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Author Topic: How much fish oil a day?  (Read 6014 times)
suckmymuscle
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2011, 12:11:52 PM »

are you saying we shouldn't take fish oil?

  Ok, since this statement of mine has caused so much controversy, here is the explanation for why you shouldn't eat fish oil:

  First of all, there is no absolute empirical evidence that the so-called EFAs are truly essential. Humans have been known to survive on diets that are close to zero on EFAs for years. Case in point: many people who surivie on junk food that are close to zero on linoleic and alpha-linolenic acid for years and, even though they become obese, they show no signs of serious EFA deficiencies such as encephalo-atrophy.

  Secondly, even if you need the EFAs, the body's needs are very, very, very small and it can make both linoleic as well as alpha-linolenic acids from oleic acid - which means they are not essential -, which is present in small amounts in many leafy and cruciferous vegetables. So if your diet is rich in vegetables, there is no need for EFAs in the diet.

  Thirdly, fish oil is extremely rancid. Whatever benefits you get from eating fish oil is offset by the increased infllammatory response, need for vitamin E and increased oxidative stress you get from eating fish oil. Eating lots of polynsaturated fats, like those found in fish oil, increase the markers of oxidative stress like hydrogen peroxide and superoxide anion. Eating the raw fat of fish that has just been taken of the ocean is one thing, but eating the rancid fat of fish that has been caught months ago and exposed to Oxygen for months is very bad for you. In conclusion: you should not eat fish oil. I hope I have clarified the issue for you.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Sudsville
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« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2011, 02:23:43 PM »

 Ok, since this statement of mine has caused so much controversy, here is the explanation for why you shouldn't eat fish oil:

  First of all, there is no absolute empirical evidence that the so-called EFAs are truly essential. Humans have been known to survive on diets that are close to zero on EFAs for years. Case in point: many people who surivie on junk food that are close to zero on linoleic and alpha-linolenic acid for years and, even though they become obese, they show no signs of serious EFA deficiencies such as encephalo-atrophy.

  Secondly, even if you need the EFAs, the body's needs are very, very, very small and it can make both linoleic as well as alpha-linolenic acids from oleic acid - which means they are not essential -, which is present in small amounts in many leafy and cruciferous vegetables. So if your diet is rich in vegetables, there is no need for EFAs in the diet.

  Thirdly, fish oil is extremely rancid. Whatever benefits you get from eating fish oil is offset by the increased infllammatory response, need for vitamin E and increased oxidative stress you get from eating fish oil. Eating lots of polynsaturated fats, like those found in fish oil, increase the markers of oxidative stress like hydrogen peroxide and superoxide anion. Eating the raw fat of fish that has just been taken of the ocean is one thing, but eating the rancid fat of fish that has been caught months ago and exposed to Oxygen for months is very bad for you. In conclusion: you should not eat fish oil. I hope I have clarified the issue for you.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Where are you getting these facts? Are you a dr.?  I have never heard of a doctor saying you shouldn't take fish oil, in fact they say you should.  I would rather live healthy than just survive.
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« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2011, 04:05:19 PM »

 Ok, since this statement of mine has caused so much controversy, here is the explanation for why you shouldn't eat fish oil:

  First of all, there is no absolute empirical evidence that the so-called EFAs are truly essential. Humans have been known to survive on diets that are close to zero on EFAs for years. Case in point: many people who surivie on junk food that are close to zero on linoleic and alpha-linolenic acid for years and, even though they become obese, they show no signs of serious EFA deficiencies such as encephalo-atrophy.

  Secondly, even if you need the EFAs, the body's needs are very, very, very small and it can make both linoleic as well as alpha-linolenic acids from oleic acid - which means they are not essential -, which is present in small amounts in many leafy and cruciferous vegetables. So if your diet is rich in vegetables, there is no need for EFAs in the diet.

  Thirdly, fish oil is extremely rancid. Whatever benefits you get from eating fish oil is offset by the increased infllammatory response, need for vitamin E and increased oxidative stress you get from eating fish oil. Eating lots of polynsaturated fats, like those found in fish oil, increase the markers of oxidative stress like hydrogen peroxide and superoxide anion. Eating the raw fat of fish that has just been taken of the ocean is one thing, but eating the rancid fat of fish that has been caught months ago and exposed to Oxygen for months is very bad for you. In conclusion: you should not eat fish oil. I hope I have clarified the issue for you.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Now this is alarming.
Everything I've read until now suggests that fish oils promote ANTI-inflammatory properties.

Is this due to its post-processing nature?
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suckmymuscle
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« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2011, 04:16:49 PM »


Now this is alarming.
Everything I've read until now suggests that fish oils promote ANTI-inflammatory properties.

Is this due to its post-processing nature?

  No, due to it's exposure to Oxygen. Polynsaturated fats like alpha-linolenic acid becomes electrically unstable(requiring electrons) once exposed to Oxygen and tries to become stable again, and it does that be stealing electrons from your cells. Thus, increased cell damage which results in inflammation and cell death(necrosis). But you are right: fresh polynsaturated fats are anti-inflammatory, unlike saturated fats which are terrible even fresh.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
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« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2011, 07:49:36 PM »

sucky, you are saying taking fish oil capsules are a waste of money?  SOme of us have taken it for years and it isn't cheap. Undecided

Can you share where you got info on this (was it a webpage?)..or if you are a researcher or something?
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« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2011, 08:08:40 PM »

 No, due to it's exposure to Oxygen. Polynsaturated fats like alpha-linolenic acid becomes electrically unstable(requiring electrons) once exposed to Oxygen and tries to become stable again, and it does that be stealing electrons from your cells. Thus, increased cell damage which results in inflammation and cell death(necrosis). But you are right: fresh polynsaturated fats are anti-inflammatory, unlike saturated fats which are terrible even fresh.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Does that pertain to all polyunsaturated fats?
I ask because there are demonstrated clinical differences between the effects of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and vegetable-based alpha-linolenic acid.

The Department of Medicine’s Cardiology Division at the University of Maryland-Baltimore conducted a pathology experiment to compare the effects of omega-3 and ALA on left ventricle remodeling and the anti-inflammatory response in rats.

The ALA subjects experienced negligible effects, while the omega-3 group demonstrated anti-inflammatory properties, decreased arachidonic acid in cardiac membrane phospholipids, and a prevention in left ventricular enlargement.

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suckmymuscle
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« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2011, 10:06:01 PM »


Does that pertain to all polyunsaturated fats?
I ask because there are demonstrated clinical differences between the effects of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and vegetable-based alpha-linolenic acid.

The Department of Medicine’s Cardiology Division at the University of Maryland-Baltimore conducted a pathology experiment to compare the effects of omega-3 and ALA on left ventricle remodeling and the anti-inflammatory response in rats.

The ALA subjects experienced negligible effects, while the omega-3 group demonstrated anti-inflammatory properties, decreased arachidonic acid in cardiac membrane phospholipids, and a prevention in left ventricular enlargement.



  Alpha-linolenic acid is an omega-3 polynsaturated fatty acid. It is the same thing. I don't think I really understand your query. Can you be clearer? Thanks.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
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« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2011, 05:49:42 PM »

 Alpha-linolenic acid is an omega-3 polynsaturated fatty acid. It is the same thing. I don't think I really understand your query. Can you be clearer? Thanks.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Sure.
What I’m asking is, do you think there could be a difference in oxidation among different sources of PUFA's?
Here's the study I mentioned that examined the differences between fish vs. plant: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19015135

It's a good, short read that got me thinking about the potential differences, being that ALA yielded no benefits while the fish oil did.
And, insofar as the demonstrated benefits, I doubt they conducted the study on a boat, using freshly caught fish as their source.
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« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2011, 10:33:59 PM »

So, whats the conclusion to this discussion? That fish caps are not needed on a diet?
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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2011, 10:22:48 AM »

I take krill oil...
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« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2011, 12:05:16 PM »

 No, due to it's exposure to Oxygen. Polynsaturated fats like alpha-linolenic acid becomes electrically unstable(requiring electrons) once exposed to Oxygen and tries to become stable again, and it does that be stealing electrons from your cells. Thus, increased cell damage which results in inflammation and cell death(necrosis). But you are right: fresh polynsaturated fats are anti-inflammatory, unlike saturated fats which are terrible even fresh.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Why is this even part of the discussion?  The question was about fish oil - EPA & DHA.   NOT ALA.



Does that pertain to all polyunsaturated fats?
I ask because there are demonstrated clinical differences between the effects of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and vegetable-based alpha-linolenic acid.

The Department of Medicine’s Cardiology Division at the University of Maryland-Baltimore conducted a pathology experiment to compare the effects of omega-3 and ALA on left ventricle remodeling and the anti-inflammatory response in rats.

The ALA subjects experienced negligible effects, while the omega-3 group demonstrated anti-inflammatory properties, decreased arachidonic acid in cardiac membrane phospholipids, and a prevention in left ventricular enlargement.

QFT

 Alpha-linolenic acid is an omega-3 polynsaturated fatty acid. It is the same thing. I don't think I really understand your query. Can you be clearer? Thanks.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

What does that have to do with EPA & DHA?  Just because it's "an omega-3" doesn't mean it's created equal.  ALA is not in fish oil.  




So, whats the conclusion to this discussion? That fish caps are not needed on a diet?

Draw your own conclusions.  With the dozens of scientific studies out there showing the efficacy of fish oil (the fact that big pharma wanted a piece says something),  evidence that it reduces inflamation, cholesterol, heart disease risk, sudden heart attack risk, beneficial for rheumatoid arthritis, and multiple neurological conditions, the answer should be clear  Wink


~BTW, this topic has NUMEROUS threads here over the years.
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suckmymuscle
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« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2011, 05:49:12 PM »

the answer should be clear

  It is.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Necrosis
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« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2011, 07:26:55 PM »

Fish oil is a potent anti-inflammatory, the literature speaks for itself. Claiming something increases need for anti-oxidants and therefore is bad is not a valid argument, inflammation is much more complex then that and proper nutrition would rectify the problem.

all kinds of healthy things create free radicals, overloaded anti-oxidants can alter the redox pathways towards increased oxidation. Since actually knowing your status is pretty impossible i would err on the side of the data. With respect to cardiovascular health fish oils provide benefits not seen with even medications in terms of prevention and reducing all cause mortality and post ischemic recovery.

i would ask anyone to provide data to back there points not some ill defined concepts that are not supported by the literature. The level of acceptable evidence on this board seems to be lacking lately, im not attacking anyone, im just saying we should be a bit more inquisitive.
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« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2011, 07:53:38 PM »

4 grams minimum
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Pure Alpha
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« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2012, 10:36:52 PM »

Fish oil is quite beneficiary for us in our routine life,I use 2-4 Tablespoons per day with great results.
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« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2012, 04:03:50 AM »

Fish oil is quite beneficiary for us in our routine life,I use 2-4 Tablespoons per day with great results.

really appreciate you resurrecting all of these old threads...  Roll Eyes
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Sudsville
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« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2012, 10:53:34 AM »

really appreciate you resurrecting all of these old threads...  Roll Eyes

A reminder what a jackass suckmymuscle was.
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Necrosis
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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2012, 01:43:10 PM »

A reminder what a jackass suckmymuscle was.

First warning, I only give out ten.
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El Diablo Blanco
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« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2012, 12:23:48 PM »

WW is right about this.  They say the oils are helpful, but are they testing bottled oils or fresh fish oils?  They point to eskimos and such in studies but they aren't eating processed oils in caps that have been bottled.  They eat fresh fatty fish.

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Borracho
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« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2012, 02:41:56 PM »

I've started taking cod liver oil instead of regular fish oil with the epa dha ratio of 180/120.

I read somewhere that it's actually better for ya but I can't to seem to remember why...wait maybe this shit ain't working  Undecided lol.
 

First warning, I only give out ten.

 Grin
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Princess L
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« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2012, 04:55:59 PM »

I've started taking cod liver oil instead of regular fish oil with the epa dha ratio of 180/120.

I read somewhere that it's actually better for ya but I can't to seem to remember why...wait maybe this shit ain't working  Undecided lol.
 
 Grin

High in vitamin A & D ~ good for winter or if you don't get much sun.
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« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2012, 05:59:05 PM »

8-10 grams daily is most affective.

I use 8.
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« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2012, 07:51:40 AM »

I only give out ten.

lol
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« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2012, 12:09:34 PM »

I hope no one is buying into the latest study on fish oil not being heart healthy.
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