Author Topic: Good way to learn another language?  (Read 9456 times)

chess315

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2012, 01:13:40 AM »
I was married to a mexican girl that couldnt speak english if anything i forgot the spanish I did know.

Bevo

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2012, 01:22:37 AM »
I was married to a mexican girl that couldnt speak english if anything i forgot the spanish I did know.

So after she got her green card she left you?  :D

A Professional

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2012, 09:11:54 AM »
I was married to a mexican girl that couldnt speak english if anything i forgot the spanish I did know.

Educated Mexicans speak good spanish, but the type that jump the border speak spanish as well as the average hillbilly speaks english.

DK II

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2012, 03:52:01 PM »
I've met a lot of Germans since being here who seem to be quite proud of the fact that German grammar is very complex and hard for English speakers to learn. My teacher was often like this - which wasn't exactly encouraging. She wasn't so loud though when the Hungarians in the class started to compare their grammar with what we were learning!

Age helps. The later brain plasticity research is suggesting that our brain's language centre actually closes around the age of 18-21 and that other areas of the brain will begin to connect neurons to do the same job in its place - but they won't be neuron bundles in the language centre. Which means in theory that learning a language in adulthood to native level fluency (if you've had no exposure to it before) is probably going to be very very difficult, no matter what that language is, and that for the average person who tries it, you're at best going to be working with a facsimile of the real thing - a fully developed, neuronally connected dedicated language region in the brain.


I agree on the second part, although I have met quite a big number of people who started to speak a second language in their adulthood and managed to get to native level.

On a side note, what is native level? It's also hard to say because the difference is so vast, compare a normal guy working in a garage with a university grad or PH.D.
Both are native level.

The people mentioned above got to native level of a 1st language university grad.

LittleJ

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2012, 04:43:07 PM »
I'm thinking of moving to Japan this year. What's some good lines to pick up chicks?

RRKore

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2012, 04:50:47 PM »
Not for me, I enjoyed it.

But you have to put A LOT of time into it, I have been learning in university with courses every day, some additional 2-3h learning every day, plus Japanese girlfriend plus working with Japanese on a side job.

Took me about 4-5 years to be quite fluent, another 2-3 years to be able to read fluently. I started with 22 years old. Still have a slight accent that is probably going to stay, but I have had people on the telephone confuse me for a Japanese, so I guess I am doing good.

Is Japanese a tonal language?  I'm american and was a russian voice interceptor in the army (studied Russian for a year at the Defense Language Institute) and then took 5 semesters of college German (and married a Bavarian girl) so I thought I was a pretty much of a stud at learning languages....until I tried to learn Thai while on vacation there.  Um, holy fuck, my mouth can't even make the sounds of their language much less hear the different intonations that help them to distinguish word meanings. Thai is a tonal language (5 tones; high, medium, low, rising and falling) so there can be 5 different meanings for a word that sounds the same (to me).   Thai grammar is ridiculously simple but the listening comprehension and the writing (holy squiggles, batman) is stupid hard.

dustin

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2012, 04:58:03 PM »
For a speaker of a western language, Japanese is probably the hardest language to learn.
Completely different grammar, writing system, almost no similarity in vocabulary. Pronunciation is different as well.

That's true, but the nice thing is that it's syllabic and outside of Kanji (yikes!) it's not too hard to learn Katagana and Hirigana. Pronunciation is straight forward and for whatever reason, I've found it extremely easy to emulate the Japanese accent. I grew up with Japanese exchange students and was a brutally faggy anime dude growing up so that could be why, but even as a kid our students said I did a great job of mocking them lol

I have a Japanese exchange student now and his name is Nori. Cool as fuck kid. I was trying really hard to learn Vietnamese because that's what my wife's first language is, but the tonal shit is just WAY too much for me. I don't know if there's a language out there that's anymore tonal and fucking difficult to learn than Vietnamese. I've heard people say it's not too hard to learn, but maybe I'm just retarded.

I have a few apps and books for both languages but I've pretty much dropped studying Vietnamese for now because all of the content is so formal and it's all geared towards a dialect that apparently no one around here speaks. Even when I try making small talk all the Vietnamese people look at me like WTF? But when I talk to Nori and his Japanese exchange students they're like WOAHHH!!! Planning on studying a lot more so when me and the wifey get the chance to visit Japan I won't look like too much of a chump. 8)

Bobby

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2012, 05:32:16 PM »
Here's some listening understanding material for you:



nice work
tank u jesus

MikMaq

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2012, 07:23:45 PM »
I am not American.

I am fluent trilingual (German, Japanese and English) and speak fair french and italian, can understand polish/spanish passively and read chinese quite a bit.


How about you?  ::) ::)
Which is my point. you've never had to learn a language that is atleast on paper completely useless to you. English is ultra valuable, and you live in japan.

Comparing that to an american, who has no reason to learn a language ever is completely different.

A Professional

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2012, 08:19:02 PM »
Which is my point. you've never had to learn a language that is atleast on paper completely useless to you. English is ultra valuable, and you live in japan.

Comparing that to an american, who has no reason to learn a language ever is completely different.

English is ultra-valuable -- and so is spanish and chinese.

If you live in a major city or do business it is useful. Being able to speak more than one language is what separates the cultured from the uncultured.

Tyr

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2012, 09:05:13 PM »
I'm thinking of moving to Japan this year. What's some good lines to pick up chicks?

Don't learn Japanese from a girl unless you plan on getting laughed at by all the males.

el numero uno

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2012, 09:10:02 PM »
Educated Mexicans speak good spanish, but the type that jump the border speak spanish as well as the average hillbilly speaks english.

Spanish is more complex than english. Most of my friends can't write one single sentence without making a typo. I'm serious, they are that bad and a few of them are University students  :-\.


galain

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2012, 12:35:53 AM »
Don't learn Japanese from a girl unless you plan on getting laughed at by all the males.

Ha. A good friend of mine went to train at a hardass kickboxing gym in Japan in the late 80's and spent a month wondering why no-one would talk to him.

They all thought he was gay.

DK II

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2012, 03:40:26 AM »
Is Japanese a tonal language?  I'm american and was a russian voice interceptor in the army (studied Russian for a year at the Defense Language Institute) and then took 5 semesters of college German (and married a Bavarian girl) so I thought I was a pretty much of a stud at learning languages....until I tried to learn Thai while on vacation there.  Um, holy fuck, my mouth can't even make the sounds of their language much less hear the different intonations that help them to distinguish word meanings. Thai is a tonal language (5 tones; high, medium, low, rising and falling) so there can be 5 different meanings for a word that sounds the same (to me).   Thai grammar is ridiculously simple but the listening comprehension and the writing (holy squiggles, batman) is stupid hard.

Japanese has that too, but not to the level of Chinese or Thai.

You can get around it in most cases, you will just sound a bit retarded, lol.

DK II

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2012, 03:42:00 AM »
Ha. A good friend of mine went to train at a hardass kickboxing gym in Japan in the late 80's and spent a month wondering why no-one would talk to him.

They all thought he was gay.


Yes, never learn Japanese from a girl, or an Anime....

I see those retards again and again, talking like a girl or like a fucking anime character... Imagine someone learning English from Micky Mouse, that's what you will sound like.... lol

galain

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2012, 04:30:36 AM »
DKII

A question for you. Do you ever feel like a different person when you're speaking a different language? I wonder more and more about this being here in D'Land. If we hit people with stereotypes, I'd say on the whole, Germans are very correct (genauso), very orderly and organised and very punctual. Often in a hurry and impatient. Probably not the warmest, nicest people I've met in my travels. And the ones that I teach get very disturbed if I change a routine.

And then I think how the language is structured. You can't start a sentence unless you know how you what you're going to say at the end (or all your conjugations go to shit), - and I wonder if this causes people to 'think' in categories and be organised. You ask for the time, literally by asking "How late is it?" - and most Germans I know are constantly rushing somewhere because it's social death to be late, there is no word for 'kindness' and "happy" has the same stemword as "lucky" (like it's more an unusual condition to feel happy - really, I often get treated suspiciously here if I smile too much).

Japanese - you speak it better than me, but it's very layered and contextual - you understand things a lot in relation to other things - and life  rarely happens in straight lines in Japan in terms of personal interaction. i can't say I think at a high level in Japanese so I can't add more - but just off the top of my head.

What do you think? I'd be interested to know - do you feel like a different person when you're speaking another language?

DK II

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2012, 05:17:49 AM »
DKII

A question for you. Do you ever feel like a different person when you're speaking a different language? I wonder more and more about this being here in D'Land. If we hit people with stereotypes, I'd say on the whole, Germans are very correct (genauso), very orderly and organised and very punctual. Often in a hurry and impatient. Probably not the warmest, nicest people I've met in my travels. And the ones that I teach get very disturbed if I change a routine.

And then I think how the language is structured. You can't start a sentence unless you know how you what you're going to say at the end (or all your conjugations go to shit), - and I wonder if this causes people to 'think' in categories and be organised. You ask for the time, literally by asking "How late is it?" - and most Germans I know are constantly rushing somewhere because it's social death to be late, there is no word for 'kindness' and "happy" has the same stemword as "lucky" (like it's more an unusual condition to feel happy - really, I often get treated suspiciously here if I smile too much).

Japanese - you speak it better than me, but it's very layered and contextual - you understand things a lot in relation to other things - and life  rarely happens in straight lines in Japan in terms of personal interaction. i can't say I think at a high level in Japanese so I can't add more - but just off the top of my head.

What do you think? I'd be interested to know - do you feel like a different person when you're speaking another language?

Interesting points there. I have found this to be accurate as well.

To say that I feel like a total different person would be too much, but I definitely think and act quite differently. I learned my Japanese in university and have, besides from family, only used it in a professional environment, so I am always rather polite. I can speak the whole bandwith from informal Japanese to Keigo fluently, but even if I speak informal, I am rather polite. I rarely swear (besides the occasional 畜生 that is...) in Japanese as well.

Japanese is VERY structured though, and Japanese follow the rules and respect boundaries more than Germans I would say, in culture and language you can see that.

 

I can't say about my German, but I would say I am very straight forward in German. Polite in the right situations but always straight to the face.


You kind of adapt to the environment around you, if you learn Japanese on a university campus and going drinking with your buddies, you won't be very polite and rather rude. I have seen quite a few intelligent people fail in their job search because their fluent Japanese was just not suitable for a business environment. The whole concept of Keigo is easier understandable for a German than for English speakers I think.

mass243

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2012, 07:10:34 AM »

Sadly the older you get, the fukin' harder learning a new language seems to get  :'(


I'm glad my english is on level of native speaker but would need to learn 'certain other language' to get in big-money jobs....... And it's hard.

galain

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2012, 11:49:12 PM »
Thanks DKII

One day I may get back to higher studies and look further at this. It interests me a lot.

DK II

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Re: Good way to learn another language?
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2012, 03:20:58 AM »
Thanks DKII

One day I may get back to higher studies and look further at this. It interests me a lot.

No problem!

My wife is an M.A. in language acquisition, it's an interesting topic!