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Author Topic: Jesus predicted the coming of the Prophet Muhammad!!..  (Read 5546 times)
Archer77
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« Reply #50 on: February 29, 2012, 04:42:45 PM »


Like I said, take away all the things that are considerred supernatural, bible would still be 100% on point.

Except that it doesn't consider women as equals while also condoning slavery and the abuse and murder of children.  Not to mention that there isn't one thing about Democracy or equality in the entire book.  Its an archaic piece of patriarchal tribalism.  There may be a few good moral precepts in there but that is like finding a penny in pile of shit.  The good stuff isn't exclusive to the bible itself and can be found in many other religions/philosophies, some of which are pre-christian societies.
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A
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« Reply #51 on: February 29, 2012, 04:48:53 PM »

In nomine dei nostri satanas luciferi excelsi!

Let me show you your god



Heartbreaking: Derek Thomas and girlfriend Amanda Post before the tragic accident that took her life and left him with third degree burns covering his body





This is what he allows to happen, even though he can make it stop any moment. So if he really exist, is he worth your worship?

If I ever see any God, which I really doubt I will spit on his face.
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« Reply #52 on: February 29, 2012, 04:51:07 PM »

deciever, no one who believes in god believes that life on this earth is supposed to be without sorrow or suffering. in fact most would would agree that suffering and sorrow are absolutely necessary for the human soul to understand and appreciate an eternity of ecstacy. without experiencing sadness and pain one would be completely incapable of experiencing happiness and pleasure.
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« Reply #53 on: February 29, 2012, 04:54:41 PM »

deciever, no one who believes in god believes that life on this earth is supposed to be without sorrow or suffering. in fact most would would agree that suffering and sorrow are absolutely necessary for the human soul to understand and appreciate an eternity of ecstacy. without experiencing sadness and pain one would be completely incapable of experiencing happiness and pleasure.

Tell me that when you or love of your life is burnt alive and then left with disfigured body.

You can feel pleasure and extasy without pain. God can do that, he can do EVERYTHING.

Ave satan.
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tbombz
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« Reply #54 on: February 29, 2012, 04:57:18 PM »

Tell me that when you or love of your life is burnt alive and then left with disfigured body.

Ave satan.

Life is shitty even for the richest most beautiful people on the planet. having to live without certainty about your fate and mortality is excruciating for all of us.

i dont pity the dead, i pity the living.  death is either a dreamless sleep or an eternity in ecstacy.. both are plainly good. (to quote socrates)


furthermore, those who are less endowed seem to appreciate little things exponentially more than the well endowed appreciate the big things.  think about that.
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« Reply #55 on: February 29, 2012, 05:01:42 PM »

Life is shitty even for the richest most beautiful people on the planet. having to live without certainty about your fate and mortality is excruciating for all of us.

i dont pity the dead, i pity the living.  death is either a dreamless sleep or an eternity in ecstacy.. both are plainly good. (to quote socrates)


furthermore, those who are less endowed seem to appreciate little things exponentially more than the well endowed appreciate the big things.  think about that.

What about living rest of your life in endless pain from burns all over your body? Being disfugured monster, never feeling love from anyone, never ever again kissing, or having sex?

You should embrace satan for the light he gave us.
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« Reply #56 on: February 29, 2012, 05:04:15 PM »

Except that it doesn't consider women as equals while also condoning slavery and the abuse and murder of children.  Not to mention that there isn't one thing about Democracy or equality in the entire book.  Its an archaic piece of patriarchal tribalism.  There may be a few good moral precepts in there but that is like finding a penny in pile of shit.  The good stuff isn't exclusive to the bible itself and can be found in many other religions/philosophies, some of which are pre-christian societies.

god has never murderred children or abused women.

I don't blame science for having bioweapons on this planet that could wipe out nations within minutes, I blame human beings. Or what about the education system then, don't get me started on that  Cheesy, what a mess. Young folks are growing up to actually feel lady gagas influence on society as relevant and they want to strive for that too. I wonder what it's like in 20 years from now if this kind of progress continues because it's now allready sick.

And men and women are not the same. Are you kidding me, unless you turn your brain into a-sexual then yeah, but other than that we are not the same. We need eachother, but as for being mutually the same you can't be serious. Human value is the same.

Bible guidelines for a reason, because human beings are human beings. We can't be gods, we can't be self dependant and we constantly need father figure to tell us what to do. Look at all the icons and dead stuff we look up to for guidance now days because we are so smart.

Also, if we look into medieval age when the world were prety much dominated by pedophile, womanizing war mongering christian kings and priests, it was just plain wrong allready back then. Evil has allways wanted to infiltrate religion to turn people away from it.
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« Reply #57 on: February 29, 2012, 05:05:28 PM »

god has never murderred children or abused women.

I don't blame science for having bioweapons on this planet that could wipe out nations within minutes, I blame human beings.

And men and women are not the same. Are you kidding me, unless you turn your brain into a-sexual then yeah, but other than that we are not the same. We need eachother, but as for being mutually the same you can't be serious. Human value is the same.

Bible guidelines for a reason, because human beings are human beings. We can't be gods, we can't be self dependant and we constantly need father figure to tell us what to do. Look at all the icons and dead stuff we look up to for guidance now days because we are so smart.

Also, if we look into medieval age when the world were prety much dominated by pedophile, womanizing war mongering christian kings and priests, it was just plain wrong allready back then. Evil has allways wanted to infiltrate religion to turn people away from it.


We are far better than god who killed bilions of people in the bible, some of them just for fun, because satan challenged him.
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« Reply #58 on: February 29, 2012, 05:10:29 PM »

We are far better than god who killed bilions of people in the bible, some of them just for fun, because satan challenged him.

I used to shout the same; "your god killed billions of people" but I was proven wrong, god never killed anyone in the bible  Roll Eyes

you should rly look into the story of soddom and gommorah and noah for example when nations were so sinfull that god was truly dissapointed.

And aren't we people killing eachother rather quickly now days? Do you know how many houndreds of millions of people die every single year by war based on money lust?

God said in the bible that god will never interfere on peoples dees no more, but he won't have to because there will come a day when people will destroy themselves and lol it's happening suffucuently now. Not to mention how the globalists want to turn this planet into a full time human farm where we are held as no more than little crickets or some other kind of bugs, all in the name of power and money, not god, wopee.
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« Reply #59 on: February 29, 2012, 05:11:27 PM »

What about living rest of your life in endless pain from burns all over your body? Being disfugured monster, never feeling love from anyone, never ever again kissing, or having sex?

You should embrace satan for the light he gave us.
embrace satan ?  Grin thats a paradox bro.  the existence of satan would indicate the existence of god. why worship satan when you have the option to worship god?  Grin

that person who is disfigured.. that would be unfortunate if god didnt exist. but if god does exist then that might even be a blessing ! imagin how much you would love living life in heaven after experiencing life on earth in such a condition.  Wink
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« Reply #60 on: February 29, 2012, 05:27:56 PM »

god has never murderred children or abused women.

I don't blame science for having bioweapons on this planet that could wipe out nations within minutes, I blame human beings. Or what about the education system then, don't get me started on that  Cheesy, what a mess. Young folks are growing up to actually feel lady gagas influence on society as relevant and they want to strive for that too. I wonder what it's like in 20 years from now if this kind of progress continues because it's now allready sick.

And men and women are not the same. Are you kidding me, unless you turn your brain into a-sexual then yeah, but other than that we are not the same. We need eachother, but as for being mutually the same you can't be serious. Human value is the same.

Bible guidelines for a reason, because human beings are human beings. We can't be gods, we can't be self dependant and we constantly need father figure to tell us what to do. Look at all the icons and dead stuff we look up to for guidance now days because we are so smart.

Also, if we look into medieval age when the world were prety much dominated by pedophile, womanizing war mongering christian kings and priests, it was just plain wrong allready back then. Evil has allways wanted to infiltrate religion to turn people away from it.


He murdered all the first born Egyptian children.
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« Reply #61 on: February 29, 2012, 06:44:02 PM »

The Blessed Prophet Upon Whom Be Peace , was mentioned/prophecised in every Holy Book (Book of David , Moses and Jesus , Upon them be peace and May Almighty Be pleased with them) and by every Prophet who came To us

Even Buddha spoke of the coming of the "Maitrya" meaning  "Mercy".Which is the title given to the Blessed Prophet Muhammad -The Mercy Unto Mankind (Upon Whom Be Peace)

You will find it in Hindu scriptures , buddhist , jewish , everywhere

Islam Believe in everyone of your Prophets (Upon them be Peace) , but you do not accept Prophet Muhammad (Upon Whom be peace).And They delivered all the same message 1 God

Science is meant to PROVE the existence of God Almighty, not disprove It
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« Reply #62 on: February 29, 2012, 06:47:52 PM »

He murdered all the first born Egyptian children.
Shoulda had that Lamb's blood over their doors...Also, dont't fuck with Moses---he walks softly and carries a big shepherd's stick.
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« Reply #63 on: February 29, 2012, 11:23:50 PM »

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA, eat it.



yes my friend and in europe too..

the numbers of those who convert to islam every day are much more than those who convert to any other religion although the numbers of christians overall are more than muslims..
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« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2012, 12:18:51 AM »

all a sign the world is going to shit...
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« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2012, 01:34:37 AM »

Isaiah 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Romans 9:20-21
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


A very wise man understood the things above...notice how Job responds to God...

Job.40:1-5
Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.


Of course, there are those who think their puny pathetic human brain can understand God, and in their mind, he doesnt exist because God isn't what they want him to be.  They think God is doing it all wrong because somehow they are smarter and wiser than him in their own minds. 

Jude 1:16a
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words

Psalm 14:1a
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.


great post!!..
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« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2012, 10:07:32 PM »

LOL!  I guess those who blindly believe in the bible really should do a 180, and blindly believe someone else who knows so much better that its all bull shit!
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« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2012, 03:30:28 PM »

I don't know about that gospel, I'll be honest i did not even read the articles posted. But I read some of the ridiculous posts in here.. some coped with them some didn't but I thought I'd add my piece to the cake.

Jesus prophecized false prophets... and also of one to come... and that how will they be known? By their works and fruits?

If we look at Paul... a Greek Jew... or saul of tarsus... he was a bounty hunter of jews who followed Jesus' original message.. then lo and behold he does a 180 and claims he heard jesus or saw jesus or both in three accounts which don't add up (not credible -- liar)... then on top of that he talks about 'his gospel' and introduces all kinds of pagan beliefs... makes Jesus God, son of God nad all this other non-sense.. debates with Jesus' actual followers... and then we have the church.. which formified the trinity which is no where ot be found in the bible... all later additions. The term trinity is a later addition. The term bible is from biblios for books... there are MANY MORE books as is the point of the original post of this thread. I've read the apocrypha books... HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE (translations).. some of the stuff makes no sense and is probably forgeries obviously but some of the stuff completely ERADICATES the beliefs of the church and hence they were not included. They affirm Jesus is a MAN sent of God, created by God and calling people towards GOD!

Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus and has more to do with Paul, Constantine a roman emperor a pagan, and the church and all its 'councils'.

Jesus' message was simple.. hear ye Israel, your GOD IS ONE! repeating the first commandment. And he was sent to the house of israel, children of israel, not to 'all mankind'.

Lastly, what are the works and FRUITS of paul and the church? Paul corrupted and replaced Jesus' message.. the church well? 1000+ years of 'dark ages'.

On the other hand we look at Muhammad (pbuh) and what are the fruits of his revelation? Affirming what was including Jesus and glorifying him as a mighty messenger of God! And everything else before... and of principle CONTINUING the original message.... and the result afterwards? 1000+ years of the GOLDEN AGE of the islamic age.... and of the jewish age as jewish historians call it the 'golden age' as they prospered under islamic rule while they were still hunted and killed or forcefully converted to christianity by christians from europe.

So honestly.. its a no brainer to me...

And lastly there is an actual mention of Muhammad's prophecy but it is mistranslated into latin into a different word but if you listen to the hebrew recited by a hebrew speaking rabbi you will hear it and know it:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cur_6aYs_7k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cur_6aYs_7k</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbSCYkxRZAg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbSCYkxRZAg</a>
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« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2012, 04:12:57 PM »

Quote
The Opponents of Paul

First century differences in Christianity

Sami Zaatari

 

Throughout the writings of Paul we find about competing and different set of beliefs that are being passed around, and we know this thanks to Paul himself, who condemns and attacks these people for preaching a different message to what he was. The only unfortunate issue is that we don't have the writings of those people, rather we can only rely on Paul, and find about their disagreements through Paul.

The main importance of this is that it shows early differences in first century Christianity, THE very first decades of Christianity itself! Modern day Christians often try to downplay Christian groups that disagree with their doctrine based on their dates, for instance many Christian sect and groups that vastly disagree with orthodox Christianity appeared during the 2nd-4th century, and modern day Christians say since they aren't first century, and come sometime after Jesus, they aren't to be taken too seriously. Although this logic is faulty because there was no official orthodox position until the 4th century! Hence anything between the first century and 4th century could be considered fair game, in fact the term early Christianity denotes the time between the 1st century to the 4th, after the Council of Nicaea!

In this case through, Christians won't be able to play their game, as we are appealing to the very writings of Paul, in the first century, and a couple of decades after Jesus. So with all of that said, let us go into the writings to see the disputes and differences he was having.

We start with the book of Galatians, where Paul writes the following:

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel? which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:6-12)
 
So according to Paul, another Gospel was being preached, and not only was it being preached, but many people were deserting Paul's teaching for this other Gospel! Off course Paul is not too pleased about that, and he condemns the people who are preaching the different Gospel, he claims that they are eternally condemned, and that they are trying to pervert the Gospel message! Paul warns the people, to not dare follow any other Gospel message that is different from his, even if it was an angel giving the message!

What gets more interesting is that Paul begins to try and convince the people that the Gospel he has his is divine, and not from any normal man, but it was revealed to him by Jesus Christ. Obviously he makes this plea because people were beginning to doubt him and his authenticity, yet he is trying to convince the people otherwise, that his message is from Jesus!

Now what could these opponents be preaching? Well we know they were preaching something different to Paul, hence we ask what was Paul preaching? One of the hallmarks of Paul's theology is that the Law doesn't matter anymore, that the Jewish Laws and customs are useless, and it's all about faith and grace now. So we can assume that these opponents were obviously preaching something opposite to this.

In the next chapter we get the context of what Paul is talking about, and WHO Paul is talking about in Galatians chapter two:

Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you. As for those who seemed to be important?whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance?those men added nothing to my message. On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?  "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
 
So in this chapter we see the differences arise again, and this time we see the specific people who are being confronted by Paul, and it happens to be Peter! The very same Peter who was a disciple of Jesus, and said to be the right hand man of Jesus! Paul confronts Peter, and calls Peter a hypocrite! The obvious major disagreement here has to do concerning the Jewish Law, as Paul makes it clear, the Jewish Law in no way saves a person, rather it is by faith in Jesus' sacrifice that people are saved. Obviously this means that Peter and his group were preaching something different, the opposite to this, that the Jewish Law DID matter, and was not as useless as Paul was making it out to be.
 

Now let us not forget, in the previous chapter, Galatians 1, Paul CONDEMNS his opponent, and claims they are perverting the Gospel, now is it possible that these harsh rebukes were in fact directed towards Peter as well? We could speculate about this, and it would seem that Paul is not only talking about Peter, but all those others who are disagreeing with him as well, so we can see major differences arising here.

In fact in the book of Acts were read more about the major disagreements Paul is having:

When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them. When the seven days were nearly over, some Jews from the province of Asia saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, shouting, "Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against our people and our law and this place. And besides, he has brought Greeks into the temple area and defiled this holy place." (They had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian in the city with Paul and assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple area.) The whole city was aroused, and the people came running from all directions. Seizing Paul, they dragged him from the temple, and immediately the gates were shut. While they were trying to kill him, news reached the commander of the Roman troops that the whole city of Jerusalem was in an uproar. He at once took some officers and soldiers and ran down to the crowd. When the rioters saw the commander and his soldiers, they stopped beating Paul. The commander came up and arrested him and ordered him to be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done. Some in the crowd shouted one thing and some another, and since the commander could not get at the truth because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be taken into the barracks. When Paul reached the steps, the violence of the mob was so great he had to be carried by the soldiers. The crowd that followed kept shouting, "Away with him!" (Acts 21:17-36)
 

So according to the above, Paul was summoned to Jerusalem, and they were obviously concerned with what they were hearing about Paul, that he was effectively turning the Jewish Law into nothing, which was true. The situation completely heats up later on when a group of Jewish followers see Paul, and they want to get at him because of his teachings against the Jewish Law, and Paul is eventually forced into protection. So you can see how tense and heated the situation is, this isn't some minor small disagreement we have here, this is a major issue running through the early Christian church.

In fact the situation is so heated that as we saw in the book of Galatians, Paul is eternally condemning his opponents, and warning the people to not follow them!

In Acts 22 we continue to read more about this situation:

"Brothers and fathers, listen now to my defense." When they heard him speak to them in Aramaic, they became very quiet. Then Paul said: "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. Under Gamaliel I was thoroughly trained in the law of our fathers and was just as zealous for God as any of you are today. I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison, as also the high priest and all the Council can testify. I even obtained letters from them to their brothers in Damascus, and went there to bring these people as prisoners to Jerusalem to be punished. "About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, 'Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?' " 'Who are you, Lord?' I asked. "?I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,' he replied. My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me. "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.' 11My companions led me by the hand into Damascus, because the brilliance of the light had blinded me. "A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there. 13He stood beside me and said, 'Brother Saul, receive your sight!' And at that very moment I was able to see him. "Then he said: 'The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.' "When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance and saw the Lord speaking. 'Quick!' he said to me. 'Leave Jerusalem immediately, because they will not accept your testimony about me.' " 'Lord,' I replied, 'these men know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you. And when the blood of your martyr[a] Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.' "Then the Lord said to me, 'Go; I will send you far away to the Gentiles.' " The crowd listened to Paul until he said this. Then they raised their voices and shouted, "Rid the earth of him! He's not fit to live!" As they were shouting and throwing off their cloaks and flinging dust into the air, the commander ordered Paul to be taken into the barracks. He directed that he be flogged and questioned in order to find out why the people were shouting at him like this. As they stretched him out to flog him, Paul said to the centurion standing there, "Is it legal for you to flog a Roman citizen who hasn't even been found guilty?" When the centurion heard this, he went to the commander and reported it. "What are you going to do?" he asked. "This man is a Roman citizen."The commander went to Paul and asked, "Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?" "Yes, I am," he answered. (Acts 22:1-27)

So here Paul tries to explain himself to the Jewish Christians of Jerusalem, and they are having none of it, they all become very agitated at Paul, and eventually Paul escapes punishment because he is a Roman citizen. Many scholars often point to this incident and call this the moment Christianity split, the split between the Jewish Christians and Paul's version of Christianity.

We continue to read about the differences other Christians were having with Paul, this time from 2 Corinthians:

I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.
 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so. As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. (2 Corinthians 11:1-15)

Paul yet again warns the people to be wary of following another Gospel, or following another different Jesus that is being preached! Paul goes on to call these people false apostles, deceitful workers, fakes, and he even likens them to satan!

Now since we don't have the writings of these people we don't really know what they were preaching, but what we do know is that it was something different to what Paul was preaching, as Paul said, they are preaching a different Jesus, a different Gospel. Obviously this means that these Christians had something different, they most likely taught that the Law should be applied, and should be followed, and that it wasn't as useless as Paul was teaching, that salvation was not on faith alone. Anything else is speculation, it could be on a wide range of issues in which they disagreed with Paul, and preached something different, what it was, we don't really know. What we DO KNOW is that these texts prove that there were some serious early disagreements within the early Christian Church, and that there were competing messages being taught.

Christians may simply try to downplay this, but the text doesn't allow them to do so, for if these were some minor disagreements, then Paul would not have been so harsh in his condemnations, and he would not be so eager to make sure that this different message to his was not being accepted and followed. Therefore it's quite clear that there were some major disagreements happening here, and indeed it should be a cause for concern!

In fact according to Philippians chapter 4, Paul claims that many churches rejected him:

Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only (Philippians 4:15)

So there were several Churches rejecting Paul, not wanting to work with him! Now if that's not a major difference then I really don't know what is! And this is from the FIRST CENTURY! A few decades after Jesus!

So let us summarize everything we have:

1-Other gospels and opposing teachings were being made

2-These teachings were gaining followers, and people were abandoning Paul's message

3-Paul condemned his opponents, calling them deceivers, fakes, and likened them to satan

4-Some of Pauls opponents included the disciples, such as Peter, whom Paul confronted and insulted

5-Paul was summoned by the Church in Jerusalem, who themselves had disagreements with Paul, the Christian Jews of Jerusalem under James, forced Paul out of Jerusalem

6-Many Churches were rejecting Paul, and refused to work with him

 So we can clearly see some major disagreements in early Christianity, first century Christianity, just a few decades after Jesus, and many of these Christians who disagreed with Paul eventually became to known as Ebionites, and other early Christian 2nd century groups, their foundations all lied in the first century.

And Allah Knows Best!

www.muslim-responses.com

 

The bold/underlining etc.. is gone from copy pasting :-/ If you want the source here it is for better read:

http://muslim-responses.com/Opposing_Groups/Opposing_Groups_
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2012, 09:42:58 AM »

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/02/26/197060.html

A 1,500-year-old Bible in which Jesus is believed to have foretold the coming of the Prophet Mohammed to Earth has attracted attention from the Vatican this week.

Pope Benedict XVI has reportedly requested to see the book, which has been hidden in Turkey for the last 12 years, according to the Daily Mail.

The text, reportedly worth $22 million, is said to contain Jesus’ prediction of the Prophet’s coming but was suppressed by the Christian Church for years for its strong resemblance to the Islamic view of Jesus, Turkish culture and tourism minister Ertugrul Gunay told the newspaper.

“In line with Islamic belief, the Gospel treats Jesus as a human being and not a God. It rejects the ideas of the Holy Trinity and the Crucifixion and reveals that Jesus predicted the coming of the Prophet Mohammed,” the newspaper reported.

“In one version of the gospel, he is said to have told a priest: ‘How shall the Messiah be called? Mohammed is his blessed name.’

And in another, Jesus denied being the Messiah, claiming that he or she would be Ishmaelite, the term used for an Arab,” the newspaper added.

According to the report, Muslims claim the text, which many say is the Gospel of Barnabas, is an addition to the original gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

St. Barnabas is traditionally identified as the founder of the Cypriot Church, an early Christian later named an apostle.

Gunay said the Vatican has officially requested to see the book, which Turkey had discovered during a police anti-smuggling operation in 2000.

The gang was reportedly convicted of smuggling various items seized during the operation, including the Bible, and all the artifacts were kept in a safe at an Ankara courthouse.

It remained closely guarded by authorities before being handed over to the Ankara Ethnography Museum where it will soon be put on show.

A photocopy of a single page from the leather-bound, gold-lettered book, penned in Jesus’ native Aramaic language is reportedly worth about $2.4 million.

But skepticism over the authenticity of the ancient handwritten manuscript has arisen.

Protestant pastor İhsan Özbek has said this version of the book is said to come from the fifth or sixth century, while St. Barnabas had lived in the first century as one of the Apostles of Jesus.

“The copy in Ankara might have been written by one of the followers of St. Barnabas,” he told the Today Zaman newspaper.

“Since there is around 500 years in between St. Barnabas and the writing of the Bible copy, Muslims may be disappointed to see that this copy does not include things they would like to see … It might have no relation with the content of the Gospel of Barnabas,” Özbek added.

But suspicions could soon be laid to rest.

The real age of the Bible could soon be determined by a scientific scan, theology professor Ömer Faruk Harman told the Daily Mail, possibly clarifying whether it was written by St. Barnabas or a follower of his.

First of all the Gospel of Barnabas is a big fake, fraud with absolutely no credibility among theologians.

Second, in the bold, please give the book and verse.

Third, let's pretend the Bible mentions Mohammad (of course it doesn't) but if it did, do you not realize that the Bible came first, 600 years before Mohammad, so one can argue that Mohammad intentionally was named to fit this scenario, so either way, this proves absolutely NADA

Look at it this way, some prophet says a man named abcd is going to be the next king, so someone reads this and names their child abcd, what in the world would that prove.
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« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2012, 10:12:26 AM »

The bible didn't come '600 years before Muhammad'. Maybe 400 years?

Not to mention the torah is even older.

If you read some of the posts prior, where i quote hebrew recitation of the torah, you will see muhammad mentioned.

There are other verses aluring to a prophet from amongst your brethren, describing muhammad exactly as he came to be. That he would not speak of his own will but the will of God, praising God, etc... I am busy right now otherwise id quote you that too.
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« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2012, 02:49:51 PM »

The bible didn't come '600 years before Muhammad'. Maybe 400 years?

Not to mention the torah is even older.

If you read some of the posts prior, where i quote hebrew recitation of the torah, you will see muhammad mentioned.

There are other verses aluring to a prophet from amongst your brethren, describing muhammad exactly as he came to be. That he would not speak of his own will but the will of God, praising God, etc... I am busy right now otherwise id quote you that too.
You totally missed the point here bro, 600, 400, 1 day makes no difference, I have read the Bible front to back and the Koran front to back as well. What you are referring has no merit among Christians, only Muslims interpret this in this manner.

Anyone could have tried to fit in a description given of someone to come, this holds no weight whatsoever
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« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2012, 02:52:03 PM »

Anyone could be given that but the point is he fit the description.

Secondly those who claim that muhammad is absolutely no where in the bible are wrong, because if you go back to a few of my posts you can see the video of bible verses being read by a rabbi... it indeed is in hebrew and mentions Muhammad by name, not the latin mistranslations:) Look in my past posts.

That is one of the reasons that the majority of the yathrib/madina rabbis accepted him as a prophet. The ones who didn't were angry that it was not a jew that was given prophethood. But the thing is Arabs and Jews are semites, they are cousins... so from amongst your  brethren includes the arabs. They just had too much pride to accept that. They went as far as allying themselves with the idol worshipper arabs to fight the Muslims. Not only against the Muslims but even against the Jews that Muhammad (pbuh) was protecting who did not become Muslim.
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« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2012, 03:19:23 PM »

Anyone could be given that but the point is he fit the description.

Secondly those who claim that muhammad is absolutely no where in the bible are wrong, because if you go back to a few words it indeed is in hebrew Smiley Look in my past posts.

That is one of the reasons that the majority of the yathrib/madina rabbis accepted him as a prophet. The ones who didn't were angry that it was not a jew that was given prophethood. But the thing is Arabs and Jews are semites, they are cousins... so from amongst your  brethren includes the arabs. They just had too much pride to accept that.
I am fully aware of what you are referring to, in Hebrew some word in a prayer spells out Muhammad I know that but what I am saying is anyone can pick a prayer in the Psalms and and get a Hebrew word from that prayer then name their child that Hebrew word then claim "look the name of my Child is in the scripture" , you see what I am saying

and what is the verse of the description of Muhammad cause I am pretty sure it is a very vague description and you guy try to high jack the meaning.

Look you want a real prophesy, take Jesus as an example; 600+ prophetic verses and points, here is a few;

born in Bethleham
called a Nazerene
born of a virgin
from the tribe of Judah
from the house of David
Children massacre after his birth
come out of Egypt
mission would include the gentiles
miraculous healings performed
despised and rejected by men
reject by his own brothers
rejected by rulers
Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver
Silver used to buy field
His stripes and chastisement
like a lamb to the slaughter
feet and hands nailed
vinegar to drink
no broken bones
garments gambled
buried in a rich man's tomb
back from the dead

Those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head, there are way more and that is what you call a prophesy not some Hebrew word mention in a prayer that some Muslim decided to name a man after that word 600 years later and some vague description that nearly a 1000 people could fall under.

Trust me when the Bible intends to prophesy something it does it multiple times and in grand fashion and bombards the issue over and over, thus is the way of the scripture regarding prophesy. I hate to burst your bubble but there is no intended prophesy of Muhammad, if there were we would have 100's of verses and multiple prophesies as is shown in all other prophesies.
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