Why is having birth control paid for a right?

[Straw Man]

Sigh... Youre arguing semantics trying to not look like an idiot - her stated GOAL, is for government to MANDATE that contraceptives have to be covered by health insurance, that means EVERYONES premiums will go up in order for her and women like her to be able to fuck as much as they want on OUR dime. Thats the point, you fucking idiot.

excellent work

can you provide me a source or a link because I haevn't been able to find it yet everyone seems to know exactly what she said

thanks

[George Whorewell]

LOL - giving up so easily ?

how about a little clarification on why you think you're personally paying the group health insurance premiums at Georgetown

Who's talking to you?

Are you jealous that a female temporarily had my attention for 2 posts?

[George Whorewell]

Craig Bannister at CNSNews.com did the math and found that “At a dollar a condom if she shops at CVS pharmacy’s website, that $3,000 would buy her 3,000 condoms – or, 1,000 a year.” Divide 1,000 by 365, and it seems Ms. Fluke wants us to believe Georgetown girls are “having sex 2.74 times a day, every day, for three straight years.” Considering that my friends and I (male and female alike) managed to survive four years of college without having any sex, I don’t think the Georgetown kids cutting down a little is too much to ask

Further, the Weekly Standard’s John McCormack notes:

Birth control pills can be purchased for as low as $9 per month at a pharmacy near Georgetown’s campus. According to an employee at the pharmacy in Washington, D.C.’s Target store, the pharmacy sells birth control pills–the generic versions of Ortho Tri-Cyclen and Ortho-Cyclen–for $9 per month. ”That’s the price without insurance,” the Target employee said. Nine dollars is less than the price of two beers at a Georgetown bar

[Straw Man]

Who's talking to you?

Are you jealous that a female temporarily had my attention for 2 posts?

take your time Georgie

I'm sure you don't get much attention from women so enjoy it while you can

[Skip8282]

And as you know there is plenty of precedent for that, much of which was sponsored, championed, endorsed and signed into law by Republicans just a few years ago

btw - do you have any links to her testimony or what she actually said.    I googled it but all I can find the is Limbaugh stuff

I could care less, it's wrong when either side does it.


I believe the 3G is over the period of a 3 year law degree, not sure.

how about a little clarification on why you think you're personally paying the group health insurance premiums at Georgetown

He didn't say that, you made it up.

And obviously if the government mandates it for all plans, we're obviously all paying for it - at least people covered with a plan.

[George Whorewell]

Straw- One google search entitled "Sandra Fluke transcript" yielded the following: PS Do you know how to tie your shoes, or do you need one of us to do that for you as well?

http://www.whatthefolly.com/2012/02/23/transcript-sandra-fluke-testifies-on-why-women-should-be-allowed-access-to-contraception-and-reproductive-health-care/

[Straw Man]

Craig Bannister at CNSNews.com did the math and found that “At a dollar a condom if she shops at CVS pharmacy’s website, that $3,000 would buy her 3,000 condoms – or, 1,000 a year.” Divide 1,000 by 365, and it seems Ms. Fluke wants us to believe Georgetown girls are “having sex 2.74 times a day, every day, for three straight years.” Considering that my friends and I (male and female alike) managed to survive four years of college without having any sex, I don’t think the Georgetown kids cutting down a little is too much to ask

Further, the Weekly Standard’s John McCormack notes:

Birth control pills can be purchased for as low as $9 per month at a pharmacy near Georgetown’s campus. According to an employee at the pharmacy in Washington, D.C.’s Target store, the pharmacy sells birth control pills–the generic versions of Ortho Tri-Cyclen and Ortho-Cyclen–for $9 per month. ”That’s the price without insurance,” the Target employee said. Nine dollars is less than the price of two beers at a Georgetown bar

I guess if an idiot draws that conclusion it must be true and we must assume that's what she meant in her testimony

It is pretty damn funny to watch Repubs getting so upset about an issue that they fully supported by MANDATE just a few years ago

[George Whorewell]

I guess if an idiot draws that conclusion it must be true and we must assume that's what she meant in her testimony

It is pretty damn funny to watch Repubs getting so upset about an issue that they fully supported by MANDATE just a few years ago

In other words, you have no coherent response or rebuttal, no rational person can defend Sandra Fluke's crusade and you're contemplating suicide.

God's speed Straw.

[Straw Man]

Straw- One google search entitled "Sandra Fluke transcript" yielded the following: PS Do you know how to tie your shoes, or do you need one of us to do that for you as well?

http://www.whatthefolly.com/2012/02/23/transcript-sandra-fluke-testifies-on-why-women-should-be-allowed-access-to-contraception-and-reproductive-health-care/

Thanks Georgie

Now we can all read the shocking demands of this communist and see exactly why Rush felt justified in calling her a slut and a prostitute:

“Leader [Nancy] Pelosi, members of Congress, good morning. And thank you for calling this hearing on women’s health and for allowing me to testify on behalf of the women who will benefit from the Affordable Care Act contraceptive coverage regulation

“My name is Sandra Fluke, and I’m a third-year student at Georgetown Law School. I’m also a past-president of Georgetown Law Students for Reproductive Justice or LSRJ. And I’d like to acknowledge my fellow LSRJ members and allies and all of the student activists with us and thank them so much for being here today.

(Applause)

“We, as Georgetown LSRJ, are here today because we’re so grateful that this regulation implements the non-partisan medical advice of the Institute of Medicine.

“I attend a Jesuit law school that does not provide contraceptive coverage in its student health plan. And just as we students have faced financial, emotional, and medical burdens as a result, employees at religiously-affiliated hospitals and institutions and universities across the country have suffered similar burdens.

“We are all grateful for the new regulation that will meet the critical health care needs of so many women.

“Simultaneously, the recently announced adjustment addresses any potential conflict with the religious identity of Catholic or Jesuit institutions.

“When I look around my campus, I see the faces of the women affected by this lack of contraceptive coverage.


“And especially in the last week, I have heard more and more of their stories. On a daily basis, I hear yet from another woman from Georgetown or from another school or who works for a religiously-affiliated employer, and they tell me that they have suffered financially and emotionally and medically because of this lack of coverage.

“And so, I’m here today to share their voices, and I want to thank you for allowing them – not me – to be heard.

“Without insurance coverage, contraception, as you know, can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school. For a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships, that’s practically an entire summer’s salary. 40% of the female students at Georgetown Law reported to us that they struggle financially as a result of this policy.

“One told us about how embarrassed and just powerless she felt when she was standing at the pharmacy counter and learned for the first time that contraception was not covered on her insurance and she had to turn and walk away because she couldn’t afford that prescription. Women like her have no choice but to go without contraception.

“Just last week, a married female student told me that she had to stop using contraception because she and her husband just couldn’t fit it into their budget anymore. Women employed in low-wage jobs without contraceptive coverage face the same choice.

“And some might respond that contraception is accessible in lots of other ways. Unfortunately, that’s just not true.

“Women’s health clinic provide a vital medical service, but as the Guttmacher Institute has definitely documented, these clinics are unable to meet the crushing demand for these services. Clinics are closing, and women are being forced to go without the medical care they need.

“How can Congress consider the [Rep. Jeff] Fortenberry (R-Neb.), [Sen. Marco] Rubio (R-Fla.) and [Sen. Roy] Blunt (R-Mo.) legislation to allow even more employers and institutions to refuse contraception coverage and then respond that the non-profit clinics should step up to take care of the resulting medical crisis, particularly when so many legislators are attempting to de-fund those very same clinics?

“These denial of contraceptive coverage impact real people.

“In the worst cases, women who need these medications for other medical conditions suffer very dire consequences.


“A friend of mine, for example, has polycystic ovarian syndrome, and she has to take prescription birth control to stop cysts from growing on her ovaries. Her prescription is technically covered by Georgetown’s insurance because it’s not intended to prevent pregnancy.

“Unfortunately, under many religious institutions and insurance plans, it wouldn’t be. There would be no exception for other medical needs. And under Sen. Blunt’s amendment, Sen. Rubio’s bill or Rep. Fortenberry’s bill there’s no requirement that such an exception be made for these medical needs.

“When this exception does exist, these exceptions don’t accomplish their well-intended goals because when you let university administrators or other employers rather than women and their doctors dictate whose medical needs are legitimate and whose are not, women’s health takes a back seat to a bureaucracy focused on policing her body.

“In 65% of the cases at our school, our female students were interrogated by insurance representatives and university medical staff about why they needed prescription and whether they were lying about their symptoms.

“For my friend and 20% of the women in her situation, she never got the insurance company to cover her prescription. Despite verifications of her illness from her doctor, her claim was denied repeatedly on the assumption that she really wanted birth control to prevent pregnancy. She’s gay. So clearly polycystic ovarian syndrome was a much more urgent concern than accidental pregnancy for her.

“After months paying over $100 out-of-pocket, she just couldn’t afford her medication anymore, and she had to stop taking it.

“I learned about all of this when I walked out of a test and got a message from her that in the middle of the night in her final exam period she’d been in the emergency room. She’d been there all night in just terrible, excruciating pain. She wrote to me, ‘It was so painful I’d woke up thinking I’ve been shot.’

“Without her taking the birth control, a massive cyst the size of a tennis ball had grown on her ovary. She had to have surgery to remove her entire ovary as a result.

“On the morning I was originally scheduled to give this testimony, she was sitting in a doctor’s office, trying to cope with the consequences of this medical catastrophe.

“Since last year’s surgery, she’s been experiencing night sweats and weight gain and other symptoms of early menopause as a result of the removal of her ovary. She’s 32-years-old.

“As she put it, ‘If my body indeed does enter early menopause, no fertility specialist in the world will be able to help me have my own children. I will have no choice at giving my mother her desperately desired grandbabies simply because the insurance policy that I paid for, totally unsubsidized by my school, wouldn’t cover my prescription for birth control when I needed it.’

“Now, in addition to potentially facing the health complications that come with having menopause at such an early age – increased risk of cancer, heart disease, osteoporosis – she may never be able to conceive a child.

“Some may say that my friend’s tragic story is rare. It’s not. I wish it were

“One woman told us doctors believe she has endometriosis, but that can’t be proven without surgery. So the insurance has not been willing to cover her medication – the contraception she needs to treat her endometriosis.

“Recently, another woman told me that she also has polycystic ovarian syndrome and she’s struggling to pay for her medication and is terrified to not have access to it.

“Due to the barriers erected by Georgetown’s policy, she hasn’t been reimbursed for her medications since last August.

“I sincerely pray that we don’t have to wait until she loses an ovary or is diagnosed with cancer before her needs and the needs of all of these women are taken seriously.

“Because this is the message that not requiring coverage of contraception sends: A woman’s reproductive health care isn’t a necessity, isn’t a priority.

“One woman told us that she knew birth control wasn’t covered on the insurance and she assumed that that’s how Georgetown’s insurance handle all of women’s reproductive and sexual health care. So when she was raped, she didn’t go to the doctor, even to be examined or tested for sexually transmitted infections, because she thought insurance wasn’t going to cover something like that – something that was related to a woman’s reproductive health.

“As one other student put it: ‘This policy communicates to female students that our school doesn’t understand our needs.’

“These are not feelings that male fellow student experience and they’re not burdens that male students must shoulder.

“In the media lately, some conservative Catholic organizations have been asking what did we expect when we enroll in a Catholic school?

“We can only answer that we expected women to be treated equally, to not have our school create untenable burdens that impede our academic success.

“We expected that our schools would live up to the Jesuit creed of ‘cura personalis‘ – to care for the whole person – by meeting all of our medical needs.

“We expected that when we told our universities of the problem this policy created for us as students, they would help us.

“We expected that when 94% of students oppose the policy the university would respect our choices regarding insurance students pay for – completely unsubsidized by the university.

“We did not expect that women would be told in the national media that we should have gone to school elsewhere.

“And even if that meant going to a less prestigious university, we refuse to pick between a quality education and our health. And we resent that in the 21st century, anyone think it’s acceptable to ask us to make this choice simply because we are women.

“Many of the women whose stories I’ve shared today are Catholic women. So ours is not a war against the church. It is a struggle for the access to the health care we need.

“The President of the Association of Jesuit Colleges has shared that Jesuit colleges and the universities appreciate the modifications to the rule announced recently. Religious concerns are addressed and women get the health care they need. And I sincerely hope that that is something we can all agree upon.

“Thank you very much.”

[Straw Man]

In other words, you have no coherent response or rebuttal, no rational person can defend Sandra Fluke's crusade and you're contemplating suicide.

God's speed Straw.

translation for morons = Fluke never said, implied, suggested etc.. that woman needed 3k worth of condoms or the woman were having sex 2.74 times per day

in fact as you can see most of her testimony is about the prophylactic benefits of contraception which have nothing to do with sex

[Straw Man]

I could care less, it's wrong when either side does it.
I believe the 3G is over the period of a 3 year law degree, not sure.
He didn't say that, you made it up.
And obviously if the government mandates it for all plans, we're obviously all paying for it - at least people covered with a plan.

not true

he provided this pathetic scenario

Because filthy pigs like Sandra Fluke think it is a right to fuck whoever they want, whenever they want with contraceptive methods paid for on OUR dime. See, leftist windbags such as yourself can't have a coherent discussion on this topic without misdirecting the issue. This is about economics and personal choice. Does Lisa Ann have the right to get gangbanged on a daily basis? Absolutely. God bless her. Should I pay for Lisa Ann's birth control pills? Hell the fuck no.
And Straw, Lisa Ann is a female porn star who does straight pornographic films. You probably have never heard of her and watching her in action would probably make you nauseous because she doesn't have a penis. 

[Skip8282]

not true

he provided this pathetic scenario

Uh...exactly.  Like I said, you made it up.

[Straw Man]

Uh...exactly.  Like I said, you made it up.

I wish I made it up

that would be better than someone actually believing that they personally have to pay this womans insurance premium

Georgie is just parroting the belief of his hero Rush who seems to believe the exact same thing

[Soul Crusher]

 .  Why should the desires of this communist slut ho bag supercede the rights of georgetown? 

[Straw Man]

.  Why should the desires of this communist slut ho bag supercede the rights of georgetown? 

Why don't you ask the Republicans who supported mandated contraception with no exemption for religious employers

those people actually enacted laws where Fluke did nothing more than offer a personal opinion in a public hearing

why don't you ask the president of Georgetown how he feels about it since you seemed so concerned for them

http://www.georgetown.edu/message-civility-public-discourse.html

Dear Members of the Georgetown Community:

There is a legitimate question of public policy before our nation today.  In the effort to address the problem of the nearly fifty million Americans who lack health insurance, our lawmakers enacted legislation that seeks to increase access to health care. In recent weeks, a question regarding the breadth of services that will be covered has focused significant public attention on the issue of contraceptive coverage.  Many, including the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, have offered important perspectives on this issue.

In recent days, a law student of Georgetown, Sandra Fluke, offered her testimony regarding the proposed regulations by the Department of Health and Human Services before a group of members of Congress.  She was respectful, sincere, and spoke with conviction.  She provided a model of civil discourse.  This expression of conscience was in the tradition of the deepest values we share as a people. One need not agree with her substantive position to support her right to respectful free expression.   And yet, some of those who disagreed with her position – including Rush Limbaugh and commentators throughout the blogosphere and in various other media channels – responded with behavior that can only be described as misogynistic, vitriolic, and a misrepresentation of the position of our student.

In our vibrant and diverse society, there always are important differences that need to be debated, with strong and legitimate beliefs held on all sides of challenging issues. The greatest contribution of the American project is the recognition that together, we can rely on civil discourse to engage the tensions that characterize these difficult issues, and work towards resolutions that balance deeply held and different perspectives.  We have learned through painful experience that we must respect one another and we acknowledge that the best way to confront our differences is through constructive public debate.  At times, the exercise of one person’s freedom may conflict with another’s.  As Americans, we accept that the only answer to our differences is further engagement.

In an earlier time, St. Augustine captured the sense of what is required in civil discourse: "Let us, on both sides, lay aside all arrogance.  Let us not, on either side, claim that we have already discovered the truth.  Let us seek it together as something which is known to neither of us.  For then only may we seek it, lovingly and tranquilly, if there be no bold presumption that it is already discovered and possessed."

If we, instead, allow coarseness, anger – even hatred – to stand for civil discourse in America, we violate the sacred trust that has been handed down through the generations beginning with our Founders.  The values that hold us together as a people require nothing less than eternal vigilance.  This is our moment to stand for the values of civility in our engagement with one another.

Sincerely,

John J. DeGioia
President
Georgetown University

 

 
 

[Shockwave]

Why don't you ask the Republicans who supported mandated contraception with no exemption for religious employers

those people actually enacted laws where Fluke did nothing more than offer a personal opinion in a public hearing

why don't you ask the president of Georgetown how he feels about it since you seemed so concerned for them

http://www.georgetown.edu/message-civility-public-discourse.html

IT DOESNT MATTER WHICH SIDE SUPPORTS IT - ITS WRONG.
The Republicans were wrong then, then Democrats are wrong now.

Your argument is bullshit. Both sides were in the wrong.

[Straw Man]

IT DOESNT MATTER WHICH SIDE SUPPORTS IT - ITS WRONG.
The Republicans were wrong then, then Democrats are wrong now.

Your argument is bullshit. Both sides were in the wrong.

ok "it's wrong" because you believe it's wrong

meanwhile the government is involved in regulating commerce and has been since day 1

[tonymctones]

Who said it was a right?

Is the group healthcare you pay for a right?

Is someone else's group healthcare that they pay for anyone else business?

If your health insurance doesn't provide something you want then what is the problem with trying to get them to provide it

why would anyone have a problem with that?

The left is saying its a right, when you force someone to pay your arent trying to get them to cover it you are FORCING them to pay for it.

making it your right, they dont have a choice in the matter is the point.

[tonymctones]

And as you know there is plenty of precedent for that, much of which was sponsored, championed, endorsed and signed into law by Republicans just a few years ago

btw - do you have any links to her testimony or what she actually said.    I googled it but all I can find the is Limbaugh stuff

that doesnt make it ok straw, you rant and rave over how bad the reps are but then you use them for justification?

really?

[Straw Man]

that doesnt make it ok straw, you rant and rave over how bad the reps are but then you use them for justification?

really?

I'm pointing out their protests are bullshit since they not only had no problem with it before but actually promoted it before

you can't have it both ways

[Shockwave]

ok "it's wrong" because you believe it's wrong

meanwhile the government is involved in regulating commerce and has been since day 1

This is somehow commerce? The gov mandating what a private company HAS to offer?
Whats next? Telling Target they have to offer insurance?
I dont know why I bother even talking with you, you have some asinine justification for everything, and youll never admit youre wrong, so all thats going on is Im wasting my time.

So, go fuck yourself.

[Straw Man]

The left is saying its a right, when you force someone to pay your arent trying to get them to cover it you are FORCING them to pay for it.
making it your right, they dont have a choice in the matter is the point.

where are you getting the idea that Fluke or anyone else is asking/demanding that someone be forced to pay for their insurance?

[Straw Man]

This is somehow commerce? The gov mandating what a private company HAS to offer?
Whats next? Telling Target they have to offer insurance?
I dont know why I bother even talking with you, you have some asinine justification for everything, and youll never admit youre wrong, so all thats going on is Im wasting my time.

So, go fuck yourself.

LOL - all out of ideas so now it's on to personal insults

you don't believe health insurance companies are part of commerce?

I assume you're aware that  the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. South-Eastern Underwriters Association that the federal government could regulate insurance companies under the authority of the Commerce Clause in the U.S. Constitution and that insurance  currently enjoy and exemption from anit-trust laws (repeal of which would go a long way to eliminating all the current problems).

[Soul Crusher]

LOL - all out of ideas so now it's on to personal insults

you don't believe health insurance companies are part of commerce?

I assume you're aware that  the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. South-Eastern Underwriters Association that the federal government could regulate insurance companies under the authority of the Commerce Clause in the U.S. Constitution and that insurance  currently enjoy and exemption from anit-trust laws (repeal of which would go a long way to eliminating all the current problems).

Regulating the companies is one thing, mandating that individuals purchase products and services from said companies, under penalty of law, and being forced to enter into a contract by force, is a whole separate altogether, especially on the federal level. 

[Straw Man]

Regulating the companies is one thing, mandating that individuals purchase products and services from said companies, under penalty of law, and being forced to enter into a contract by force, is a whole separate altogether, especially on the federal level. 

I assume you're not referrring to Georgetown anymore ?