is training with anything above casual-moderate intensity while natural a waste?

[NordicNerd]

since you have no hormones you cant make gains and are just wasting energy on fruitless endeavours ...

Bullshit. You can be fit without drugs, although you will never look like a pro. But as a natural you must train harder, not the other way around...

Nn

[anabolichalo]

Bullshit. You can be fit without drugs, although you will never look like a pro. But as a natural you must train harder, not the other way around...

Nn

dumbest statement every

[NordicNerd]

dumbest statement every

Just my personal experience. I looked my best when lifting 4 times a week and running 6 times a week.

NN

[njflex]

see that nycflex pics?

thats not possible naturally for most.

he benfits from former steroid usage a bit and from excellent frame and genetics.

but something bit thinner than that, thatll be the netural limit after years and years of training for the vest majority.


he is bigger than me when i go off, no doubt.

THANKYOU,,,after reading many of your post's about having an advantage whether it's 1 or few cycles of thickening size,weight,expanding, there is a definite difference in a long time 'clean ex user in shape or 'true 'natural...difference now is i stay lean 'clean'as opposed to natural bulk and smooth that ruins a drugfree lifter/bber look .if i used then i would just go for it ...i'm pleased at my current look condsidering age/day's training x4.diet,llifestyle 2 kids young,,,

[Donny]

THANKYOU,,,after reading many of your post's about having an advantage whether it's 1 or few cycles of thickening size,weight,expanding, there is a definite difference in a long time 'clean ex user in shape or 'true 'natural...difference now is i stay lean 'clean'as opposed to natural bulk and smooth that ruins a drugfree lifter/bber look .if i used then i would just go for it ...i'm pleased at my current look condsidering age/day's training x4.diet,llifestyle 2 kids young,,,

yes you lucky Bastard... lookin great.

[njflex]

yes you lucky Bastard... lookin great.

..THANKS

[mdn250]

see that nycflex pics?

thats not possible naturally for most.

he benfits from former steroid usage a bit and from excellent frame and genetics.

but something bit thinner than that, thatll be the netural limit after years and years of training for the vest majority.


he is bigger than me when i go off, no doubt.

I really like your posts they are great and lots of good info. I remember Dan Duchaine saying how once a guy who used gear for a decent amount of time (few years he might of said? nothing crazy) that gaining muscle and size,strength was always easier when they trained natural. I have noticed this to be true. I am by NO MEANS saying or claiming anything special...but I have just started training after years away and was curious on your opinion on that.

MDN

[mdn250]

yeah, as you may know, i never dreamt or had ambitions to get pro size, theres no point in that.my rolemodels for this sport are ppl like you, and hamdulah, bc they look good year round, and since decades.
i dont care for being big and bloofy all the time and then diet once every other year to look good for a couple weeks.
this way i can lead a normal life and often eat whatever i like, just in moderation.

i know i wont go places as far size goes with my approach, but if i can keep my shape and size till 50, ill be the happiest guy.

now, i think 1 cycle doesnt do much in the long term, for ppl who go clean afterwards.but couple cycles definitely give you an edge over lifetime naturals.hard to explain what it is, but its there.
thanks man.
yes, as said above its true.a friend is a pro and i knew him sinc his natural times.hes now off anything, no 250mg weekly either, since a year.and damn hes way bigger than when he was natural, and he puts much less effort into eating and training.

the only thing im unsure about is whats better for going clean later, high doses or low doses over long time.

i was rather the high doses guy.maybe the stronger one gets on juice the more he profits later on, or maybe the bigger one gets on juice,the more he profits later on.im not sure.

for later on, and in the long run, low doses over long times are hands down better.

I am on 200mg/week test cyp or 400mg/every other week whatever I want to do. My backround is heavy juicer from 18-24 and I stopped getting ready for shows and bodybuilding in general because I have severe Crohns Disease. Now don't get me wrong, the steroids themselves help that, BUT, the food, the stress, etc.. is hard. Imagine training and dieting 14weeks (not including the prep cost from the local LI guru you all hate offseason and precontest) and then going into a full flare and going into the hospital for 2weeks! I realized it wasn't to be...which is fine LOL. Since all the guys on LI I trained with or know are all burnt out or dead anyway. So I stopped training for awhile....got on a drug called Remicade for Crohns giving by IV infusion every 6-8weeks and knock on wood...I am doing well. So I started training again but due to the effects of the Crohns, the meds, and the past gear etc, my T-levels were like just sub200. So my doctor wrote it as 400mg every other week...I do 200mg/week.

I would love to have you honest opinion on what type of training you would reccomend for someone like me? While I do not have constant flares due to the Remicade..keep in mind I still have an immune system disease that cannot be cured. I have always followed Dorians split....4days per week. 2on 1off 2on, 2off. Chest/Bis....Back/Traps..Shoulders/Tris...Legs.
Do you think that is too much for natural? I know I know I am not "Natural" but you know what I mean as far as that situation versus when I was "ON" year round basically. Even after getting to the point where the Crohns put me in the hospital for 4weeks on TNF liquid IV nutriton...I was able to bounce back thanks to this new Remicade infusions. But muscle memory doesn't burn fat

Would 3days a week be enough? Push/Legs/Pull or Chest/Back, Legs, Shoulders/Arms.....Or would you think I could stay with that typical Dorian split? I want to give arms their own day since that has always been my weak part but that is near impossible on 3-4day split and probably not needed for my situation.

Any info would be appreciated.

MDN

Ps- I was the only once with Crohns Disease, I know Francois and Wheeler had Ulcerative Colitis, but call me crazy....I know seem to bump into people who ALWAYS know someone with it..bber, athlete, or just a regular relative. Somethings up LOL. I know the money is good...I get billed 18-19grand every 6-8weeks per Remicade infusions...insurance covers it...however, in order to do that I need a really good plan and pay 500-600 per month...but could be worse..Imagine living on Prednisone forever!!!!!!

[mdn250]

hey i just looked up what is crohns, keep in mind im no doc.

but if your doc has prescribed you 200mg weekly, thats fine id guess.

200mg weekly is i find, remarkably better than true natural.in your case, id jst forget about dosing higher, so did i btw.the run for size should be called off somewhere at age 30 anyway imo.

your dose is enough to maintain a god physique with some effort.this dosage wont make anyone a monster, but a nice body can be maintained on it.

to not put too much stress on your whole system, i wouldnt train an more frequently than 2 days on,1 day off, repeat.

as far diet goes, id eat what leaves you comfortable, but something as  close as possible to a bodybuilders diet.

how you split up the training is secondary, i do one bodypart a day, i feel this way i can focus on each bodypart in the best way.

i hate when i do split training, say shoulders and back, when i train my shouldrs first, they get a good training but am gassing out on the back part.

and when i do 2 bodyparts at once, its taxing my nervous system too much, i need very much dispropionate recovery times compared to one bodypart at once.

so yeah, its best to stay on that dose and be realistic, play around with your bodyweight, go from lean to bit bulk when you feel like, but dont expect to make huge gains in the future, rather "model" the body.

i had huge mental problem with this thought at first, i was the typical use everything in sight kind of person, but the difference to now was really just some 20lbs of muscle at best.

dont be affraid to train comparably light when you dont feel to strong on a particular day, i find light focussed training to be good to.

when not on a gramm of test or so weekly, its not possible to train very heavy every single workout, if you hit the gym 5 times a week.

i couldnt reply more indepht, as im off to work now, but ill do later on

THANKS! Great info man I appreciate it. I have never been in this situation before.  My Crohns is in remission and I can basically eat whatever I want...which as you know can be bad when your out of the gym

I know what you mean about the mental thing. I was on good doses for awhile. Nothing too crazy but since Palumbo wrote out all my stuff I followed the 1000gram test/whatever anabolic deca/eq was cheapest for 16on 4off repeat, except I never used orals because of my Crohns so I left those out.

I never expected to be anything special but after all that money and time put into prep and "BAM" the Crohns flared up, and to top it off I had pancreatitis from my gallbladder producing tiny stones over long periods of time....so they had to take out my gallbladder too..which increased the hospital stay. Now that is where the mental part hits you!

I am just glad I was smart enough to decide to not be an idiot and continue and maybe experience similar results. The infusions I get now..by theory...they work so well I probably would not flare...but come on, is it worth it?

The biggest thing though is I feel as far out of shape as I get, as far away from the gym I stay....I built a base that I never will lose. I mean obviously, that base is nothing to brag about, I wouldn't be back in the gym if I was happy with it but you know what I mean. But that mental part was still there and I stopped training for 4years. I did go back to boxing and jiujitsu though so I wasn't just sitting on the couch lol. just needed a break from bbing.

I honestly dont want to be on the HRT but I need it. My levels were way too low for 32yo. and Crohns takes a toll on my body even when its in remission your blood count is usually high and you get other symptoms...Most people say 200mg/week is doctor friendly dose but I never heard of less..maybe on Long Island since half the doctors are on gear they feel for you
I like your idea on basically just 'modeling' with what I have. I know I will gain some muscle back due to muscle memory, but I know its not going to be anything great.

I have never given arms their own day because I never trained more than 4days per week. So since I would never group big parts together I always put bis after chest or shoulders and tris after shoulders or chest. I wish I had thought different when I was on all those years and bombed my arms on their own day but even then I couldn't walk into the gym and do just arms...never felt right

MDN

[Donny]

I have Colitus Ulcerosa and in some ways it´s like Morbus Crohn, i think that´s what you have?

[chaos]

Sick fucks.

[mdn250]

I have Colitus Ulcerosa and in some ways it´s like Morbus Crohn, i think that´s what you have?

Crohns Disease is Crohns Disease. However, colitis can have a few types but usually the term colitis just refers to any inflamation ONLY in the colon..whereas Crohns can be anywhere in the digestive tract, from esophogus down to the colon. Treatments for severe flares of either are pretty much the same. Immune modulators, steroids if must, etc.

MDN

[Hulkotron]

I do 12-19 sets per workout.

I hope this information helps getbiggers with their physique / life goals.

[SF1900]

I do 12-19 sets per workout.

I hope this information helps getbiggers with their physique / life goals.

Same here. I do about 12-16 sets. I prefer high volume training.

[Donny]

Yes 30cm of my end Colon is infected and to be honest OK most of the time. I just shit more than most people and have to watch what i eat. I have times of bad Diaria and blood and then i have to take cortisone, salofalk.

[magikusar]

do you train with the strapin?

[dj181]

I do 12-19 sets per workout.

I hope this information helps getbiggers with their physique / life goals.

yeah, but how much can ya bench?

[chaos]

I thought of this thread the other day when I missed my rack pull.

[bass generator]

Crohns Disease is Crohns Disease. However, colitis can have a few types but usually the term colitis just refers to any inflamation ONLY in the colon..whereas Crohns can be anywhere in the digestive tract, from esophogus down to the colon. Treatments for severe flares of either are pretty much the same. Immune modulators, steroids if must, etc.

MDN

chrons and colitis fucking suck, I got colitis at 13 and it came back worse than ever at 21 spent 7 years tring to get it under controll before they found pre cancer cells had to have colon removed and had a sort of fake colon created with end of small bowel, best thing I done as for those 7 years training was a waste of fucking time.
Having read what you said do you feel the ilness,left you with low test? I never used but feel the ilness paticularly the stints on methotrexate have left me with pathetic test levels, olny have sex once a month ect all the symptoms of low test. Did you just go to doc and get the test perscribed?