Author Topic: Should Churches pay taxes?  (Read 1612 times)

OzmO

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Should Churches pay taxes?
« on: February 20, 2012, 07:19:31 PM »
discuss


http://atheism.about.com/od/churchestaxexemptions/a/churchexemption.htm
Tax Exemptions Available to Churches

America’s tax laws are designed to favor non-profit and charitable institutions which presumably benefit the community. The buildings of private schools and universities, for example, are exempt from property taxes. Donations to charities like the Red Cross are tax deductible. Organizations which engage in medical or scientific research can take advantage of favorable tax laws. Environmental groups can raise tax-free funds by selling books.

Churches, however, tend to benefit the most from the various tax exemptions available, in particular because they qualify for many of them automatically, whereas non-religious groups have to go through a more complicated application and approval process. Non-religious groups also have to be more accountable for where their money goes, while churches, in order to avoid possibly excessive entanglements between church and state, do not have to submit financial disclosure statements.

Tax benefits for religious organizations fall into three general categories: tax-free donations, tax-free land and tax-free commercial enterprises. The first two are much easier to defend and arguments against permitting them are much weaker. The latter, however, often creates problems.

 

Tax-free Donations: Donations to churches function just like the tax-free donations one might make to any non-profit organization or community group: whatever a person donates is subtracted from their total income before taxes are calculated. This is supposed to encourage people to give more and better support to such groups, which presumably are providing benefits to the community that the government now does not need to be responsible for.

 

Tax-Free Land: Exemptions from property taxes represent an even larger benefit to churches — there may be as much as $100 billion dollars in untaxed church property in the United States. This creates a problem, according to some, because the tax exemption amounts to a gift of money to the churches at the expense of tax payers. For every dollar which the government cannot collect on church property, it must make up for by collecting it from citizens; thus all citizens are forced to indirectly support churches, even those they do not belong to and may even oppose.

Unfortunately, this indirect violation of the separation of church and state may be necessary in order to avoid a very direct violation of the free exercise of religion. The taxation of church property would put churches more directly at the mercy of the government because the power to tax is, in the long run, the power to control or even destroy.

By removing church property from the power of the state to tax, church property is also removed from the power of the state to directly interfere with. Thus, a hostile government would find it more difficult to interfere with an unpopular or minority religious group. Small local communities sometimes have bad track records with showing tolerance towards new and unusual religious groups; giving them more power over such groups would not be a good idea.

Nevertheless, none of that changes the fact that property tax exemptions are a problem. Not only are citizens forced to indirectly support religious organizations, but some groups benefit much more than others, resulting in problematic religious favoritism. Some institutions, like the Catholic and Mormon churches, have billions of dollars in property whereas others, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, own much, much less.

There is also, unfortunately, the real problem of fraud. Some people tired of high property taxes will send away for mail-order “divinity” diplomas and claim that, because they are now ministers, their personal property is exempt from taxes. The problem got to be enough that in 1981, New York State passed a law declaring mail-order religious exemptions to be illegal.

Even some religious leaders agree that the property tax exemptions are problematic. Eugene Carson Blake, a former head of the National Council of Churches, complained once that tax exemptions ended up putting a greater tax burden on the poor who could least afford it. He feared that one day, the people might turn against their wealthy churches and demand restitution.

The idea that wealthy churches have abandoned their true mission also bothered James Pike, a former Episcopal bishop in San Francisco. According to him, some churches have become much too involved with money and other worldly matters, blinding them to the spiritual calling which should be their focus.

Some groups, like the American Jewish Congress, have made donations to local governments in place of the taxes which they do not have to pay. This shows that they truly are concerned with the entire local community, not simply their own members or congregation, and that they are interested in supporting the government services which they use.

Agnostic007

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 08:37:19 PM »
yes

Straw Man

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 08:45:55 PM »
absolutely

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 01:54:58 AM »
yep, as should houses of worship from every religion.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 03:31:48 AM »
Good, let's make colleges, charities, planned parenthood, Sierra club, media matters, all pay taxes too! 

loco

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 06:25:35 AM »
yes

absolutely

yep, as should houses of worship from every religion.

I thought you guys were for separation of church and state.    ???

You want churches to start endorsing political candidates and campaigning for them?  They can't do that now, you know?

Like 333386 said, should you tax all other charities as well?

dario73

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 06:59:35 AM »
No problem.

Now, along with accepting those dollars, the whole nation will have to accept an even greater participation by religious groups in politics and the laws of this country. Some of you might argue that they participate now. Mark my words. Once they get taxed, every religious group, no matter what denomination they might be, will unite and will be more motivated than ever before to change the political arena.

Are you ready for a greater movement than you have ever seen in your life to get Roe vs Wade overturned, prayer put back in the schools and more religious leaders running for office and GETTING ELECTED?

Be careful of what you wish for. You want those dollars, you better be ready to accept the consequences.

loco

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 07:01:46 AM »
No problem.

Now, along with accepting those dollars, the whole nation will have to accept an even greater participation by religious groups in politics and the laws of this country. Some of you might argue that they participate now. Mark my words. Once they get taxed, every religious group, no matter what denomination they might be, will unite and will be more motivated than ever before to change the political arena.

Are you ready for a greater movement than you have ever seen in your life to get Roe vs Wade overturned, prayer put back in the schools and more religious leaders running for office and GETTING ELECTED?

Be careful of what you wish for. You want those dollars, you better be ready to accept the consequences.

dario ain't lying!

Agnostic007

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 07:02:21 AM »
I thought you guys were for separation of church and state.    ???

You want churches to start endorsing political candidates and campaigning for them?  They can't do that now, you know?

Like 333386 said, should you tax all other charities as well?

SOme already endorse candidates.. but the question was "Do you think churches should pay taxes?" And yes I do.

loco

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 07:04:17 AM »
SOme already endorse candidates.. but the question was "Do you think churches should pay taxes?" And yes I do.

Not true.  They can't endorse candidates.  If they do, they lose their tax exemption.

Do you think all other charities should pay taxes as well?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 07:05:26 AM »
SOme already endorse candidates.. but the question was "Do you think churches should pay taxes?" And yes I do.

Good - lets tax the PBA too!   When those fuckers call me for a donation I hang up on them and tell them to go hell.  

I would love to tax the shit out planned parenthood, NPR, media matters, WWF, sierra club, river keepers, Green Peace, NOW, etc.      

Agnostic007

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 07:45:26 AM »
Good - lets tax the PBA too!   When those fuckers call me for a donation I hang up on them and tell them to go hell.  

I would love to tax the shit out planned parenthood, NPR, media matters, WWF, sierra club, river keepers, Green Peace, NOW, etc.      

It's not the PBA calling you, its a shill telemarketer who keeps 80% of all donations. Never give to those folks. Our Association will not solicit money that way.

tu_holmes

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 07:50:10 AM »
No religious entity should be forced to pay taxes. Only because they should have ZERO say in politics.

If a pastor or reverend or anyone get on TV and say anything political they should immediately have to pay taxes.


I do agree that non religious non-profits should pay taxes.

They are just corporations who have to have a zero balance at the end of the year.

After paying their heads hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Fuck them.

dario73

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 08:07:16 AM »
Not true.  They can't endorse candidates.  If they do, they lose their tax exemption.

Do you think all other charities should pay taxes as well?

These people act as if a minister or priest getting up in front of a congregation and mentioning a candidate is the same as lobby groups and corporations donating money to candidates and paying for TV ads.

First of all, most religious leaders in their sermons tend to stay away from speaking about politics and advicing the church goers as to who they should vote. Jeremiah Wright, Jerry Falwell when he was alive and a few others are the exception.

But, once the government starts taxing the religious groups, they will put their resources to actively and publicly promote candidates. Every minister will be given the green light to motivate their congregation and influence them to vote a certain way. Church organizations will be doing their own "get out and vote" campaigns. Their own "acorn" voter registration drives. They will have political ads running all the time in every type of media. Eventually, the churches will come up with their own candidates. Pastors, evangelists, priests, rabbis, and mulim clerics will be running for offices in their respective towns and state. I am not saying they will win the White House, but it won't surprise me when they start winning seats in both houses of Congress.

Some of you want a third party. LOL!! That taxation will give you a third party and a powerful one.  Don't underestimate the resources and the people of these religious groups.

Leave the sleeping giant alone. Trust me.

loco

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 08:22:05 AM »
These people act as if a minister or priest getting up in front of a congregation and mentioning a candidate is the same as lobby groups and corporations donating money to candidates and paying for TV ads.

First of all, most religious leaders in their sermons tend to stay away from speaking about politics and advicing the church goers as to who they should vote. Jeremiah Wright, Jerry Falwell when he was alive and a few others are the exception.

But, once the government starts taxing the religious groups, they will put their resources to actively and publicly promote candidates. Every minister will be given the green light to motivate their congregation and influence them to vote a certain way. Church organizations will be doing their own "get out and vote" campaigns. Their own "acorn" voter registration drives. They will have political ads running all the time in every type of media. Eventually, the churches will come up with their own candidates. Pastors, evangelists, priests, rabbis, and mulim clerics will be running for offices in their respective towns and state. I am not saying they will win the White House, but it won't surprise me when they start winning seats in both houses of Congress.

Some of you want a third party. LOL!! That taxation will give you a third party and a powerful one.  Don't underestimate the resources and the people of these religious groups.

Leave the sleeping giant alone. Trust me.

Dario ain't lying.  Don't poke that wasps nest.

Agnostic007

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 08:29:35 AM »
I think you over estimate just how much people listen to their pastors.. most go for social time

loco

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 08:32:36 AM »
I think you over estimate just how much people listen to their pastors.. most go for social time

Interesting theory.  Where do you get that?  Why is it so only in America?  You don't see people attending church every week for "social time" in other countries. 

Agnostic007

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2012, 08:35:13 AM »
Interesting theory.  Where do you get that?  Why is it so only in America?  You don't see people attending church every week for "social time" in other countries. 

Well, for starters, it's against Catholic teachings to use birth control. No one listens to the Preist.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 08:36:00 AM »
I stopped going to church when they starting pushing that leftist marxist "liberation theology" bullshit. 


Straw Man

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2012, 08:45:22 AM »
Churches are already FULLY INVOLVED with politics in this country so let's stop pretending to be ignorant of that fact

Churces also use the resources of our society which is why they should pay taxes like every other business (which is what they are)


Soul Crusher

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2012, 08:47:03 AM »
Churches are already FULLY INVOLVED with politics in this country so let's stop pretending to be ignorant of that fact

Churces also use the resources of our society which is why they should pay taxes like every other business (which is what they are)



and NOW, Media Matters, Planned parenthood etc are not? 

loco

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2012, 08:50:13 AM »
Churches are already FULLY INVOLVED with politics in this country so let's stop pretending to be ignorant of that fact

Churces also use the resources of our society which is why they should pay taxes like every other business (which is what they are)

How are churches "FULLY INVOLVED with politics"?  Find one, get proof, turn it in, and that one church will lose their tax exemption.

Churches also offer many benefits to society(help to the poor, free counseling, literacy, etc.) that the government otherwise would have to deal with, as if the government needed more.

How is the church a business?

dario73

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2012, 08:51:16 AM »
I think you over estimate just how much people listen to their pastors.. most go for social time

I think you underestimate the group that does listen and I think that you will find that a good portion of those people who go for "socializing" don't see anything wrong with a greater infusion of religion in politics.

HEHEHEH!! In time, after the government taxes them, you will be the first one here bitching about the "religious agenda" in politics and about all these religious wackos getting elected.

loco

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2012, 09:00:21 AM »
Well, for starters, it's against Catholic teachings to use birth control. No one listens to the Preist.

My question was more about your theory that "most go for social time" in America.

As for "Catholic teachings to use birth control", America's church goers are mostly protestant:


"Protestant 51.3%, Roman Catholic 23.9%, Mormon 1.7%, other Christian 1.6%, Jewish 1.7%, Buddhist 0.7%, Muslim 0.6%, other or unspecified 2.5%, unaffiliated 12.1%, none 4% "
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

dario73

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Re: Should Churches pay taxes?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2012, 09:12:50 AM »
Not only that. Look at the uproar over Obama's actions regarding the contraception issue. The church didn't have to do much. All the Catholic church did was send a few letters, talk about it to the media and present their case to the congregation. Obama had to "amend", eventhough it still doesn't go far enough to solve the problem.  It became a huge issue because a lot of the other religious groups united with the Catholic church.

Imagine if they start putting their dollars to work. HEHEHEHEEHEH!!!

Yeah, keep lying to yourselves about who listens and doesn't listen to their religious leader. Tax them. You nitwits will be cursing the day you were born.