your first cycle and you don't want to pin yourself every/everyother day, why don't you go with test and eq ? more eq less test

1-12 300mg test
1-12 500-600mg eq

sound's pretty good to me, no excess bloating, lot's of strenght n lean mass

My goal with my first cycle was to gain mass and then cut down using Anavar while keeping strength up but then I realized I should just cut down to 8-9% BF before cycling, and focus my cycle on gaining quality lean mass without excess bloating.

I read Test/Tbol produces very good result in lean mass without excess bloating for a starter but I never thought about doing EQ. I will research more as I pretty much know nothing about it. What's the dosing for eq? 2 * 250mg/week, 1 * 500mg/week?

Thanks!

[Rearden Metal]

how long should you run tbol for ?

6-8 weeks is fine. Shorter ok too.

[uetone]

My goal with my first cycle was to gain mass and then cut down using Anavar while keeping strength up but then I realized I should just cut down to 8-9% BF before cycling, and focus my cycle on gaining quality lean mass without excess bloating.

I read Test/Tbol produces very good result in lean mass without excess bloating for a starter but I never thought about doing EQ. I will research more as I pretty much know nothing about it. What's the dosing for eq? 2 * 250mg/week, 1 * 500mg/week?

Thanks!

I really think that the way fella, go for 6-10% than think about lean gains.
Dosage of EQ goes from 300 to 1000-1-2...../wk... 400mg/500mg it's fine.

[shreddedtobones]

Alright! So, now I'm wondering between Test/EQ or Test/Tbol as my first cycle. I've read good things about both.

Since my goal with my first cycle is to gain quality lean mass, is EQ better than Tbol to achieve this?

[local hero]

I really think that the way fella, go for 6-10% than think about lean gains.
Dosage of EQ goes from 300 to 1000-1-2...../wk... 400mg/500mg it's fine.

why on earth should he diet before he starts gear?, he'll loose whatever muscle he has in doing so, much easier to get in shape while on cycle than other way round

reardons drug advices are spot on for you at this moment in time....

also, i dont hink youl need such a dramatic pct,,, in my early 20's i never used anything post cycle and recovered just fine

[uetone]

why on earth should he diet before he starts gear?, he'll loose whatever muscle he has in doing so, much easier to get in shape while on cycle than other way round

reardons drug advices are spot on for you at this moment in time....

also, i dont hink youl need such a dramatic pct,,, in my early 20's i never used anything post cycle and recovered just fine

mate,if someone have high bf%... it is so much easy er to get lean then grow lean than get big and fat and after the cycle try to get lean, he will certainly loose large amount of mass (since the hormones are low and besides that he will be on a caloric deficit diet).

[Exal]

The reason I started nolva 4 weeks after ending the testosterone injections is that; that is the time when your testosterone levels start dipping below natural levels, so you are able to start getting your system into gear again. This is also the reason I started the HCG 4 weeks into the cycle, that is when you will start being shut down by the testosterone that you have been injecting. I also ran a weak anti aromatase during the cycle to prevent any estrogen related side effects, but that is pretty optional, depending on how you respond to too much estrogen.

[shreddedtobones]

why on earth should he diet before he starts gear?, he'll loose whatever muscle he has in doing so, much easier to get in shape while on cycle than other way round

reardons drug advices are spot on for you at this moment in time....

also, i dont hink youl need such a dramatic pct,,, in my early 20's i never used anything post cycle and recovered just fine

Thanks for your opinion local hero!

I'm currently at 168lbs around 18% BF. I was fat when I was a kid and then lost some and gained a bit of muscle but I have the skinny-fat look at the moment. I started cutting 1 week ago using EC stack to preserve the small lean mass I have and get to at least 10% (or when I see my abs relaxed). By doing so I will be able to focus strictly on gaining quality lean mass while cycling and not switch between gaining mass and losing fat. Also, isn't someone with a high BF% have greater chance of estrogen side effects?

I thought about doing a cycle of  ripped mix(50mg test prop,50mg tren a,50mg drost prop) to recomp my body but I'm not sure about the tren on a first cycle. I heard shutdown is more intense with tren than just test/oral or test/eq.

Also, I think you're right with the PCT protocol. I'll do as Exal did instead. Btw, I'm 20 years old.

The reason I started nolva 4 weeks after ending the testosterone injections is that; that is the time when your testosterone levels start dipping below natural levels, so you are able to start getting your system into gear again. This is also the reason I started the HCG 4 weeks into the cycle, that is when you will start being shut down by the testosterone that you have been injecting. I also ran a weak anti aromatase during the cycle to prevent any estrogen related side effects, but that is pretty optional, depending on how you respond to too much estrogen.

I see, thanks for the info! I'll note it and will use this protocol when I start my cycle.  

[Exal]

I would just try to keep it as simple as possible as other people have been saying, you will see some amazing changes to your body regardless, save the fancy steroids for later when you have more experience. You will have many many chances to juice up in the future