GH15, what's better? Anadrol or Dianabol?

[suckmymuscle]

  Quote from "tbombz":

  "Taking it up the ass feels like a massage, only it's inside your ass."

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[tbombz]

  Go fuck yourself, retard. I am giving anecdotal evidence from my own personal experience with these drugs. You are the same .f.a.g.g.o.t who admitted to taking it up the ass and enjoyed it, so you have no dignity to talk down to anyone. And my information is not incorrect, idiot. Anadrol stopped working for me after a week, whilst I gained 5 lbs a week for one month while on dbol.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

if anadrol stopped working for you after a week, then you had 7 legit anadrol and the rest were fake. because it doesnt just stop working.

[suckmymuscle]

if anadrol stopped working for you after a week, then you had 7 legit anadrol and the rest were fake. because it doesnt just stop working.

  Right. So Hemogenin bought straight from the pharmacy had some legit pills in it and other fakes? Damn, you really are a dumb one.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Van_Bilderass]

t3 should be prescribed to obese people

instead of the appetite suppressants currently prescribed

I wonder about possible cardiac issues though. Big reason T3 increases calorie consumption is the increase in heart rate.

[RadOncDoc]

synthroid is useless in 99% of humans. wont do anything at all, unless you have a genetic predisposition which causes your body to under produce t4. and in that case it would only bump metabolism to regular.  t3 is the active thyroid hormone, so to change a metabolism it is what must be supplemented with. t4 is inactive as far as "pace of energy consumption" goes... although i understand it does play some other roles.

Huh? This post makes absolutely no sense. If synthroid is useless, I feel bad for all of the people who are currently taking it for hypothyroidism (which isn't just caused by a genetic predisposition). Synthroid is by far the most popular drug prescribed for hypothyroidism. I've never even seen a patient prescribed a t3 analog, although I think they do exist. As far as t3 being the active hormone...yes, that's true. But, t4 (which is essentially what synthroid is) is the predominant form produced by the thyroid, and is converted in the tissues of your body to t3. If you take large doses of synthroid, you will bump up your metabolism...and it will be beyond just "regular." This is exactly what happens to people with hyperthyroidism--their body produces too much t4., which is converted to t3 peripherally, and voila...they get all the symptoms of hyperthyroidsm...weight loss being one of them.  

[RadOncDoc]

I wonder about possible cardiac issues though. Big reason T3 increases calorie consumption is the increase in heart rate.

Nobody is going to be prescribing a thyroid analog for weight loss. It would be dangerous (cardiac risks in particular), and you would have to monitor thyroid levels. As far as how it causes weight loss, thyroid hormone has effects on energy metabolism independent of it's effect on heart rate.

[Van_Bilderass]

I've never even seen a patient prescribed a t3 analog, although I think they do exist.

Well, there's Armour Thyroid. From what I've seen that's the preferred drug for treating hypothyroidism by "those in the know" though I haven't looked at it in depth.

[RadOncDoc]

Well, there's Armour Thyroid. From what I've seen that's the preferred drug for treating hypothyroidism by "those in the know" though I haven't looked at it in depth.

Hmmm. Not sure where you have seen this or what constitutes "being in the know." I've been to medical school and done a residency, and I've never seen a patient with hypothyroidism who wasn't on synthroid. I've never even heard of armour thyroid. I did look it up, though, and it appears to be some sort of thyroid extract from pigs which was used in the past (which is why I haven't heard of it), but now has been almost entirely replaced by synthroid. Believe me--synthroid is by far the most commonly used thyroid replacement drug. The T3 replacement drug that doctor sometimes use is called cytomel.

[Van_Bilderass]

Hmmm. Not sure where you have seen this or what constitutes "being in the know." I've been to medical school and done a residency, and I've never seen a patient with hypothyroidism who wasn't on synthroid. I've never even heard of armour thyroid. I can imagine t3 analogs do have a role in the few people who are unable to convert t4 to t3, but I'm guessing that's rare.

There are some people who have always provided correct and reliable info that's scientifically backed so I tend to trust them even when I personally haven't studied something in depth.

Armour Thyroid is porcine derived thyroid gland extract, contains both T4 and T3. "Natural Thyroid".

http://www.armourthyroid.com/

Believe me--synthroid is by far the most commonly used thyroid replacement drug.

Sure, I know this. There's a lot of controversy surrounding hypothyroidism treatments. For example what constitutes hypothyroid, and I think it has been adjusted through the years. Not all docs subscribe to the same reference ranges. Kind of like hypogonadism, being at the low end of normal can still be "too low" for you.

[RadOncDoc]

There are some people who have always provided correct and reliable info that's scientifically backed so I tend to trust them even when I personally haven't studied something in depth.

Armour Thyroid is porcine derived thyroid gland extract, contains both T4 and T3. "Natural Thyroid".

http://www.armourthyroid.com/

Sure, I know this. There's a lot of controversy surrounding hypothyroidism treatments. For example what constitutes hypothyroid, and I think it has been adjusted through the years. Not all docs subscribe to the same reference ranges. Kind of like hypogonadism, being at the low end of normal can still be "too low" for you.

Well, I wouldn't really call it controversy. That implies that there isn't really an accepted standard of care. There are published guidelines for what constitutes hypothyroidism. Sure, practitioners have individual preferences, but guidelines still exist, and if there are any differences between the way practitioners manage the disease, they are very subtle. This being said, there is no controversy in the drugs doctors will prescribe when they deem a patient "hypothyroid." And that's really all I'm saying. I was really just pointing out that someone's post about t4 not being effective was absolutely bogus, and that most patients with hypothyroidism are prescribed a synthetic t4 analog (synthroid). I was also saying that taking exogenous t4 will impact everyone...not just people with low levels of thyroid hormone.

By the way, I was wrong when I said I've never seen a t3 analog prescribed. Some patients do get prescribed cytomel, but still, synthroid is by far the most common treatment.

[tbombz]

someone's post about t4 not being effective was absolutely bogus, and that most patients with hypothyroidism are prescribed a synthetic t4 analog (synthroid). I was also saying that taking exogenous t4 will impact everyone...not just people with low levels of thyroid hormone.

By the way, I was wrong when I said I've never seen a t3 analog prescribed. Some patients do get prescribed cytomel, but still, synthroid is by far the most common treatment.

supplementing t4 into a person with normal levels of t3.....

this is what i was refering to

since most obese people have normal levels of t3, and i was talking about medications prescribed to obese people to get them to lose weight

are you saying adding in additional t4 to somoeone with healthy thyroiud will result in significantly higher t3 ?

i dont think it works that way.  youve got to use t3 directly.


as for the rest of what you said about people with hypothyroid... yes they get treated with t4 most of the times... because alot of those people are underproducing t4...    so that is the solution to their problem....

[clued-up]

supplementing t4 into a person with normal levels of t3.....

this is what i was refering to

since most obese people have normal levels of t3, and i was talking about medications prescribed to obese people to get them to lose weight

are you saying adding in additional t4 to somoeone with healthy thyroiud will result in significantly higher t3 ?

i dont think it works that way.  youve got to use t3 directly.


as for the rest of what you said about people with hypothyroid... yes they get treated with t4 most of the times... because alot of those people are underproducing t4...    so that is the solution to their problem....

to my understanding t4 converts to t3.. as needed by a person who is deficient.. right?

so.. in a normal person.. who isn’t deficient.. t4 is useless.. because the body will not convert it.. because it does not need any additional t3.

go the direct route – t3.. if you want to drop fat.

[clued-up]

Huh? This post makes absolutely no sense. If synthroid is useless, I feel bad for all of the people who are currently taking it for hypothyroidism (which isn't just caused by a genetic predisposition). Synthroid is by far the most popular drug prescribed for hypothyroidism. I've never even seen a patient prescribed a t3 analog, although I think they do exist. As far as t3 being the active hormone...yes, that's true. But, t4 (which is essentially what synthroid is) is the predominant form produced by the thyroid, and is converted in the tissues of your body to t3. If you take large doses of synthroid, you will bump up your metabolism...and it will be beyond just "regular." This is exactly what happens to people with hyperthyroidism--their body produces too much t4., which is converted to t3 peripherally, and voila...they get all the symptoms of hyperthyroidsm...weight loss being one of them.  

this is a bodybuilding board.. healthy people using *t3* to burn fat. t4 is useless for them... they are not deficient in t4.. they want to *supplement*.. add to.. to get a fat burning effect. t3 three is the way to go.

and they should run t3 along with an anabolic to prevent muscle wasting.

[RadOncDoc]

to my understanding t4 converts to t3.. as needed by a person who is deficient.. right?

so.. in a normal person.. who isn’t deficient.. t4 is useless.. because the body will not convert it.. because it does not need any additional t3.

go the direct route – t3.. if you want to drop fat.

You are wrong. If T4 was useless in someone who wasn't deficient, then you would never get symptoms from hyperthyroidism. If you give your body T4, it will convert it to T3 plain and simple. Thyroid function isn't regulated as much at the level of the t4 to t3 conversion step; it's regulated moreso at the level of the pituitary. Give your body t4 and it will convert it to t3 even if you already have enough t3. There is a balance in the body between tsh production by the pituitary and thyroid hormone production by the thyroid gland. As thyroid hormone levels rise, TSH levels fall, and thyroid output is regulated. If you take exogenous thyroid hormone, including t4, your tsh levels will fall, but your body will still convert the t4 to t3. Your TSH can be 0, but as long as you are supplementing with thyroid hormone, you will still get the effects. And if you take more thyroid hormone than you need (including t4) you become artificially hyperthyroid even though your tsh might be 0. Your body will still convert t4 to t3 even if you are clinically hyperthyroid. That's why, after all, there is something in medicine called hyperthyroidism! Is t3 more direct than t4? Yes. I'm not debating that. But to say that t4 wouldn't work is wrong. Anyway, I think we're arguing for the sake of arguing. I wouldn't debate that taking t3 directly should theoretically work faster than t4 and could theoretically be more effective because presumably there is some downregulation of the peripheral enzymes that convert t4 to t3 when you are hyperthyroid. But you will get weight loss effects if you take too much t4. Of course, anyone taking thyroid hormone for weight loss is an idiot in my opinion...but then again when have bodybuilders ever made rational decisions?

[Cleanest Natural]

I concur w rodoc

t4 gets converted
 we do not have t3 in Romania not even on the bl;ack mnarket


so we been bodybuilding on t4 foreva

[clued-up]

You are wrong. If T4 was useless in someone who wasn't deficient, then you would never get symptoms from hyperthyroidism. If you give your body T4, it will convert it to T3 plain and simple. Thyroid function isn't regulated as much at the level of the t4 to t3 conversion step; it's regulated moreso at the level of the pituitary. Give your body t4 and it will convert it to t3 even if you already have enough t3. There is a balance in the body between tsh production by the pituitary and thyroid hormone production by the thyroid gland. As thyroid hormone levels rise, TSH levels fall, and thyroid output is regulated. If you take exogenous thyroid hormone, including t4, your tsh levels will fall, but your body will still convert the t4 to t3. Your TSH can be 0, but as long as you are supplementing with thyroid hormone, you will still get the effects. And if you take more thyroid hormone than you need (including t4) you become artificially hyperthyroid even though your tsh might be 0. Your body will still convert t4 to t3 even if you are clinically hyperthyroid. That's why, after all, there is something in medicine called hyperthyroidism! Is t3 more direct than t4? Yes. I'm not debating that. But to say that t4 wouldn't work is wrong. Anyway, I think we're arguing for the sake of arguing. I wouldn't debate that taking t3 directly should theoretically work faster than t4 and could theoretically be more effective because presumably there is some downregulation of the peripheral enzymes that convert t4 to t3 when you are hyperthyroid. But you will get weight loss effects if you take too much t4.

its nice to know t4 will work…

t4 - conversion = not as efficient.

t3 – already what it needs to be.

Of course, anyone taking thyroid hormone for weight loss is an idiot in my opinion...

I agree 

[clued-up]

we do not have t3 in Romania not even on the bl;ack mnarket

but - you have naps...

[tbombz]

You are wrong. If T4 was useless in someone who wasn't deficient, then you would never get symptoms from hyperthyroidism. If you give your body T4, it will convert it to T3 plain and simple. Thyroid function isn't regulated as much at the level of the t4 to t3 conversion step; it's regulated moreso at the level of the pituitary. Give your body t4 and it will convert it to t3 even if you already have enough t3. There is a balance in the body between tsh production by the pituitary and thyroid hormone production by the thyroid gland. As thyroid hormone levels rise, TSH levels fall, and thyroid output is regulated. If you take exogenous thyroid hormone, including t4, your tsh levels will fall, but your body will still convert the t4 to t3. Your TSH can be 0, but as long as you are supplementing with thyroid hormone, you will still get the effects. And if you take more thyroid hormone than you need (including t4) you become artificially hyperthyroid even though your tsh might be 0. Your body will still convert t4 to t3 even if you are clinically hyperthyroid. That's why, after all, there is something in medicine called hyperthyroidism! Is t3 more direct than t4? Yes. I'm not debating that. But to say that t4 wouldn't work is wrong. Anyway, I think we're arguing for the sake of arguing. I wouldn't debate that taking t3 directly should theoretically work faster than t4 and could theoretically be more effective because presumably there is some downregulation of the peripheral enzymes that convert t4 to t3 when you are hyperthyroid. But you will get weight loss effects if you take too much t4. Of course, anyone taking thyroid hormone for weight loss is an idiot in my opinion...but then again when have bodybuilders ever made rational decisions?

hm. learn something new everyday. id always thought it wouldnt be effective in a healthy individual.

anyway, i, like van bilderass, think armour thyroid would be the best bet. then cytomel. then synthroid.

[gh15]

the tbomz kid became very knowledgable during the years,,,thats what i like ,,never give up learn from him ,,he will get far ,, you kept laughin at him and he came back and back and back and now hes posting is actually interesting,,

thats a winner anyway you look at it ,,if his body respond as well as his brain he will get far

gh15 approved

[tbombz]

the tbomz kid became very knowledgable during the years,,,thats what i like ,,never give up learn from him ,,he will get far ,, you kept laughin at him and he came back and back and back and now hes posting is actually interesting,,

thats a winner anyway you look at it ,,if his body respond as well as his brain he will get far

gh15 approved

thanks gh15


hey in your experience with insulin how long do you have to take it to see mass gains? how many iu ? i know milos says 20iu pre workout, however i am sure the human body can release the equivelant of 20iu of insulin on its own, so i think most ifbb bodybuilders use considerably higher doseages of insulin. like 50-100iu. am i right? 

[gh15]

yes you are,,but its individual dependent and lean mass dependency ,,i would not recomend any one with over 8% bodyfat to use insulin ,,there is such a thing as non responders to insulin as in insulin insensetive and it exist ,,atleast in terms of normal lifter not diabetics,,and the reason is always fat too fat ,,started too fat,,,the best time to do the insulin in a routine is when you are mid single digit as in after competition when body fat% is at 6-8%

that is when your body will explode with the use of gh into new dimentions,,

one can grow perfectly good at 12% on gh and aas until he gets down to 7-8% and add in the insulin to grow into new dimentions

insuin shoudl be highly respected and know how to use because yes you can very well die from it if you dont know the mesurments and you dont have some kinda of sugar next to you at all times ,,in addition i would nto go to sleep when insulin is injected period no matter how much sugar you took in

you get tired? take cold shower

gh15 approved

[tbombz]

yes you are,,but its individual dependent and lean mass dependency ,,i would not recomend any one with over 8% bodyfat to use insulin ,,there is such a thing as non responders to insulin as in insulin insensetive and it exist ,,atleast in terms of normal lifter not diabetics,,and the reason is always fat too fat ,,started too fat,,,the best time to do the insulin in a routine is when you are mid single digit as in after competition when body fat% is at 6-8%

that is when your body will explode with the use of gh into new dimentions,,

one can grow perfectly good at 12% on gh and aas until he gets down to 7-8% and add in the insulin to grow into new dimentions

insuin shoudl be highly respected and know how to use because yes you can very well die from it if you dont know the mesurments and you dont have some kinda of sugar next to you at all times ,,in addition i would nto go to sleep when insulin is injected period no matter how much sugar you took in

you get tired? take cold shower

gh15 approved

ok cool

what if a double digit body fat guy only used insulin when he was sensitive to insulin -  post workout when glycogen is depleted?

how fast can somebody put on muscle with insulin if used on a daily basis along with a large dose of AAS but no gh?

[gh15]

i wouldnt tqake insulin unless body fat is down into single digit,, the look you see on denis wolfe on a professional bodybuilder is insulin taken after showes at lower body fat when climing into new dimentions,,

i also would not take insulin unless gh is in the systrm ,,i would do whatever it takes to get growth hormone because it is the best hormone for lean growth ,,the body loves it and gets into new type of anabolizm while on it ,,,the 3 dimentional type when each muscle start looking full and seperated ,,,

first aas
then gh
then insulin

with gh and insulin you can put muscle and lean out at a worrying rate as in 2-3 months and you look diffeent both in quality and in quantity ,,gh by itself will get you competition ready in a matyter of few months sometimes less with leaving ALL your muscle on you

gh15 approved

[rccs]

I feel my body responding to dbol at even 20 mg per day... my strength increases a lot...

[Nomad]

  Go fuck yourself, retard. I am giving anecdotal evidence from my own personal experience with these drugs. You are the same .f.a.g.g.o.t who admitted to taking it up the ass and enjoyed it, so you have no dignity to talk down to anyone. And my information is not incorrect, idiot. Anadrol stopped working for me after a week, whilst I gained 5 lbs a week for one month while on dbol.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

lmao...so sucky used anadrol. So much for all natural