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Author Topic: diet, fat-loss while "on"  (Read 7453 times)
dj181
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« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2012, 09:02:23 AM »

They all say that and I think its bullshit. Why would arnold go from something like HIT that he supposedly did that "built his base and size" and then change over to a "maintenance and refining" routine?

It doesnt make sense. why would u change something that supposedly works. Amd to clear things up, he did not train hit style at any point in his life. Ppl are saying he did just bc he powerlifted for a while so they assume he had to do hit.

Arnold repeatedly talks of training til he felt almost dead sets after set when he was younger and up and coming. Source: education of a bodybuilder, multiple biography books

but my point is...

arnold's increased training loads=arnold's larger muscles

it doesn't matter if he did 1 set or 1000 sets, what matters is that he PROGRESSIVELY OVERLOADED his muscles and this is EXACTLY what made them larger

i've got Zane's training diary, and guess what? he basically used the same training weights throughtout 1977 until 1979, and he always stepped onstage @ 185-190, and then... in 1983 he increased his training loads, and low and behold, he stepped onstage @ over 200 pounds
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« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2012, 09:10:48 AM »

HIT works for some. Not everyone. And you cant say its the best, look at Arnold, his training style was far from HIT...trained 6 days a week sometimes 2x a day and his volume was huge. Results speaks for themselves.
Genes man the man had or there would be 100 Mr O's. He trained with HIT at the Nautilus facility and AJ but it was too intense I assume so we went with volume. Not trying to be a ass but genes rule. Take a look a Sergio Olivia back in the 70's.
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dj181
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« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2012, 09:43:37 AM »

but i'm not talking about a 1 rep max, i'm talking about weights used within one's training range, for example 10 reps

and yeah, maybe these people said they increased their size by decreasing training loads, but did they really? (on a side note, i do believe that one can maintain their size by somewhat decreasing their training loads, but i've yet to see decreased training loads cause a size increase)

not trying to be a dick dude, just asking an honest question
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Borracho
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« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2012, 10:12:14 AM »

and an honest question here for you fellas...

have you ever seen anyone actually get bigger muscles without increasing their training loads?

i sure as hell haven't

and if you actually can increase the size of muscles without increasing your training loads then please tell me how to do it, coz i'd like to know


My guess is up the dose...lol

I see what you're saying but remember it's also possible to get stronger and not increase in size....so diet also has something to do with it. Bigger muscles mean you should be able to lift more right....but what came first the muscle or the strength? lol

To me the ideal situation would be to get bigger without having to push such heavy weights so you can lift forever without joint/back pain etc.

As a natty there will be a cap on how big you can get so to me it has to do more with juice and how an individual responds to it rather than how he trains. My guess is anyone trying to get bigger and bigger for bodybuilding is more likely to increase dosages and amount/kind of drugs used rather than switch up their training scheme. Just like there's a natural limit for an individual certain doses will only take one so far...
 


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tbombz
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« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2012, 12:02:20 PM »

but i'm not talking about a 1 rep max, i'm talking about weights used within one's training range, for example 10 reps

and yeah, maybe these people said they increased their size by decreasing training loads, but did they really? (on a side note, i do believe that one can maintain their size by somewhat decreasing their training loads, but i've yet to see decreased training loads cause a size increase)

not trying to be a dick dude, just asking an honest question

a year ago i was using 315 for sets of 8 on bench and barbell row, curling the 80lb dumbells for sets of 6, doing military press behind the neck with 275...    today im doing bench with 135-185, pulldowns with 100lbs, tricep extensions with 25 lb dumbells...  and my muscles are bigger and shapelier than ever..   of course.. as they grow bigger ill be bale to use more weight.. but what matters for bodybuilding, at least juiced bodybuilding, at least for me, is proper technique.. very very slow negatives on every single rep.. forceful but controlled positives on every rep, and a hard tight squeeze at peak contraction on every single rep.. when you lift that way, focusing on working the muscle rather than lifting the weight..  especially with the slow negative _im talking at least 5 second on the negative) and a hard squeeze at peak contraction.. you can only use a very light weight and you will fatigue very quickly.. i do not train to fialure either.. iand i do moderate to low volume..... STIMULATE, dont annihilate - lee haney..
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« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2012, 05:47:43 PM »

This pretty much sums it up^^

As far as what is better for building muscle, Volume vs Intensity, well the goal for maximum muscle gains is to completely destroy every fast-twich muscle fiber you can and both ways can accomplish this. Personally I prefer intensity, 12 sets per muscle group but resting 3-4 minutes between sets and mentally preparing for every single set as it where my main set. Once in a while I will hit a long volume workout as well.
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a_ahmed
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« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2012, 06:00:43 PM »

I did 800 calories a day for about a week and fainted while I was benching. Luckily I was really weak then,  it was only 185 pounds but it fell straight onto my head. I wasn't on gear at the time so that might make a HUGE difference, but be careful lol.

Ouch! And that's crazy! 800 cals wth? I was cutting on 4000 calories last year lol..
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dj181
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« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2012, 03:37:29 AM »

Ouch! And that's crazy! 800 cals wth? I was cutting on 4000 calories last year lol..

cuuting on 4000 cals Shocked Shocked Shocked

how cut did you get? did you at least get to sub-6?

also, were you following "god's" magicial protocol of tren and gh?
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dj181
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« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2012, 10:33:50 AM »

i always alternate workouts, either i do 1 week of light training, something like 120-220 lbs on bench for many reps(yes ,lol,120), then followed by heavy workout next week, 220-400lbs.i can do 5-6reps with 400 on good day, dj181, thats far far from 1 single rep training.
when i feel really fresh and have plenty time, i do both the above in the same training session.

on steroids, both approaches will work.its rather to do with proper diet and flexing properly than anything else imo.

however, one thing will tremendously help, and this is a strong foundation built at young age.strong foundation as in being strong.then you can play around with pretty big weights and be intense.
if someone hasnt got the strenght yet and is over 30,hes at brutal disadvantage forever.


allright man, but your basically just maintaining the size that you already have with that style of training, and as i said before maintaining size is MUCH EASIER than gaining size, and in fact i even believe that you can lighten training loads a bit in order to maintain your current size
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dj181
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« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2012, 12:24:42 PM »

400 for 6 is strong as fuck dude

do you do those reps relatively clean? meaning no bridging and no bouncing

i was JM Blakely's lift-off man at a shirt-free bench press meet that he did many years ago, and he did 440 @ 220, and JM is one of the best bench pressers on the planet

in fact, he was the first man to bench press 300 kilo in europe, he did it in Austria
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tbombz
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« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2012, 02:23:30 PM »

the goal for maximum muscle gains is to completely destroy every fast-twich muscle fiber you can
after a couple years of training like that the only time your ever going to make any progress is when you up the dose.

STIMULATE, DONT ANNIHILATE
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« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2012, 04:52:53 PM »

after a couple years of training like that the only time your ever going to make any progress is when you up the dose.

STIMULATE, DONT ANNIHILATE
15 years and still making gains, nice gains, my dose has been the same for 4 years, so throw your theory down the toilet.
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« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2012, 06:41:40 PM »

a year ago i was using 315 for sets of 8 on bench and barbell row, curling the 80lb dumbells for sets of 6, doing military press behind the neck with 275...    today im doing bench with 135-185, pulldowns with 100lbs, tricep extensions with 25 lb dumbells...  and my muscles are bigger and shapelier than ever..   of course.. as they grow bigger ill be bale to use more weight.. but what matters for bodybuilding, at least juiced bodybuilding, at least for me, is proper technique.. very very slow negatives on every single rep.. forceful but controlled positives on every rep, and a hard tight squeeze at peak contraction on every single rep.. when you lift that way, focusing on working the muscle rather than lifting the weight..  especially with the slow negative _im talking at least 5 second on the negative) and a hard squeeze at peak contraction.. you can only use a very light weight and you will fatigue very quickly.. i do not train to fialure either.. iand i do moderate to low volume..... STIMULATE, dont annihilate - lee haney..

My chest and arms are finally growing again exactly because of this. I could bench 250 lbs for a solid 4 sets of 10, but I was just getting the weight up. Now I dropped theweight to the point where I can do 4 sets of 10 using only my chest. (ofc other muscles are involved but the key is minimizing how much they are involved.
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« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2012, 06:46:03 PM »

this thread is retarded, I don't know one competetive bodybuilder that eats this little. my girlfriend is 120 pounds and eats 1500 cal a day. I dieted for a show and im a pure endo, on 300p/180c/50-60f which is over 2000 cals. I did 60-70 minute cardio 6 days a week. to think that you wont lose muscle at 6-800 cal a day is insanity unless your literally obese and can tap into some stored energy.

onetimehard i saw you say you eat 5lbs of chicken breast to diet. thats good but its only 2500 cal, and protein is used less efficiently for energy so you can subtract 20-30%. its not like you were eating 5000 cal of chicken breast.
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« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2012, 06:49:11 PM »

also tbombs you are fat. that disqualifies you from giving out dieting advice especially if its based on personal opinion.
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dj181
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« Reply #65 on: August 05, 2012, 03:01:17 AM »

this thread is retarded, I don't know one competetive bodybuilder that eats this little. my girlfriend is 120 pounds and eats 1500 cal a day. I dieted for a show and im a pure endo, on 300p/180c/50-60f which is over 2000 cals. I did 60-70 minute cardio 6 days a week. to think that you wont lose muscle at 6-800 cal a day is insanity unless your literally obese and can tap into some stored energy.

onetimehard i saw you say you eat 5lbs of chicken breast to diet. thats good but its only 2500 cal, and protein is used less efficiently for energy so you can subtract 20-30%. its not like you were eating 5000 cal of chicken breast.

well man, i went from 12% to 7.5% in only 2 weeks time on only 800 cals per day, and i lost only 1 pound of lean muscle tissue while losing 8 pounds of fat, and i was a lifetime natty at that point in time
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dj181
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« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2012, 03:08:55 AM »

and evser is right bombz, you're not lean

even with your latest pics, i'd put you at a very wet 12%

if you would hit the condition that i've displayed here in these pics i put up (which is a legit sub-6) you'd most likely weigh about a buck 80

not trying to be a dick here man, just trying to give you a dose of reality

it's a real bitch going from 8-9% to sub-6 and you lose quite a bit of muscle volume in the process, at least i did Cry Cry Cry
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evser
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« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2012, 04:10:54 AM »

well man, i went from 12% to 7.5% in only 2 weeks time on only 800 cals per day, and i lost only 1 pound of lean muscle tissue while losing 8 pounds of fat, and i was a lifetime natty at that point in time

I guess i cant knock it without trying it. but man even at 2000 cal im literally starving all day i think i would die at 800
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dj181
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« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2012, 04:43:39 AM »

I guess i cant knock it without trying it. but man even at 2000 cal im literally starving all day i think i would die at 800

it's not necessary to go that low man, i just wanted to try it out at that time

and yeah dude, i almost passed out at the gas station pumping some gas into my ride after about the 5th or 6th day into that insanity LOL

my whole point is that hard consistant and progressive training pwns the living shit out of "diet"

basically this hard training "super-charges" the body and allows a half-way shitty "diet" coz it covers a multitude of dieting "sins" Wink

if your diet is spot on and you don't train, or train in a shitty fashion then yeah you'll get results, and you'll get leaner, but you won't look damn near as good as you would have had your training been spot on
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Onetimehard
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« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2012, 10:59:22 PM »

this thread is retarded, I don't know one competetive bodybuilder that eats this little. my girlfriend is 120 pounds and eats 1500 cal a day. I dieted for a show and im a pure endo, on 300p/180c/50-60f which is over 2000 cals. I did 60-70 minute cardio 6 days a week. to think that you wont lose muscle at 6-800 cal a day is insanity unless your literally obese and can tap into some stored energy.

onetimehard i saw you say you eat 5lbs of chicken breast to diet. thats good but its only 2500 cal, and protein is used less efficiently for energy so you can subtract 20-30%. its not like you were eating 5000 cal of chicken breast.
This is precisely my point, eat unlimited amounts of protein cause at the end of the day it won't amount to much anyway and you will get shredded from the lack of carbs.   Wink
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evser
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« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2012, 12:42:57 PM »

ah i see what your saying lol
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« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2012, 04:28:26 PM »

I guess i cant knock it without trying it. but man even at 2000 cal im literally starving all day i think i would die at 800
X2.
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dj181
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« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2012, 05:02:02 PM »

X2.

i'm finally a legit "semi-dry" sub-8 now, and i did it by doing ZERO cardio and just eating "less"

i'm kinda shocked by this, coz i thought that cardio would be required to get this lean, but it's not

today i only had bout 800 cals, and i'll do the same thing tomorrow

and fuck it! i might as well go down to sub-6 now, but i just hope that my face doesn't get too hideously ugly in the process lol
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Mr Nobody
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« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2012, 05:17:59 PM »

i'm finally a legit "semi-dry" sub-8 now, and i did it by doing ZERO cardio and just eating "less"

i'm kinda shocked by this, coz i thought that cardio would be required to get this lean, but it's not

today i only had bout 800 cals, and i'll do the same thing tomorrow

and fuck it! i might as well go down to sub-6 now, but i just hope that my face doesn't get too hideously ugly in the process lol
800 is low man. What is the diet?
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dj181
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« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2012, 05:22:34 PM »

800 is low man. What is the diet?

2 meals as follows:

breakie: coffee with a bit of cream and sugar and a half of a ham and cheese sandwich

din-din: watered down powerade and 1 chicken sandwich or salami sandwich
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