is training with anything above casual-moderate intensity while natural a waste?

[chaos]

Not everyone has the cankles to support so much fat and bloat

Leave your mummy out if this.

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

you can also drink your own piss, but the quewstion is whether it makes sense

For muscle mass: No.

For Strength: Absolutely.

[polychronopolous]

For muscle mass: No.

For Strength: Absolutely.

Yes. I drink a half gallon pre workout. It gives me the strength of 17 billy goats

[Heywood]

stupid thread. 

If you want to grow you have to get intense.  You're not supposed to take drugs unless you are ill.

If you wanted to squat 350 x 20 you'd have to train with a lot of intensity.

And you can do so without drugs.

[Krankenstein]

exactly.

even on gramms of steroids, i dont see how anyone could squat 3 times a week full out with plenty volume.

steroids make you recover faster, but they make you much stronger, and thus, allow to train harder.the harder training effect needs more recovery time than steroids reducing recovery.

now, if some fatso "powerlifter" on gramms of gear is able to do 2 sets of squats on 3 diferent days in a week, lol, thats hardly the same thing.

dr dutch with his "advice" is also a blithering idiot

he clearly dont know what training hard is.

training hard is firstly being stronger than most naturals out there, so most natties cant even train hard bc lack of strenght in the first place.

training hard is when one benches 220lbs for 10 effortlesly.

at that strenght level and necesary recovery times, no natty in the world is gonna train hard 5 times a week, even if he has no job and gets to lay around home all day and night.

- I did the Russian Squat Routine but used it for deadlifts.  I trained 3x/wk...deadlift went from 485 to 565 by the end of 7wks.  Did I gain a lot of muscle...doubt it.  Strength yes.

- Has Dr. Dutch ever posted a pic?  I think I asked before if guys who advocate such minimal training would show us how well they look.  You know, the results should speak for themselves.

- I did bench 220x10 with relative ease.  Tore a pec benching 395.  Sucked balls...big time.  Heaviest dumbells ever used were 150's for 4 -5 reps.  That was BEFORE any HRT.  Again, I agree that I don't see how someone could train5x week with that kind of intensity and grow.  I don't think I am a freak, but I think 4x is just right.  I love the periodization thing for natural bodybuilding.  Its a mental thing to NOT constantly push the most weight every session.   The upside would be that your joints are destroyed by the time you are 40.

[Krankenstein]

stupid thread. 

If you want to grow you have to get intense.  You're not supposed to take drugs unless you are ill.

If you wanted to squat 350 x 20 you'd have to train with a lot of intensity.

And you can do so without drugs.

Probably the 2nd most retarded post on here.  PLEASE show us your video of 350x20.  The MOST I ever got was 315 x 17.  This was at my best.  Am I freak?  Nope.  But I have NEVER seen anyone that was natural with that weight x reps.  Oh, sorry..just you heywood

[Heywood]

Probably the 2nd most retarded post on here.  PLEASE show us your video of 350x20.  The MOST I ever got was 315 x 17.  This was at my best.  Am I freak?  Nope.  But I have NEVER seen anyone that was natural with that weight x reps.  Oh, sorry..just you heywood

Yes, 350x20 is impossible without drugs.  You did 315 x 7 and that is clearly the most anyone could possibly do without drugs.

I stand corrected.

Thanks.

[anabolichalo]

stupid thread. 

If you want to grow you have to get intense.  You're not supposed to take drugs unless you are ill.

If you wanted to squat 350 x 20 you'd have to train with a lot of intensity.

And you can do so without drugs.

well you probably can if you get obese and or use shit range of motion and or very long pauses between reps

[Heywood]

well you probably can if you get obese and or use shit range of motion and or very long pauses between reps

bro, I used to squat 350 in my garage without spotters using wooden squat racks, as a teenager, about 40 years ago.   I'm not fuckin' Hercules, but I put a hell of a lot of effort in my workouts and put on about 70 lbs. during my teenage/jr. high & high school years. 

There were a lot of guys stronger than me, but I was good at getting reps.

[Krankenstein]

Yes, 350x20 is impossible without drugs.  You did 315 x 7 and that is clearly the most anyone could possibly do without drugs.

I stand corrected.

Thanks.

Now that you know your place...

Again, why not show us how real men train then?  Because, by your standards I wasn't training hard enough or with enough intensity.

[Krankenstein]

bro, I used to squat 350 in my garage without spotters using wooden squat racks, as a teenager, about 40 years ago.   I'm not fuckin' Hercules, but I put a hell of a lot of effort in my workouts and put on about 70 lbs. during my teenage/jr. high & high school years. 

There were a lot of guys stronger than me, but I was good at getting reps.

Whoops, here we go again...the guy who knows guys that out-mass Dorian yates back in the day and they haven't taken any drugs.   

[Heywood]

Whoops, here we go again...the guy who knows guys that out-mass Dorian yates back in the day and they haven't taken any drugs.   

oh, fuck off.......

[Krankenstein]

oh, fuck off.......

Please tell us stories about the guys you know squatting...you know, the ones who can 20-rep 600lbs

[lvtolft]

Why would you go to the gym just to train with "moderate" intensity?
Does everyone without a good physique use being natural as an excuse?
If you going to go to the gym at all, make it worth your while.  Heavy or light, doesn't matter as long as it is intense.

[Heywood]

Please tell us stories about the guys you know squatting...you know, the ones who can 20-rep 600lbs

There was a very strong powerlifter at my gym who used to do about 430 x 10, strict, legit reps.  And very, very natural...as in anti-drug.

Hope this helps....

[Krankenstein]

There was a very strong powerlifter at my gym who used to do about 430 x 10, strict, legit reps.  And very, very natural...as in anti-drug.

Hope this helps....

Not really.  Is 430 x 10 considered very strong for a powerlifter?  How is someone very, very natural.  Do you really feel it was necessary to quantify that?  I mean, if he only very natural would he have gotten more or less reps?

[anabolichalo]

Whoops, here we go again...the guy who knows guys that out-mass Dorian yates back in the day and they haven't taken any drugs.   

basically

these guys live in a fake reality

[Heywood]

Not really.  Is 430 x 10 considered very strong for a powerlifter?  How is someone very, very natural.  Do you really feel it was necessary to quantify that?  I mean, if he only very natural would he have gotten more or less reps?

I meant "very" meaning "no bullshit."  I shouldn't have attempted to put a "grade" on it.  My apologies....these days "natural" has different meanings.  I should have said "drug-free."

[anabolichalo]

rating naturalness makes sense in the complex world we live in


where does one draw the line between sweet yams and hgh

[syntaxmachine]

Listen to this guy ,he knows what he's talking about.

Che, those manscaping skills are nothing to laugh at. There's always time for the "actually building muscle and not being a skinny-fat twink" component to fall into place at a later date.

[Krankenstein]

I meant "very" meaning "no bullshit."  I shouldn't have attempted to put a "grade" on it.  My apologies....these days "natural" has different meanings.  I should have said "drug-free."

Ok, so no use of "very very" next time.  You have been warned.

[Hulkotron]

Squat 350x20 with good form is a tremendous feat for a natural imho.

[Krankenstein]

Squat 350x20 with good form is a tremendous feat for a natural imho.

According to Heywood thats common place as long as you are very, very natural

[Heywood]

According to Heywood thats common place as long as you are very, very natural

this was my point:

"stupid thread.  

If you want to grow you have to get intense.  You're not supposed to take drugs unless you are ill.

If you wanted to squat 350 x 20 you'd have to train with a lot of intensity.

And you can do so without drugs."


I did not understand the point of the thread that you don't need to train that hard unless you were going to be on drugs.  But you've shown me how silly I am.  I realize now that 350 x 20 is clearly impossible.

I've apologized for the "very, very."  My point was this particular individual was not only clean, but very much against the use of drugs, as an AAU powerlifter.

[Krankenstein]

this was my point:

"stupid thread.  

If you want to grow you have to get intense.  You're not supposed to take drugs unless you are ill.

If you wanted to squat 350 x 20 you'd have to train with a lot of intensity.

And you can do so without drugs."


I did not understand the point of the thread that you don't need to train that hard unless you were going to be on drugs.  But you've shown me how silly I am.  I realize now that 350 x 20 is clearly impossible.

I've apologized for the "very, very."  My point was this particular individual was not only clean, but very much against the use of drugs, as an AAU powerlifter.

1) Who are you to say you aren't supposed to take drugs unless you are ill?

2) You claim that squatting 350 x 20 is obtainable with the right intensity AS WELL as can be a feat attained drug free.  I am asking you to prove it.  Obviously I was not training with the kind of intensity it takes to accomplish such a feat.  I have done 420 x 8, 315 x 17, 500 x 1.  No where close to 350x20.  I am sure someone could extrapolate the 1RM a 350x20 would be.

3) Doesn't matter if that person was or was not against drugs.  I was a lifetime drug free bodybuilder and I didn't care if someone took drugs, I just didn't feel it was right to do them and compete in the drug free shows I was doing (not like that stopped anyone).  Its not my place to tell someone what they can or can't put in their body.  I would assume your mystery friend likes football or baseball (if american).  If he is so against drugs, how does he feel knowing that these guys are pumped full of pain killers week in and week out so they can play "hurt" rather than be benched for being injured?

You really do seem to a tad beta.  I say that with all due respect.  Want to see an alpha response?

Hey Chaos...when the fuck you going to stop monkeying around with that P-90x workout and lift some real weights?